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Accidental or Vet incompetence?

Helen 1986

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
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Hello All,

Bit of a sad post today. We lost our boy Link yesterday evening when he had to be put to sleep :( I was away for most of the week and my other half feels dreadful as it happened on his watch. He is also incredibly angry at what he views as a catalog of errors made by our vets. I was hoping for some opinions on whether you believe it was just a horrible thing to happen or whether our vets made some huge errors in judgement in which case we plan to educate them. Breakdown of events below to simplify:

Wednesday 20th Feb - Husband goes to do evening feed, Link eats one piece of parsley very slowly and turns his nose up at the rest, immediately ringing alarm bells. Husband notices breathing is not normal. Each breath is taken with a body throb. Husband phones emergency vets and then rushes him there. Vets find abscess on the left hand side of the jaw, not huge but very painful. Vets dose him up with Metacam and Baytrill and provide critical care to cover the night with feeds every three hours . Husband does feeds throughout the night with no real issues, Link takes it with little to no fuss.

Thursday 21st Feb - Take Link to normal vets. They say it's not urgent and can wait for a week. Husband argues and they offer Monday 25th. Husband asks for other vets in the area or recommendations to get him surgery sooner to remove abscess. Vets suddenly find free appointment for Friday 22nd Feb. Link still not eating and now doesn't like the new formula from normal vets and they have no other alternative. Force feeding resumes in earnest. No change in breathing, still throbbing with each breath and when Metacam wears off he squeaks with every breath, clearly in pain. Vets give him another shot of painkillers and antibiotics and give husband doses for syringes to see him through next 24 hours.

Friday 22nd Feb - Link taken to vets for 10:30am for surgery. No news until i phone at 15:50. Told surgery went well and now waiting for him to come around. Vets phone at 16:30 to ask collection time is moved from 17:30 to 18:00, told he is coming around well and surgery was a success. Lots of pus came out of the abscess which is why he was in so much pain. 18:00 arrive to collect Link. Told he is not doing well at all, breathing still an issue and he is not coming around from GA well at all. Told to rush him ourselves to emergency vet for overnight cover. Rush to emergency vets with Link 20 mins drive away. Vet asks to do a chest xray as she is concerned about the breathing. Advised that the xray our normal vets took of the abscess was not useful as didn't actually capture much of the area or the lungs (despite him being under GA at that point). They get him on Oxygen and warm him up in the meantime. Chest Xray done, fluid found on the lungs plus air in the stomach from gulping while breathing and has probably been there since breathing issue was originally spotted Wednesday night. Vet also found a significant amount of additional pus in the wound which had allegedly been cleared out two hours prior during surgery. Vet recommends he is put to sleep as they don't have the drugs needed to help clear the lungs and cannot get them till Monday. Other alternative was chest tap, oxygen and warmth all night with stomach massage to try and keep things going. Also told that the abscess was likely very deep and affected the lymphatic system and would probably become Chronic. My Husband and i decided it would be kinder to him to put him to sleep given everything he has already been through and the guidance from the vet.

My Husband is mainly furious that the breathing issue has been reported right from the get go and it took the 5th vet we saw to recommend a chest xray. In your experience, was it already too late to do anything on Wednesday night? Could the 24 hour delay in operating have worsened his condition? He was four and a half years old, a good weight and an otherwise healthy guinea pig. He did have a tilt which they put down to neurological problems but other than a small seizure last year it rarely effected him.

We have had several guinea pigs before and i must admit i think Link was our last. I don't think my heart can cope with loosing any more, especially when they hide it so well in the first place :(

Many thanks for any advise/guidance you can provide. I can understand why the other half is very angry. Myself, i'm just very sad that we lost a valued member of our family and he went through so much suffering before he could finally have his long sleep :(

Helen xx
 
I’m so sorry for your loss, especially such a traumatic one of surgeries and vet visits. The thing is... when we have all the benefits of hindsight and the full story yes there are things that weren’t spotted and things that don’t add up. On the other hand, vets take an oath to do their best to preserve life (I don’t know the exact wording) and it’s likely they did the best of their abilities.

It is natural in such an event to seek answers (often we find owners looking at what they should’ve done when piggies suddenly pass etc) but in the case of 5 vets visits, I can see why you would’ve expected them to save your piggie. What I mean is, as part of grief we seek answers, we want to apportion blame, relieve our guilt as owners, parents, family members, friends (whomever we lose, pig or human).

I don’t think we on this forum can say if the vets did wrong - we weren’t in the operating room etc. If you can come to terms with the loss, it may be easier to do so than serking answers.

I say this as someone who years ago used to deal with health service complaints - in the tragic cases of losses people seek answers - sometimes endlessly pursuing doctors for years, never grieving. Fair, sometimes mistakes are made, vets or human doctors, but more often than not professionals involved did their best.

Rest easy piggie. Be kind to yourself.

Hugs
 
Hello All,

Bit of a sad post today. We lost our boy Link yesterday evening when he had to be put to sleep :( I was away for most of the week and my other half feels dreadful as it happened on his watch. He is also incredibly angry at what he views as a catalog of errors made by our vets. I was hoping for some opinions on whether you believe it was just a horrible thing to happen or whether our vets made some huge errors in judgement in which case we plan to educate them. Breakdown of events below to simplify:

Wednesday 20th Feb - Husband goes to do evening feed, Link eats one piece of parsley very slowly and turns his nose up at the rest, immediately ringing alarm bells. Husband notices breathing is not normal. Each breath is taken with a body throb. Husband phones emergency vets and then rushes him there. Vets find abscess on the left hand side of the jaw, not huge but very painful. Vets dose him up with Metacam and Baytrill and provide critical care to cover the night with feeds every three hours . Husband does feeds throughout the night with no real issues, Link takes it with little to no fuss.

Thursday 21st Feb - Take Link to normal vets. They say it's not urgent and can wait for a week. Husband argues and they offer Monday 25th. Husband asks for other vets in the area or recommendations to get him surgery sooner to remove abscess. Vets suddenly find free appointment for Friday 22nd Feb. Link still not eating and now doesn't like the new formula from normal vets and they have no other alternative. Force feeding resumes in earnest. No change in breathing, still throbbing with each breath and when Metacam wears off he squeaks with every breath, clearly in pain. Vets give him another shot of painkillers and antibiotics and give husband doses for syringes to see him through next 24 hours.

Friday 22nd Feb - Link taken to vets for 10:30am for surgery. No news until i phone at 15:50. Told surgery went well and now waiting for him to come around. Vets phone at 16:30 to ask collection time is moved from 17:30 to 18:00, told he is coming around well and surgery was a success. Lots of pus came out of the abscess which is why he was in so much pain. 18:00 arrive to collect Link. Told he is not doing well at all, breathing still an issue and he is not coming around from GA well at all. Told to rush him ourselves to emergency vet for overnight cover. Rush to emergency vets with Link 20 mins drive away. Vet asks to do a chest xray as she is concerned about the breathing. Advised that the xray our normal vets took of the abscess was not useful as didn't actually capture much of the area or the lungs (despite him being under GA at that point). They get him on Oxygen and warm him up in the meantime. Chest Xray done, fluid found on the lungs plus air in the stomach from gulping while breathing and has probably been there since breathing issue was originally spotted Wednesday night. Vet also found a significant amount of additional pus in the wound which had allegedly been cleared out two hours prior during surgery. Vet recommends he is put to sleep as they don't have the drugs needed to help clear the lungs and cannot get them till Monday. Other alternative was chest tap, oxygen and warmth all night with stomach massage to try and keep things going. Also told that the abscess was likely very deep and affected the lymphatic system and would probably become Chronic. My Husband and i decided it would be kinder to him to put him to sleep given everything he has already been through and the guidance from the vet.

My Husband is mainly furious that the breathing issue has been reported right from the get go and it took the 5th vet we saw to recommend a chest xray. In your experience, was it already too late to do anything on Wednesday night? Could the 24 hour delay in operating have worsened his condition? He was four and a half years old, a good weight and an otherwise healthy guinea pig. He did have a tilt which they put down to neurological problems but other than a small seizure last year it rarely effected him.

We have had several guinea pigs before and i must admit i think Link was our last. I don't think my heart can cope with loosing any more, especially when they hide it so well in the first place :(

Many thanks for any advise/guidance you can provide. I can understand why the other half is very angry. Myself, i'm just very sad that we lost a valued member of our family and he went through so much suffering before he could finally have his long sleep :(

Helen xx

HUGS

I am ever so sorry!

Heaving breathing is always a serious symptom; in most cases it is a sign of fluid in the lungs or chest cavity. Unfortunately because of the abscess (which is serious in its own right), this has been pushed to the back, likely as a potential side effect. Weighing up symptoms correctly is not always quite easy, especially when the picture is somewhat confusing. Vets are also only humans trying do their best; they are not superhumans getting it always absolutely right from the word go. A scan of the chest area is not necessarily part of the procedure.
It is in my experience also much easier to see where mistakes have been made in hindsight than when you are in the middle and have to thread your way through a confusing maze.

Anger is a normal reaction, especially when things have gone horribly wrong. Soul searching and feeling guilty is the other more common reaction that we all go through after the loss of a beloved piggy; depending on the circumstances this can be much stronger. The need to make sense is often very great after experiences like yours.

Unfortunately you often only find out which vets are really good or not so good through experiences like these, which come with a hefty emotional price, as I know myself from having made that journey and having lost piggies of mine, too. You can't sadly go back and save Link; you can only pay these harsh lessons forward to the benefit of other piggies or pets. Vet care has made large strides in terms of guinea pigs in the last decade, but it doesn't mean that all vets are equally good and experienced, that they get it always right; guinea pig specialists are rare and still learning, too. :(

Not every vet is all that familiar with guinea pigs and their peculiarities. Unfortunately since we don't know which country/part of which country you are in we can't help you on that score. Because of experiences like yours, we have tried to build up a recommended UK vet locator based on member experiences and recommendations to help cut short the odyssey and minimise the cost of suffering.
We can of course not go and vet the hundred of UK vets (or the thousands of vets all over the world) for their piggy-savviness (AND keep the database updated when vets move around although we try our best to keep up with the best piggy vets in the country), so any attempts are by their very nature patchy and incomplete.

Please try to not let Link's unhappy illness and death overshadow the way you are going to remember him. Try to create a positive memorial and try to regain all the wonderful and precious things you have shared, whether that is a photo album or a diary of memories, big and small as they come to your mind. You are also welcome to post a tribute in our Rainbow Bridge if it feels right for you at some point; the section is there for those that want to make use of it at any stage of the grieving process.

Give yourself time to grieve and heal; you cannot hurry that on. If you and your husband struggle or feel the need to vent, a pet bereavement line can be of great help. The best thing you can do is to talk about your feelings.
Looking After A Bereaved Guinea Pig (also includes tips and links for owners' grieving support)
 
I am so sorry you have lost Link. I have no experience to comment on your vets treatment. You have experienced a dreadful loss of your beloved piggie despite all your efforts. Sending you hugs x
 
Thank you all for your kind words and thoughts, it really does mean a lot. I will share this with my husband later this evening so he can read through the responses himself and process everything.

It’s so very painful to loose these beautiful, funny, unique little creatures and in hindsight I know I always feel that there was more that could have been done, both from myself and the vet. I won’t name the vets involved here as some of the care he received was excellent, as for the rest I may ask for his records and do some digging myself to see whether there are areas that could be improved upon.

We are a military family and used to take all our piggies to Vedra when we were in that area. Perhaps we should have taken more time to find a more cavvy savvy vet in our new area. In the meantime I have said a prayer for Link, as I have done for those others we have lost: Go now to the summer lands my friend, and there grow young again as you await the turning of the wheel, blessed be. With any luck he is with our others now, hogging all the parsley and poppcorning to his hearts content.

Thank you again all, responses were very much appreciated **hugs**

Helen xx
 
I am really sorry for your and your husbands loss. A friend once told me something I will share with you and I hope it helps.. we had lost one of our girls in horrible circumstances :(
They told me, the final days or moments Of someone’s or our pets life do not define their life - it is the love within it. Reading your post it is plain to see that Links life was full of love and he must’ve had a great one.

huge hugs, be kind to yourselves. So very sorry for your loss X
 
Thank you all for your kind words and thoughts, it really does mean a lot. I will share this with my husband later this evening so he can read through the responses himself and process everything.

It’s so very painful to loose these beautiful, funny, unique little creatures and in hindsight I know I always feel that there was more that could have been done, both from myself and the vet. I won’t name the vets involved here as some of the care he received was excellent, as for the rest I may ask for his records and do some digging myself to see whether there are areas that could be improved upon.

We are a military family and used to take all our piggies to Vedra when we were in that area. Perhaps we should have taken more time to find a more cavvy savvy vet in our new area. In the meantime I have said a prayer for Link, as I have done for those others we have lost: Go now to the summer lands my friend, and there grow young again as you await the turning of the wheel, blessed be. With any luck he is with our others now, hogging all the parsley and poppcorning to his hearts content.

Thank you again all, responses were very much appreciated **hugs**

Helen xx

You can find our recommended vet locator on the top. Recommended Guinea Pig Vets
 
I am only part way through reading but just had to pause so I could say a big well done to your husband for standing firm and getting a very quick follow up appointment.

“Thursday 21st Feb - Take Link to normal vets. They say it's not urgent and can wait for a week. Husband argues and they offer Monday 25th. Husband asks for other vets in the area or recommendations to get him surgery sooner to remove abscess. Vets suddenly find free appointment for Friday 22nd Feb.”

Bravo to that man, I am sorry for the loss of Link but thanks to your husbands actions I really think he gave him the best chance! It’s just unfortunate that things did not work out as hoped.
 
I'm so sorry for your loss. It sounds as though you did everything your could for your little guy, getting him seen promptly, making sure he got a quick appointment, etc. Unfortunately, it's so much easier to figure out what's going on in hindsight than in the moment. Guinea pigs can't tell us what hurts, can't tell us what the problem is, and are pros at hiding symptoms. It's to their benefit to do so in the wild, not so much in captivity. Both respiratory difficulties and dental abscesses are serious issues (I've lost pigs to both in spite of care.) Anesthesia is hard on pigs as well. I think it's really normal to second-guess and wonder what could have been done differently... unfortunately there's no way to know for sure. I've also had an experience where I wonder if my pig would have survived with a different vet... again, there's no way to know, and I have to accept that I did the best I could for her and, unfortunately, it didn't work out the way I would have hoped. ((HUGS)) and I'm so sorry once again.
 
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