4th Match Failed= Devastated

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oxtinamona

oxtinamona

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It looks like the bonding I attempted today didn't work out. After a whirlwind of emotions and contradicting behaviours from our girl and the lovely new boy looks like I'm going to have to take him back to the rescue, which they do accept thank god.
Has anyone ever experienced a sow that rejected 4 other piggies ? She's the loveliest soul, but been bullied by her previous companion. We got a husboar for that other one, but now I'm losing hope... It's the 4th and another failure.

It's like she cannot bear the thought or concept of being mounted... The whole bonding today was shockingly confusing and dismissing every single thing anyone has every written. They were showing signs of acceptance or normal romantic behaviour to then see her snap in a dearth Vader mode immediately after they both cleaned each other in about 10cm distance... Etc etc... Every rule there is, this bonding broke it... I don't know what else to do. The rescue we now use which is more local cannot offer bonding service because they are a very poor rescue comparing to Woodgreen we used before... They're doing an amazing job with what they have, but bit enough volunteers to look after bonding process.. They will take him back as otherwise I wouldn't even start the process... I just didn't expect our girl will reject yet another boy... They're the same age, but he's about 1/4 smaller overall as not been spoilt with food to say ... They're get bare necessities in the rescue and that's it, as heartbreaking as it is. Please please can someone help or advise if this is normal or is she a lost cause? I know she misses company so much. She sniffling about our other couple all the time, she was so excited when she initially met the new boy.. It's just they cannot establish the dominance... But I can tell they like each other. Now they are just divided in the same bonding pen... And they're sleeping next to one another, but again she's got a cut in her lip, and I don't know how to interpret all the advices and articles I read when they say, it's done and dusted when blood is drawn and they have a real fight... What's the definition/ description of a real fight I don't know.. Squabble only or more? How much blood must be drown, how bad must be cuts be? All of that, I know all the theory but in practice it was nothing like it.
Is she neve allow a boy to mount her so they can settle ? Has anyone seen anything like it as all the rescue people who owned/own pigs for many years say they neve had any problems and it just breaks my heart ...
 
oxtinamona said:
It looks like the bonding I attempted today didn't work out. After a whirlwind of emotions and contradicting behaviours from our girl and the lovely new boy looks like I'm going to have to take him back to the rescue, which they do accept thank god.
Has anyone ever experienced a sow that rejected 4 other piggies ? She's the loveliest soul, but been bullied by her previous companion. We got a husboar for that other one, but now I'm losing hope... It's the 4th and another failure.

It's like she cannot bear the thought or concept of being mounted... The whole bonding today was shockingly confusing and dismissing every single thing anyone has every written. They were showing signs of acceptance or normal romantic behaviour to then see her snap in a dearth Vader mode immediately after they both cleaned each other in about 10cm distance... Etc etc... Every rule there is, this bonding broke it... I don't know what else to do. The rescue we now use which is more local cannot offer bonding service because they are a very poor rescue comparing to Woodgreen we used before... They're doing an amazing job with what they have, but bit enough volunteers to look after bonding process.. They will take him back as otherwise I wouldn't even start the process... I just didn't expect our girl will reject yet another boy... They're the same age, but he's about 1/4 smaller overall as not been spoilt with food to say ... They're get bare necessities in the rescue and that's it, as heartbreaking as it is. Please please can someone help or advise if this is normal or is she a lost cause? I know she misses company so much. She sniffling about our other couple all the time, she was so excited when she initially met the new boy.. It's just they cannot establish the dominance... But I can tell they like each other. Now they are just divided in the same bonding pen... And they're sleeping next to one another, but again she's got a cut in her lip, and I don't know how to interpret all the advices and articles I read when they say, it's done and dusted when blood is drawn and they have a real fight... What's the definition/ description of a real fight I don't know.. Squabble only or more? How much blood must be drown, how bad must be cuts be? All of that, I know all the theory but in practice it was nothing like it.
Is she neve allow a boy to mount her so they can settle ? Has anyone seen anything like it as all the rescue people who owned/own pigs for many years say they neve had any problems and it just breaks my heart ...
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Yes, sows like that can happen; I have currently 3 who are on the very last companion they tolerate, and as they are all between 4-6 years old (one companion is actually 8 years old) I dread what happens when the older companios die!

If you can get to Woodgreen, perhaps they might consider trying her with a baby girl (if they have any), so there is no discussion about dominance. Perhaps this could work? But it would best if you could try this via dating. otherwise, she may be happiest as a live-alongside piggy with her own territory but interaction through the bars.
 
Oh gosh... But she was the submissive one in previous ' pairing'... That's why we thought she'll be ok with a boar...I don't understand, it's very much beyond me sadly. Is so extremely sad.
 
Sorry that I can't specifically comment on sows as I have only boars but just wanted to say don't despair. Bonding can be really tough to watch but a good rescue will help you through. Just to give you some kind of hope (maybe) I have a boar Teacake and he took 12 dates to find another boar he could accept! But they are now inseparable. He seemed 'scared' of showing any submissive behaviour so always looked more aggressive than he really was. But the boar he accepted was tolerant without being a walk over and it just worked. All the best for your girl.
Just tagging @pig in the city as she has experience of sow and boar dating like Wiebke
 
Don't give up. Mollie was submissive to Mr Ted. When he died I dated her with a number of young neutered boars. She hated them all. She also hated an older NB and an older pair of sows. But she took a 10 week old baby sow under her wing and they are a fabulously well bonded pair.
 
Thank you all. This brings a bit of hope.. My intuition tells me she's acting exactly as @lauraboara described... Said she was scared to submit- I can tell she likes that little boy. It's a shame as the rescue in godmanchester doesn't have any neutered boars and hadn't for a while and all the ones they had she's rejected we can't take him back till Saturday anyway, so he'll be here. Do you think they stand a chance? I could keep putting them in the pen with the divider in for the afternoons and evenings and see what happens? He seems to come out of his shell when near her... It's so lovely to watch.. But she just won't submit and he, tho smaller than her is a strong character, yet delicate and gentle
 
I agree , a baby sow should work well for your grumpy girl. I have several grumpy girls and it took some time to find the right friend, so don't give up!
 
oxtinamona said:
Oh gosh... But she was the submissive one in previous ' pairing'... That's why we thought she'll be ok with a boar...I don't understand, it's very much beyond me sadly. Is so extremely sad.
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Some guinea pigs can be extremely particular in what they like and not. It can sometimes take quite a while and a lot of dating to find the right companion. The good news is that in the majority of cases, this is possible - but with either gender, you have got guinea pigs that can take 6 dates or more... :mal:

I am currently desperately trying to find a couple of baby girls or submissive young sows to help with another situation where that is the only option as the piggies involved have both major hangups (but I adopted them because of that).
 
I recently bonded my neutered boar with a rescue sow, they seemed pretty good together so off we went home. All was good until a week or so then he started dominating areas and beds, mounting her and just being a bully. The rescue suggested i took all beds out and just give them hay to sleep on. This made a big difference. I was tempted to take her back because i felt sorry for her and thought my boar was unable to pair as he had been dominant with other pigs. Thankfully i didnt and started to notice it was every couple of wks and realised its was her time of the month and she can be MOODY. We're about 3mths in now and my boar adores her and she has recently let him share her bed lol. They are both more chilled during her time of the month now. They make my heart melt :)
 
Thank you all. I just wish I could know for sure if what I have seen on 3-4 occasions yesterday was definitely a full on fight ...
 
Thank you all... It's all so tricky... I wish I knew for sure if what I saw 3-4 rimes yesterday was an actual fight; so I don't put them through it again
For some reason there are no videos or pics that could demonstrate it so there is clarity...
Do you all think that it is important to match piggies size wise rho? Especially with a girl like mine; who's been a bit bullied by prev cage buddy?
 
My experience is just with 2 sows, Mouse who is 5 lost her sister and cage mate about a month ago. Tried every rescue locally and no one had anything suitable to try and pair her with. She became very skittish and panicky and, although still eating well, I thought it in her best interests to try and find her a new friend myself. I found Patch, a 5/6 month old sow, who needed a new home. Things didn't start off too well - Mouse had been the dominant one in the old pairing and started off with all the text book dominance behaviour, but Patch (despite doing all the submissive behaviour) refused to let Mouse mount her and it caused quite a few scuffles. Patch got a bite on her rump that became an abcess, but I'm not sure if that counts as drawing blood as we completely missed the wound (there was no obvious evidence of it) until it popped a couple of days later. Anyway, the roles gradually reversed, Patch began to display more dominant behaviour ending up with her mounting Mouse, and Mouse accepting it. Patch is smaller by a good 120g. They are very close now - and a much happier pairing than Mouse ever was with her sister.
 
I have a doe now who was the most submissive thing with her sister and now is the dominant of the two with my new smaller rescue so maybe a younger sow would be the ticket
 
Oh these piggies are so confusing...
There aren't any sows in our local rescue
sadly...

I think we wil keep them in the play pen with the divider in as see what happens this afternoon/evening. He really sparks up when he sees her now, we put them back to mixing own yesterday eve after the bonding process but we put the divider in... She seemed interested. There was loads of rumbling and strutting etc, but I think they were both exhausted and eventually she fell asleep.
We will haven't keep him till Saturday anyway, as we can't get to the shelter before that so will try the slo approach and see what happens.

I doubt it'll change but may as well give it a shot As I don't think I'll make him fatter on space of 4 days

Poor boy. Breaks my heart we have to take him back ( definitely no space for 5th pig) .
He's so lovely and lovely character too and a feisty little thing



Cookies&Glitter said:
I have a doe now who was the most submissive thing with her sister and now is the dominant of the two with my new smaller rescue so maybe a younger sow would be the ticket[/QUO
Click to expand...
 
@Wiebke @pig in the city @annaa @VickiA

Good morning all, yet again I need a second opinion from experts. Week is coming to an end and we need to decide what to do with Biscuit (sow) and Larry( the rescue piggie boy) that we have tried bonding first on Monday. Since Monday we took a slow approach to bonding as we had nothing to lose as we won't be able to go to the rescue till tomorrow noon anyway. We thought we should try again, as perhaps miracles happen:nod:

We have put them in a clean bonding pen on Tuesday with a divider in. They got excited and loads of rumblestrutring was happening. After an hour or more we put them together without the divider. They didn't fight, and the feast of marking the area follows from both but especially the boy. He tried to mount her several times, but she wouldn't let him. She tried to mount him, but there's no way he'll aubmit. Now it is evident that she is not going to attack, as all he needs to do is to chatter his teeth and raise his nose/chin and she backs out.

On Wednesday we did the same. Same story except the teeth chattering became less and less and eventually he managed to mount her once and then she groomed him couple of times.

If I hadn't know their story and watched hem only on Tuesday and Wednesday I would have thought they're an actual bonded pair as apart from occasional little ' I'm annoyed show off' o didn't see any signs of aggression. They both popcorned a bit. Not a full on popcorning feast but they did. Also they cleaned themselves next to each other ( so much closer than on Monday, sometimes touching each other bums whilst cleaning) many many times.

Yesterday was the same, although he didn't manage to mount her and appeared a bit bored/uninterested of chasing her after few attempts ( they were together for about an hour only). THey we're eating from the same pile and she was licking his foot, but he's wary of her bum as she's sprayed it loads on Tuesday haha so he sometimes backs out.
The oddest thing towards the end of the session was that she looked like she realised that he's not interested and stared moving her bum toward him and his face as in to say ' go on hump me':cen: whilst he persisted to act uninterested she was getting more 'available' if that makes sense? He didn't though.
Overall since Tuesday there were no fights at all, few attempts of nips ( but biscuit just hasn't got the walk to support her 'talk' and he seems stronger character) but she always just fails at mounting him or attempting to even scare him.

When they don't chase each other around And 'power tripping' they say together, they make their happy little noises and popcorn a tad. So as you can imagine this is extremely confusing as I would imagine if they don't like each other this much they'd be still fighting ? Instead when I separated them yesterday Biscuit followed him( well me as I picked him up ) and started calling out for him ( I can't think what else that noise would represent otherwise as she had no other reason to call out like this. They used to do this 'calling ' with Ginger when younger and when we were picking one up for lap time...

What are your thoughts?to me it now looks like they like each other but cannot establish dominance but it hinders toward Larry winning very very slowly.perhaps because he's not full on with humping feast like other piggies were, he's not frightening her as much as other piggies ?

P.S. Can I upload a video from an apple product on here, so you guys can see the whole 'affair'? x
 
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I'm certainly no expert, but agree it sounds promising. It certainly took a while for the dominance thing to play out with my two girls, and it still isn't fully established - possibly because Mouse is a bit grumpy and Patch doesn't have the weight to throw around yet.
 
I have a sow and boar bonded pair and I honestly couldn't tell you who is in charge (I initially thought it was the boar but as they have settled in with us the sow has got her confidence much more). I have only seen him hump her a couple of times, when she has been in season I suspect as she turns into a harlot and pretty much reverses underneath him. They don't groom each other, they don't sleep together, they just hang out together in the same space. I suspect they are less of a "couple" than some pairs you get but they seem happy enough and I have never seen them fight, just the odd submission squeak when they both want the same thing.

I think it sounds pretty promising for your pair. Have you seen @Sian25 s thread with her introduction? That had a much more worrying sounding start but they got there in the end. I don't know how they are doing now though, i haven't seen an update recently.
 
It definitely sounds very promising. It would be better not to keep separating them as they kind of have to go back to square one as regards sorting out dominance when you reintroduce them.
I would put them together in the neutral area and keep them together until they have sorted themselves out (might be some time) before putting them back in their (neutralized) home. I think its definitely worth persevering.
 
@Tigermoth - I will definitely look at Sian25s story as haven't read it yet :nod:
@pig in the city - thank you. This certainly brings a bit of hope to my heart. I am biased so very hard to judge. I'm going to leave them together tomorrow whole day , as I was unable to do so during weekdays, due to work (silly work and silly bills to pay hahaha). I'm going to keep them there all day and see what happens and if no serious signs then I think we will move them into the cage and leave them there overnight...
 
oxtinamona said:
@Wiebke @pig in the city @annaa @VickiA

Good morning all, yet again I need a second opinion from experts. Week is coming to an end and we need to decide what to do with Biscuit (sow) and Larry( the rescue piggie boy) that we have tried bonding first on Monday. Since Monday we took a slow approach to bonding as we had nothing to lose as we won't be able to go to the rescue till tomorrow noon anyway. We thought we should try again, as perhaps miracles happen:nod:

We have put them in a clean bonding pen on Tuesday with a divider in. They got excited and loads of rumblestrutring was happening. After an hour or more we put them together without the divider. They didn't fight, and the feast of marking the area follows from both but especially the boy. He tried to mount her several times, but she wouldn't let him. She tried to mount him, but there's no way he'll aubmit. Now it is evident that she is not going to attack, as all he needs to do is to chatter his teeth and raise his nose/chin and she backs out.

On Wednesday we did the same. Same story except the teeth chattering became less and less and eventually he managed to mount her once and then she groomed him couple of times.

If I hadn't know their story and watched hem only on Tuesday and Wednesday I would have thought they're an actual bonded pair as apart from occasional little ' I'm annoyed show off' o didn't see any signs of aggression. They both popcorned a bit. Not a full on popcorning feast but they did. Also they cleaned themselves next to each other ( so much closer than on Monday, sometimes touching each other bums whilst cleaning) many many times.

Yesterday was the same, although he didn't manage to mount her and appeared a bit bored/uninterested of chasing her after few attempts ( they were together for about an hour only). THey we're eating from the same pile and she was licking his foot, but he's wary of her bum as she's sprayed it loads on Tuesday haha so he sometimes backs out.
The oddest thing towards the end of the session was that she looked like she realised that he's not interested and stared moving her bum toward him and his face as in to say ' go on hump me':cen: whilst he persisted to act uninterested she was getting more 'available' if that makes sense? He didn't though.
Overall since Tuesday there were no fights at all, few attempts of nips ( but biscuit just hasn't got the walk to support her 'talk' and he seems stronger character) but she always just fails at mounting him or attempting to even scare him.

When they don't chase each other around And 'power tripping' they say together, they make their happy little noises and popcorn a tad. So as you can imagine this is extremely confusing as I would imagine if they don't like each other this much they'd be still fighting ? Instead when I separated them yesterday Biscuit followed him( well me as I picked him up ) and started calling out for him ( I can't think what else that noise would represent otherwise as she had no other reason to call out like this. They used to do this 'calling ' with Ginger when younger and when we were picking one up for lap time...

What are your thoughts?to me it now looks like they like each other but cannot establish dominance but it hinders toward Larry winning very very slowly.perhaps because he's not full on with humping feast like other piggies were, he's not frightening her as much as other piggies ?

P.S. Can I upload a video from an apple product on here, so you guys can see the whole 'affair'? x
Click to expand...

To be honest, it sounds perfectly par for the course. they have sorted out who comes top. Sows don't like having their bums assaulted when not in season, but they are not above teasing, especially when they are not far off. The sign of a well practised husboar is that he will bum sniff very cautiously in expectance of a well aimed water grenade. :)

Please move them in together and let them sort out the small print of their bonding contract over the next weeks as they go along. Just make sure that for the next few days until she's had her first lively season all hideys have two exits.
 
@Tigermoth - do you know what is the title of the post by Sian25 that describes the bonding experience she had? I went through a few but none of them seems to be the right one? Thank tou
 
@Wiebke really? Do you think this is normal?
Wow, that is all so encouraging. I wasn't sure because there wasn't that much humping and bumping attempts going on ... I thought, and evidently was wrong, that they need to 'hump to triumph' and that establishes who is who... So do you think we should put them together and leave them together whilst observing closely? X
 
Hi @oxtinamona the posts about Effie and milans behaviour are quite far into that thread. It's been almost a month now and the nipping has decreased but she does still nip and often won't let Milan into the same hidey as her (it's just a kids stepping stool so plenty of space and exits). I'm not experienced with bonding so worried myself that they may not be happy together. I'm not sure so persevering
 
Thank you @Sian25 I'll definitely read it later, atm I out these naughty pigs back in the pen and after a successful mounting session by the boy she's turning into a friggin' princess again and started chattering teeth after 2 days of not doing so and also was kinda launching her mouth at him. Tough luck for her as he may be smaller
But he's not scared of her. I just wish it settled either way, I'm exhausted. She's changing her attitude like wind direction. :mal::mal::mal::mal:
Oh here's a thought - I'll just swap her for the boy and she can taste th

Oh my days, she's just got jealous because I gave boy a stroke !

Oh for crying out loud she's just got really jealous as i was stroking the boy! That says it all=spoilt
 
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@Sian25 I've just finished reading your thread about Milan and Effie and I'm so grateful that @Tigermoth advised me of it.

This was the best demonstration of piggie behaviours I've seen and your descriptions were great and details and I could really relate. I can honestly say that what I'm observing now with these two pigaroos is very very similar to your experience.
The first day was definitely worst and horrific but as read your post further and watched the video I just kept saying to my partner that your piglets were acting so similar to ours.

Everyone's advice on there was also excellent. Thank you all again. I dare to now think / hope that there is a light at the end of the tunnel for our piggies too and we've decided to keep them together overnight for the first time. They've been in a mixing pen since approx 5pm. Now having read the love story of effie and Milan I'm 'ALMOST' OK with leaving them here alone and going to bed :zzz::bye:
They've just had a massive chasing / rumble/popcorning ( piggy twerking:P)/mounting session - hopefully that will be enough for them to sleep.

More update tomorrow-hopefully all will be good
 
oxtinamona said:
@Sian25 I've just finished reading your thread about Milan and Effie and I'm so grateful that @Tigermoth advised me of it.

This was the best demonstration of piggie behaviours I've seen and your descriptions were great and details and I could really relate. I can honestly say that what I'm observing now with these two pigaroos is very very similar to your experience.
The first day was definitely worst and horrific but as read your post further and watched the video I just kept saying to my partner that your piglets were acting so similar to ours.

Everyone's advice on there was also excellent. Thank you all again. I dare to now think / hope that there is a light at the end of the tunnel for our piggies too and we've decided to keep them together overnight for the first time. They've been in a mixing pen since approx 5pm. Now having read the love story of effie and Milan I'm 'ALMOST' OK with leaving them here alone and going to bed :zzz::bye:
They've just had a massive chasing / rumble/popcorning ( piggy twerking:P)/mounting session - hopefully that will be enough for them to sleep.

More update tomorrow-hopefully all will be good
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Good luck! Keep us updated!
 
Also as you've brought up my thread, I decided to watch those videos again and I can honestly say that I forgot how bad it was between them initially. I know it's quite normal but it's horrifying to watch back! They do still nip (particularly Effie) but it's nothing like those videos now and they have both settled down a lot. It's mainly when Milan tries to get in the same hidey as her (even open ended ones) and the nips aren't jumpy like in the video, so there is hope. Wait it out :) I know it's hard though, good luck
 
@Sian25 , indeed it's very hard. Mine definitely started off far worse than your furry gorgeousness did... biscuit (princess) doesn't nip the boy though.. So although similar slightly different behaviours... Still after reading it and spending whole afternoon and evening in the kitchen watching them I feel pretty much ok now being in bed and not half as worried as I was past this week. The worst decision is always to take back the animal you had at home already and I'll feel horrible if we will be forced to do it, should it all go downhill (fingers X it won't ), as no room for 5th piggie sadly (otherwise I'd have a herd no doubt).
How are Effie and Milan doing now? X they're so lovely. Your boy is a solve agouti isn't he? Our new boy is lemon agouti. Love them -they look like combination of a wild bunny, doe, baby Joey and a koala- melts my heart.
 
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