Advice on bleeding

[LucyP]

Hi all

I have two pigs- betty and winnie both rescue pigs less than a year old. I got them in mid October and have since treated them for fungal infection (all clear now) and more recently a respiratory infection which the vet (beaumont animal hospital London) felt was lower respiratory. Winniehas been on doxycline and metacam for that for about 2 weeks now. Betty showed fewer signs of respiratory illness but over Xmas made some hooting noises so the vet advised we start her on AB for that too. Both currently doing very well in terms of eating pooing and weight and no signs of illness at the moment but we’re continuing the AB for both until a check up this coming Thursday.

Today we spotted what looks like blood on the hammock. We hi i there might be more wee than normal but can’t be sure. Just checked them both over and dabbed their feet and bodies with kitchen roll to see if it was coming from paws etc but no sign of injury or issues. They are black abys and quite fluffy so hard to see!

Does anyone have any thoughts on what this might be?

big thanks
Lucy

 

[LucyP]

Hi all

I have two pigs- betty and winnie both rescue pigs less than a year old. I got them in mid October and have since treated them for fungal infection (all clear now) and more recently a respiratory infection which the vet (beaumont animal hospital London) felt was lower respiratory. Winniehas been on doxycline and metacam for that for about 2 weeks now. Betty showed fewer signs of respiratory illness but over Xmas made some hooting noises so the vet advised we start her on AB for that too. Both currently doing very well in terms of eating pooing and weight and no signs of illness at the moment but we’re continuing the AB for both until a check up this coming Thursday.

Today we spotted what looks like blood on the hammock. We hi i there might be more wee than normal but can’t be sure. Just checked them both over and dabbed their feet and bodies with kitchen roll to see if it was coming from paws etc but no sign of injury or issues. They are black abys and quite fluffy so hard to see!

Does anyone have any thoughts on what this might be?

big thanks
Lucy

PS i checked the poos and can’t see any blood

 

[Sophie B]

First question, it may sound silly, but have they had beetroot recently? Sometimes I think my piggies are dying but it turns out I fed beetroot earlier that day
Can you put them separately in a clear tub and wait unitl they pee to see if it is in their urine?

 

[LucyP]

Sorry- just to add that we’re putting them in a carbon box with clean kitchen roll to check what their wee and poo is like. So far Betty has done wees and poos and no sign of anything unusual. Winnie is now I’m a clean box of her own so we can check her wee and poo.
Thanks!

 

[LucyP]

First question, it may sound silly, but have they had beetroot recently? Sometimes I think my piggies are dying but it turns out I fed beetroot earlier that day
Can you put them separately in a clear tub and wait unitl they pee to see if it is in their urine?

Thanks Sophie. Cross over messages!

They had a tiny bit of beetroot (about 2 of those tiny sticks in a salad) about 4 days ago but since then only green veg apart from carrot peeling and a tiny bit of butternut squash tonight.

thanks v much for replying

 

[Wiebke]

Hi all

I have two pigs- betty and winnie both rescue pigs less than a year old. I got them in mid October and have since treated them for fungal infection (all clear now) and more recently a respiratory infection which the vet (beaumont animal hospital London) felt was lower respiratory. Winniehas been on doxycline and metacam for that for about 2 weeks now. Betty showed fewer signs of respiratory illness but over Xmas made some hooting noises so the vet advised we start her on AB for that too. Both currently doing very well in terms of eating pooing and weight and no signs of illness at the moment but we’re continuing the AB for both until a check up this coming Thursday.

Today we spotted what looks like blood on the hammock. We hi i there might be more wee than normal but can’t be sure. Just checked them both over and dabbed their feet and bodies with kitchen roll to see if it was coming from paws etc but no sign of injury or issues. They are black abys and quite fluffy so hard to see!

Does anyone have any thoughts on what this might be?

big thanks
Lucy

Hi!

You may want to have your girl vet checked during regular opening hours for a beginning urinary tract infection (UTI), bacterial or sterile cystitis. They are characterised by intensely red porphyrine pees that may or may test for blood at the onset, but the red pees and blood content is not consistent - clear pees can be interspersed with porphyrine pees with the clear pees scoring high on blood while porphyine pees can test free of blood (I have been there more than once!) Symptoms should become more consistent over the next days.

 

[LucyP]

Thanks weibke - we are due there on Thursday but this sounds like it should be checked sooner. Our usual vet is away until Thursday but hopefully someone else there can help in the meantime. Just checked them both individually and no visible blood in the wee but I know it doesn’t always show up.

I’ll call the vets first thing. Is there anything else we should do tonight?
Thanks again. Really appreciate this forum.

Hi!

You may want to have your girl vet checked during regular opening hours for a beginning urinary tract infection (UTI), bacterial or sterile cystitis. They are characterised by intensely red porphyrine pees that may or may test for blood at the onset, but the red pees and blood content is not consistent - clear pees can be interspersed with porphyrine pees with the clear pees scoring high on blood while porphyine pees can test free of blood (I have been there more than once!) Symptoms should become more consistent over the next days.

 

[LucyP]

Sorry meant to say Wiebke! Typing on phone so apologies for the typo!

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks weibke - we are due there on Thursday but this sounds like it should be checked sooner. Our usual vet is away until Thursday but hopefully someone else there can help in the meantime. Just checked them both individually and no visible blood in the wee but I know it doesn’t always show up.

I’ll call the vets first thing. Is there anything else we should do tonight?
Thanks again. Really appreciate this forum.

Thursday should still be OK as it is still only just starting; by then you should know which of them has got the infection. You need to see a vet only sooner if your affected piggy is suddenly looking very ill and not eating (this means that a bladder stone has got stuck in the urethra and blocking the urine flow, which can be fatal. It is however pretty rare in sows). Seeing a vet asap can mean that it is still too early for a diagnosis because the symptoms are still too inconsistent. I have a couple of those t-shirts in my roomy cupboard, too!

The way your vet will work down the list of urinary tract issues which present with very similar symptoms is firstly treating with an antibiotic for UTI; if that is not working (i.e. symptoms like squaking when peeing or pooing will remain or return soon after the end of the course) or if your piggy suddenly deteriorates, then an x-ray for bladder/kidney stones or sludge is usually the next step.
If symptoms continue and all other potential problems have been excluded, you are dealing with a non-bacterial (i.e. sterile) interstitial cystitis (IC). The last has become a lot more common over the last decade and can usually only be diagnosed by default and is not curable; you can only treat the symptoms until the sterile IC is going away on its own eventually.

Urinary tract infections are not pleasant, but they are not fatal and they do NOT cause bladder stones.

There are some dietary recommendations and you can also order cystease capsules (for cats) as the glucosamine in them will help protect the natural glucosamine coating of the walls of the urinary tract and help ease any discomfort. We will talk you through how to give them once they have arrived.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Please take a deep breath! 'Bloody' urine looks worse than it is and your piggies will hold if you already have an appointment.

 

[Guinea Newbie]

We got our piggies in early October too and 10 days in started with urine infections. It’s taken a while (a couple) of months but we finally think it was just UTIs and nothing else such as stones. We also follow the bladder issue guinea pig diet which is in the link above.

The vet also said it could have been the stress of the move and new environment. Finally I think they are settled with us and that in conjunction with the bladder diet seems to be working (at the moment )!

 

[LucyP]

Thank you so much! This is very helpful.

We’ll see how the pigs are tomorrow and will keep a close eye on them and their wee (and poo just in case).

Betty (the bigger one of the two) seems to do lots of wees, is drinking lots and also had a slightly damp belly when I picked her up today so maybe it sounds like it’s her....although she does sometimes play with the water bottle and make a mess, she’s a very bolshy one!

Anyway it’s a double appointment and we’ll ask the vet to check them both, and if we can we will try to take a wee sample of both in case helpful.

They’re both on metacam for the chest issues anyway which may help if they’re in any discomfort?

Thanks very much.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much! This is very helpful.

We’ll see how the pigs are tomorrow and will keep a close eye on them and their wee (and poo just in case).

Betty (the bigger one of the two) seems to do lots of wees, is drinking lots and also had a slightly damp belly when I picked her up today so maybe it sounds like it’s her....although she does sometimes play with the water bottle and make a mess, she’s a very bolshy one!

Anyway it’s a double appointment and we’ll ask the vet to check them both, and if we can we will try to take a wee sample of both in case helpful.

They’re both on metacam for the chest issues anyway which may help if they’re in any discomfort?

Thanks very much.

Yes, metacam is also part of any treatment for urinary tract issues.

 

[LucyP]

We got our piggies in early October too and 10 days in started with urine infections. It’s taken a while (a couple) of months but we finally think it was just UTIs and nothing else such as stones. We also follow the bladder issue guinea pig diet which is in the link above.

The vet also said it could have been the stress of the move and new environment. Finally I think they are settled with us and that in conjunction with the bladder diet seems to be working (at the moment )!

Thank you. They came from a hoarder situation (apparently about 70 pigs from Manchester who were since dispersed to rescue centres across the country) so must have had a very stressful start, then the rescue centre, then moving to us, having fungal issues, then chest issues. All these meds. Poor things. They’re actually seeming really good at the moment, gaining in confidence and popcorning all over the place! and we were hoping to turn a corner soon but perhaps not yet. Still we have time on our side and a good vets (this will be our 4th visit since we got them and the vet knows them now) so hopefully we can help them out.
Thanks again all

 

[Guinea Newbie]

Yes the Metacam will help with any pain if they do have a UTI. We had that in conjunction with Baytril.

 

[Guinea Newbie]

Gosh poor things! That must have been very stressful for them. We had about 5 vet visits in 2 months when we first got ours. At one point I thought it would never end! We are finally beginning to enjoy them after giving them 3 months of settling in and very limited handling (they were very timid). Now they wheek at us for their food and come to the edge of the cage to see us in the hope of veggies. Today during floor time they explored the most they ever have!
At Christmas they were booked into board at a rescue but they cancelled on us which was a relief as I think it would have set them back again.

 

[VickiA]

Thank you. They came from a hoarder situation (apparently about 70 pigs from Manchester who were since dispersed to rescue centres across the country) so must have had a very stressful start, then the rescue centre, then moving to us, having fungal issues, then chest issues. All these meds. Poor things. They’re actually seeming really good at the moment, gaining in confidence and popcorning all over the place! and we were hoping to turn a corner soon but perhaps not yet. Still we have time on our side and a good vets (this will be our 4th visit since we got them and the vet knows them now) so hopefully we can help them out.
Thanks again all

Aah, this explains a lot. I am pretty sure our rescue also took in from that situation. If it is the same one, then we have had pigs with persistent and very stubborn fungal infections, chest infections etc. It may just be that your girl’s resistance is very low. Sorry to preach to the converted but it may also be worth giving her some extra vitamin c and making sure the vets know about the vey bad start and where she came from.

 

[LucyP]

Thanks Vicki, I wondered if others would have pigs from the same situation. They are both adorable but have been a bit up against it. The vet is aware but good point and I’ll remind her when we see her next in case she’s forgotten. They have vit c supplements daily and also currently having some Pro C to help while they are on AB. Otherwise just trying to give a healthy diet as recommended on here and plenty of time to settle in. They’re pretty settled apart from these health issues, poor things.
Thanks again and will keep you posted - I’m sure we’ll need further advice from here.

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks Vicki, I wondered if others would have pigs from the same situation. They are both adorable but have been a bit up against it. The vet is aware but good point and I’ll remind her when we see her next in case she’s forgotten. They have vit c supplements daily and also currently having some Pro C to help while they are on AB. Otherwise just trying to give a healthy diet as recommended on here and plenty of time to settle in. They’re pretty settled apart from these health issues, poor things.
Thanks again and will keep you posted - I’m sure we’ll need further advice from here.

Poor you! It can take a long time for the immune system to really build up in my experience from adopting from other hellhole rescues over the years. Recovery is very often not a straight ramp but more of a one step forward, two steps back uphill battle - but with an increasingly more quickly bounce back reaction.

You are doing all the right things. Just hang in there. Your girls can still live a normal life span and even surprise you living to a very good old age, as some of mine have done against all the odds!

 

[LucyP]

I hope so! Maybe it was a bit naive of us to take them on but you also feel extra determined to give them the best life possible and provide a stable and happy home after all they’ve been through. They’re pretty perky and upbeat most of the time so I think they have some spirit, despite all the issues!

 

[Wiebke]

I hope so! Maybe it was a bit naive of us to take them on but you also feel extra determined to give them the best life possible and provide a stable and happy home after all they’ve been through. They’re pretty perky and upbeat most of the time so I think they have some spirit, despite all the issues!

Their spirit will win out and is testament to your care. Taking on piggies from such a bad background is a rather steep learning curve for you, but your girls have very obviously found that loving and committed home that they need and deserve!

 

[VickiA]

I hope so! Maybe it was a bit naive of us to take them on but you also feel extra determined to give them the best life possible and provide a stable and happy home after all they’ve been through. They’re pretty perky and upbeat most of the time so I think they have some spirit, despite all the issues!

The ones who survive a hellhole experience like this are the very ones who deserve the best homes. It’s great that you have taken them in and are experienced in dealing with the issues, also that you have good vets to hand. Sometimes it just seems that the first few months or so are a constant battling with one demon after another. It’s almost as if once they reach safety and security they drop their guard and relax and all these things come to the surface. As Wiebke says it’s testament to the loving care you’ve given them that they know they are safe. But with any luck, once they get through this period you will get a bit of respite from the constant vet visits. I would just make sure that the vets are reminded at each visit that these were from such a poor background to start with as it may just make them look at them slightly differently.

 

[LucyP]

Thanks everyone, really appreciate all the encouragement and advice. Will keep you posted on developments.

 

[LucyP]

Thursday should still be OK as it is still only just starting; by then you should know which of them has got the infection. You need to see a vet only sooner if your affected piggy is suddenly looking very ill and not eating (this means that a bladder stone has got stuck in the urethra and blocking the urine flow, which can be fatal. It is however pretty rare in sows). Seeing a vet asap can mean that it is still too early for a diagnosis because the symptoms are still too inconsistent. I have a couple of those t-shirts in my roomy cupboard, too!

The way your vet will work down the list of urinary tract issues which present with very similar symptoms is firstly treating with an antibiotic for UTI; if that is not working (i.e. symptoms like squaking when peeing or pooing will remain or return soon after the end of the course) or if your piggy suddenly deteriorates, then an x-ray for bladder/kidney stones or sludge is usually the next step.
If symptoms continue and all other potential problems have been excluded, you are dealing with a non-bacterial (i.e. sterile) interstitial cystitis (IC). The last has become a lot more common over the last decade and can usually only be diagnosed by default and is not curable; you can only treat the symptoms until the sterile IC is going away on its own eventually.

Urinary tract infections are not pleasant, but they are not fatal and they do NOT cause bladder stones.

There are some dietary recommendations and you can also order cystease capsules (for cats) as the glucosamine in them will help protect the natural glucosamine coating of the walls of the urinary tract and help ease any discomfort. We will talk you through how to give them once they have arrived.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Please take a deep breath! 'Bloody' urine looks worse than it is and your piggies will hold if you already have an appointment.

Thursday should still be OK as it is still only just starting; by then you should know which of them has got the infection. You need to see a vet only sooner if your affected piggy is suddenly looking very ill and not eating (this means that a bladder stone has got stuck in the urethra and blocking the urine flow, which can be fatal. It is however pretty rare in sows). Seeing a vet asap can mean that it is still too early for a diagnosis because the symptoms are still too inconsistent. I have a couple of those t-shirts in my roomy cupboard, too!

The way your vet will work down the list of urinary tract issues which present with very similar symptoms is firstly treating with an antibiotic for UTI; if that is not working (i.e. symptoms like squaking when peeing or pooing will remain or return soon after the end of the course) or if your piggy suddenly deteriorates, then an x-ray for bladder/kidney stones or sludge is usually the next step.
If symptoms continue and all other potential problems have been excluded, you are dealing with a non-bacterial (i.e. sterile) interstitial cystitis (IC). The last has become a lot more common over the last decade and can usually only be diagnosed by default and is not curable; you can only treat the symptoms until the sterile IC is going away on its own eventually.

Urinary tract infections are not pleasant, but they are not fatal and they do NOT cause bladder stones.

There are some dietary recommendations and you can also order cystease capsules (for cats) as the glucosamine in them will help protect the natural glucosamine coating of the walls of the urinary tract and help ease any discomfort. We will talk you through how to give them once they have arrived.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Please take a deep breath! 'Bloody' urine looks worse than it is and your piggies will hold if you already have an appointment.

The Cystease capsules arrived today and I also have some of the Oxbow Urinary Support supplements - I’d be grateful for your advice on the dosing etc for the Cystease. Not sure whether it’s best to just get started with it or whether to wait until the vet visit and a potential diagnosis on Thursday. Also wondered whether the Cystease might skew results of a urine test ? - in which case I guess it’s best to just wait until the vet appointment.

There’s been no more bloody-looking marks today and no obvious signs of discomfort. Betty’s eating well and has been active. She does seem a little more subdued than usual as she’s usually quite a feisty pig - but that’s probably to be expected as she must be feeling poorly. Otherwise her behaviour seems as normal for her.

 

[LucyP]

Hi all

Not sure if this should be a new thread or not but here's an update on today's vet visit:

Betty has been prescribed twice a day marbocyl and metcam for possible UTI and the existing lower respiratory infection. There was no urine sample taken (we tried this morning before the vets but obviously that was the one time she didn't want to go!) - and she's been on doxycline for the last 2 weeks which apparently could have skewed her urine test results anyway. So the idea is to try marbocyl and metcam and see how she goes - we can step it up to more investigations if needed but given the stress these pigs have been through, the vet is avoiding anything too invasive at this stage. We will watch her carefully. UTI wise she has made a squeak or two when going to the toilet in the last couple of days. We had bought some cystease but haven't done anything with that yet.

Respiratory wise she still makes the occasional snorting or hooting noise (although she also inhales ALL her food extremely quickly which might be part of that).

We were concerned that the ringworm may have returned as Betty's ears have been looking rough this week and she also seems to scratch quite a lot, but the vet thinks that's dry skin/possible over-grooming. She had a look in her ear canals too for good measure and nothing to report. She's weighing 1250g and maintaining that well.

Winnie had seemed (from the outside at least) to finally be doing well with her treatment for lower respiratory issues after a month on ABs (first marbocyl then doxycline and metacam throughout). In the last week/10 days we've heard no strange hooting or clicking noises. Her weight has increased from 730g to 880g which we were SO pleased with, as was the vet (who I think has a real soft spot for her and esp loves to hear about how she rumblestruts and dominates even though she's the smallest of the pair!) But then the vet listened to her heart, and found the rate was very low (100, down from 240 and 200 at the last visits). If I've got this right, the vet says it's possible the chest infection bacteria may have affected her heart, and she mentioned possible endocarditis(?) So Winnie is now starting metronidazole twice a day (which I think is the same as flagyl) along with marbocyl and metcam. She decided to hold off on diuretics for now (something about not wanting to dry out her airwaves too much to start with I think) but can review that if needed. She's calling us tomorrow to see how Winnie is doing and she's also trying to arrange an ultrasound with a vet who is apparently excellent with small animal ultrasounds, to maybe help get a clearer picture. The thought of heart issues is very upsetting but the vet also said that in some cases, low heart rate readings can be acute and things can normalise.

So for Winnie we've been advised to keep a very close eye on the usual things (loss of appetite, any struggle with eating, weight, mobility, strange poos etc) and also any signs of regurgitation/retching/re-swallowing food type symptoms.

So this is where we are..

The pigs are home now, exhausted and a bit fed up (we all are!).. After lying down in her hammock for a couple of hours Winnie just energetically popcorned and jumped about over a pile of hay which was so nice to see! But they both seem a bit worn out. They are eating though.

Let's hope the new medication regime helps them both... and thanks again for all your support. If anyone has any suggestions or similar experiences, we'd be glad to hear from you and thanks again.

 

[LucyP]

Here they are resting after the vets (winnie on top, Betty below).