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? diabetes

Discussion in 'Health & Illness' started by NickyVN, Jan 8, 2009.

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  1. NickyVN

    NickyVN New Member

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    Hi. New here. I have 2 male pigs aged 2 1/2years. The one has always been very small compared to the other but has been very lively etc. He has started to drink loads - approx 500mls per day and is constantly at the bottle. He does eem to be drinking rather than mouting bottle as drank loads when I took the bottle off other day to clean it and put bowl in instead.He has now lost some weight too, is not very thin but definitely lost some - now weighs 680g, vet says body condition score of 3/9. He eats loads. He is still bright and active. We think he may be diabetic - vet couldn't find anything on clinical exam. Have collected a urine smple to take in today. He is fed on supreme selective, oxbow orchard grass and timothy hay and some fresh veggies - carrot, broccoli, kale, celery normally. Will post urine results when I get them but any idas anyone - don't want him to fade away. Is this diet OK, should I ask to try antibiotics? Thanks in advance
     
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  2. MemberX

    MemberX New Member

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    Hey welcome to the forum! :)

    I don't think antibiotics are the way to go they are only used to treat infections and also antibiotics can upset the gut and as he is small anyway you don't want him loosing weight.

    Drinking is a sign of diabetes but also some pigs can get a bit obsessive with their water bottles through stress or just something to do. I've known some pigs to do this with absolutely nothing wrong with them. You are right in getting him checked, keep us posted on how he is doing.

    Hope someone can advise on the diet, my pig are all quite young so not faced this yet. Perhaps a low calcium diet avoid Kale, carrots etc would help if he is diabetic. Not sure though.

    Good luck!

    Louise
    :)
     
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  3. MemberY

    MemberY New Member

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    I don't have any experience of having a guinea with diabetes but wanted to wish him good luck at the vets! It is wise to have him checked over and have his urine tested, although I believe a firm diagnosis of diabetes is difficult to gain from a piggy and so many things in their diet can affect the reading.

    Keep us posted!
     
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  4. Laura-CCC4

    Senior Guinea Pig

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    Welcome to the forum Nicky, though I am sorry it is under such circumstances as illness.

    Diabetes is tricky and diagnose in guinea pigs. The symptoms you describe are typical of diabetes, but obviously an accurate diagnosis must be made before treatment can commence. As diet influences the glucose level of the urine, urine tests can be inaccurate. If the glucose reading is off the scale at this time, the guinea pig should be put on a test diet - the limited content and length of time of which is very controversial. If the glucose level is still off the scale after the test diet, then diabetes becomes the strongest possibility. Diabetes is treatable in piggies, usually with Insulin Lente starting at the dose rate of 1 international unit (and testing to minimum effective dose). But I can't stress the importance of getting the diagnosis right in the first place.

    The diet sounds great, though the veggie side of it does need to be more varied. I think the sugar content of carrots is surprisingly high, if my memory serves me right, and the combination of high- calcium veggies (kale, carrots, spinach and parsley being the worst and most common offenders) with celery (which I think is high in oxalates) may increase the risk of bladder stones.

    If he is diabetic, a low-sugar diet is important. Peppers are a great food normally, but as they are high in sugars, they won't be as suitable for a diabetic animal. Coriander and lettuces are good staples as far as I am aware, both being low in sugars, and cucumber I think. I will do some more research on diets for diabetic piggies so I can give you a more thorough answer, if your piggie does indeed have diabetes.

    Good luck, let us know how he gets on. :)
     
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    Last edited: Jan 8, 2009
  5. NickyVN

    NickyVN New Member

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    not diabetic!

    Well he is definitely not diabetic. His urine was clear for glucose though was extremely dilute , it also had a trace of blood and protein. We are now thinking it may be kidneys as think there must be something wrong to get the weight loss, and also due to the blood in his urine. I am going to try him on antibiotics in case it is a kidney infection as don't know what else to try. Any ideas greatly appreciated.
     
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  6. MemberX

    MemberX New Member

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    If you try him on antibiotics I would get a pro biotic from your vet (bio lapis) as having antibiotics can stop them eating. Also I would get some critical care an syringes incase he stops eating so he can be syringe fed.
     
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  7. MemberY

    MemberY New Member

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    Which antibiotic has he been prescribed? baytril or septrin are the usual two; there aren't too many types they can have.
    The renal system in a guinea seems to be its weakest part and I think what your vet has suggested is the first thing to try.
    As Lou has said, do get some bip lapis pro biotic to give an hour or so AFTER giving the antibiotic. The AB will destroy good bacteria as well the any nasties and the pro biotic helps put some good flora back into the gut. They can go off their food especially with baytril so syringe feeding may be necessary if he stops eating. Oxbow critical care or science recovery are some that your vet should stock. The fact that he is drinking more will help at the moment as it can help flush out any nasties that may be there.

    I hope he will be ok!
     
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  8. NickyVN

    NickyVN New Member

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    Hi, thanks. He had is first dose of seprin last night and took it very well. I always have bio lapis in as my rabbit gets sticky bum from time to time. He seems fine this morning and was tucking into his breakfast, I will keep you informed on how he goes. Thanks everyone
     
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  9. MemberX

    MemberX New Member

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    Great news, hopefully it will clear up with the antibiotics. He should be fighting fit soon enough, he's only a babe really isn't he bless him! :)
     
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  10. Laura-CCC4

    Senior Guinea Pig

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    Spetrin is the best thing for infections along those lines. Hope he is feeling much better soon.
     
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  11. NickyVN

    NickyVN New Member

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    no better

    He has had 3 doses of septrin now but is still drinking as much as ever. Anymore ideas anyone?
     
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  12. NickyVN

    NickyVN New Member

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    no better

    Well he s going downhill. He has lost a further 400g and is very thin, and is now spending a lot of time hunched up and is not squeaking and bright like he used to be, he is now also not feeding well. He is not taking any dry food, just having bits of hay and mainly cucumber and carrot. He has had another good check of his mouth an his teeth are fine. We have given him an anabolic steroid to try to increase his apetite but I feel he is fading away. Any dieas for nice stuff to feed him that might get some weight on him.
     
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  13. Flossyfi

    Flossyfi New Member

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    Hiya
    Just picked up on this thread as my 2 1/2year old male pig, Oats, has exact same symptoms. He is drinking loads, lost loads of weight but is bright at present. Vet says problems with kidneys and nothing he can do. Seems strange as urine clear and only a little protein. What happened with your one, Nicky?
     
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  14. Laura-CCC4

    Senior Guinea Pig

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    Hi Fi, welcome to the forum. :)

    I'm sorry to hear your Oats has had some health problems. The symptoms do sound similar to those presented by diabetic guinea pigs, but the signs are also linked to kidney trouble, so it is possible that the problem is purely in the kidneys.
    What tests have been performed for Oats, other than urine tests?

    If you wish, you can make a thread for Oats at any time.
    I've not seen Nicky around for a while, but I do hope s/he'll reply with an update on the guinea pig concerned.
     
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  15. alcesterpigs

    alcesterpigs New Member

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    You wrote that he drinks 500ml of water per day. Did you mean 50ml?
    If it is 500ml, has he learnt how to swim!?
     
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  16. GuineaPigsRule

    GuineaPigsRule New Member

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    Hi i'm not sure wheather anyone still uses this site hopefully you do. I have 2 male guinea pigs and my story is basically the same as Nicky's but i will give you my guinea pigs infomation. My guinea pig called Arthur is very active and very sociable according to the vet as he has been tested and has been confirmed with bladder stones. He has had them for about 6months now and is still in pain. I give him metecam once a day but it doesnt have much effect. But lately i have seen him drinking alot of water i filled his bottle up half way (250ml i think) and by 9 hours it was all gone. can someone tell me if they think he might be diabetic or how to tell if he is without having to go to the vets.

    Thanks
     
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  17. GuineaPigsRule

    GuineaPigsRule New Member

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    Escuse me this is a serious issue if you were in his situation you would know that nicky's not going to be happy please if you are going to comment, comment about nice things not things which may upset other people
     
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  18. flintstones

    Senior Guinea Pig

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    This is an old thread - 2009 to be exact. Make a new thread for your pig.

    You need to go to the vet's to confirm diabetes -

    A urine Sample must be done - if Glucose are present. You must then immediately do a blood sample (pin prick behind the ear) if glucose are present again you can be 99% sure he has diabetes.
     
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