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Advice On Caring For Lethal Guinea Pig Babies

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Clair

Clair

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Hi,

Can anyone give any advice on caring for lethal guinea pig babies please?

Many thanks
 
Welcome to the forum. I have 12 lethal gene piggies here at TEAS and they all cope very well, although they are all blind/deaf and some have some missing incisors. However, lethal gene piggies can have many different issues. How old are the babies? Have they been checked by a vet yet? Do they seem to be thriving?
 
furryfriends Excellent Adventure Sanctuary said:
Welcome to the forum. I have 12 lethal gene piggies here at TEAS and they all cope very well, although they are all blind/deaf and some have some missing incisors. However, lethal gene piggies can have many different issues. How old are the babies? Have they been checked by a vet yet? Do they seem to be thriving?
Click to expand...

Hi Furry Friends,

Thanks for your reply. Angel was born on Wednesday 20th August, she seems to be thriving, she was the biggest baby and only 2 out of 3 survived in the litter so Mum is caring for her well. She is feeding her and washing her and cuddling her so all is well there. I haven't had her seen by a vet yet, but was planning to call today to seek advice. I think the problem is genetic, the dad was a lemon dalmation so obviously Mum was carrying a gene that didn't mix. The other baby that was dead when I looked in the hutch and had no eyes. :(

Angel may be partially sighted, we are not sure. She appears to be deaf. She appears to have no teeth but it is difficult to tell when she is so new born. This morning when I looked in the hutch her eyes were stuck together, so we used some warm wet cotton wool to gently wipe her eyes and then she was able to open them.

I think my concern going forward is how to look after her when mum is no longer giving her milk. How do you wean a lethal guinea pig and how and what do you feed them?

Do I have to find a specialist vet or will just any vet have knowledge of how to deal with this?

I'd welcome any advice.

Many thanks and kind regards

Clair
 
Cookie&Cream said:
I'd honestly try to find a specialist vet, or at least a Guinea Pig specialist :)
Click to expand...

I have just used the vet locator on this forum and called. They do have a vet who is very experienced with guinea pigs but she's not in today! They were very friendly and the lady I spoke to said she would speak to the other vets and try and get some advice for me...so we'll see what happens. Loads of vets round here, but only having had guinea pigs for just over a year and never having had a problem, I've never had to use a vet before.
 
Clair said:
I have just used the vet locator on this forum and called. They do have a vet who is very experienced with guinea pigs but she's not in today! They were very friendly and the lady I spoke to said she would speak to the other vets and try and get some advice for me...so we'll see what happens. Loads of vets round here, but only having had guinea pigs for just over a year and never having had a problem, I've never had to use a vet before.
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Ah thats good then :) Hopefully you can speak to the experienced one soon :)
 
Umm well , I'm not a vet or even a specialist but you say she is not getting milk? I have hand fed a baby bunny before because berry my bunny wasn't giving her enough milk so she was the smallest and I gave her Cat formula and I'm quiet sure you can give it to guinea pigs as well... just give it to her with an eyedroper or syringe... Maybe do it once every 1 and a half hours, not quiet sure about that but please wait with until a specialist like @helen105281 or somebody else come and writes something that is for SURE. Hope this helped! Good Luck!
 
I am not very familiar with hand rearing babies so I am tagging @Wiebke .

However, please do not use a syringe to feed a tiny baby as the milk could get into their lungs and cause respiratory issues. It is best to let them sip it off a spoon or a small bowl.
 
helen105281 said:
I am not very familiar with hand rearing babies so I am tagging @Wiebke .

However, please do not use a syringe to feed a tiny baby as the milk could get into their lungs and cause respiratory issues. It is best to let them sip it off a spoon or a small bowl.
Click to expand...
Yes I did say wait until a specialist came in :)
 
Oh poor little dear -I wish you all the best keeping her going and giving her a great life!
I think I know which vets you will have been recommended by the locator from your location and they're the vets I use too - you're in fantastic hands there. The main piggy vet is normally in monday-wednesday so should be back in next week if you can wait that long before getting Angel checked.

You've also got a couple of good rescues nearby (Bobtails in Epsom and theres two in Crawley which are a little further away) who might be able to give you some advice if they have had lethal babies in the past.

Just to check that daddypig isn't still in with mum? As if so you could be in danger of having round two as girls can become fertile again very quickly after giving birth!
 
Hi! I am very sorry that you have ended up with that mess. :(

Is Angel able to drink from mummy? The nursing period is about 3-4 weeks during which time babies gradually shift over to adult food; healthy babies start nibbling on hay within hours of being born. Weaning is done by mummy, there is nothing you need to do about it. After being weaned, guinea pigs become lactose intolerant, so you may want to get Angel gradually used to fibrous foods like recovery foods, mushed up pellets (both made up with boiled cooled water for vulnerable piggies). You could also discuss what your vet thinks about mixing in complan and/or a bit of pureed or grated veg eventually, being aware that the fibrous food should make 80% of her diet. @furryfriends Excellent Adventure Sanctuary can give you more tips in that respect, as she deals with adult lethal and dental piggies. There is unfortunately no rodent milk formula, so any milk replacement for guinea pigs is less than ideal.

Make sure that the little baby has got one-on-one time with mum several times a day during the nursing period if she can drink, so the gets the full benefit of that. She may like to nibble bits of food from a spoon or your vet may be able yo get you some little suckling tip. The crucial bit is that any drop of solids that ends up in lung will kill. If you use a syringe, you will literally have to do it drop by drop at first, about up to 1ml or less in one go every hour or so. At weaning age, the little one will hopefully be more robust, so you can assess again what is the best way forward. You should also have a better idea by then just how much Angel is affected; lethals can be so to varying degrees. The worst ones don't make to birth or die soon after (that is when the nutrient absorption in the guts is badly impacted).

Weigh mum and babies daily at the same time.

You should know more once you have seen the vet and see what he has to say.
 
When I handreared babies who had lost their mum, I used goats milk and soaked brown bread in it, and they sucked it and ate a little of the bread too. They did very well and all thrived. These piggies weren't lethals though. All the lethal gene piggies here at TEAS eat well, although some can't manage foods such as a whole carrot, as they can't bite down due to having missing bottom incisors.
 
Gizi said:
Umm well , I'm not a vet or even a specialist but you say she is not getting milk? I have hand fed a baby bunny before because berry my bunny wasn't giving her enough milk so she was the smallest and I gave her Cat formula and I'm quiet sure you can give it to guinea pigs as well... just give it to her with an eyedroper or syringe... Maybe do it once every 1 and a half hours, not quiet sure about that but please wait with until a specialist like @helen105281 or somebody else come and writes something that is for SURE. Hope this helped! Good Luck!
Click to expand...

Hi Gizi,
Thanks for replying. Thankfully we've seen the Mum caring for Angel and feeding her, so I am just worrying what to give her going forward. Hopefully the vet will advise!
 
Clair said:
Hi Gizi,
Thanks for replying. Thankfully we've seen the Mum caring for Angel and feeding her, so I am just worrying what to give her going forward. Hopefully the vet will advise!
Click to expand...
Well does she not have teeth? If not maybe you could mash up some pellets with water... Usually Guinea pigs start to nibble on hay a few hours later they are born and they also should start nibbleing on some pellets.... Is she doing any off this?
 
helen105281 said:
I am not very familiar with hand rearing babies so I am tagging @Wiebke .

However, please do not use a syringe to feed a tiny baby as the milk could get into their lungs and cause respiratory issues. It is best to let them sip it off a spoon or a small bowl.
Click to expand...

Hi Helen,
Thanks for the reply. My 13 year old daughter was very quick to tell me that too about not feeding with a syringe! She has read the Guineapiglopaedia cover to cover and is always watching You Tube videos and Instagram stuff about guinea pigs. Thanks for the heads up though!
 
Hi Tbag,

That's great to hear that the vets is good. I've never had to use a vets before so I didn't know where to go , there do seem to be quite a few around here. Always good to hear that the one you've picked is good then! The Dad is no longer with Pebble so no worries there! I'm very sad to say that he escaped last Saturday and we haven't seen him since! We phoned Bobtails then in case someone had found him and called, as well as calling a number of local vets, another rescue centre in Sutton and leaflet dropping over 30 neighbours. He has completely disappeared though. I keep checking under the hutches and all around the garden and there is no sign. :(
 
Wiebke said:
Hi! I am very sorry that you have ended up with that mess. :(

Is Angel able to drink from mummy? The nursing period is about 3-4 weeks during which time babies gradually shift over to adult food; healthy babies start nibbling on hay within hours of being born. Weaning is done by mummy, there is nothing you need to do about it. After being weaned, guinea pigs become lactose intolerant, so you may want to get Angel gradually used to fibrous foods like recovery foods, mushed up pellets (both made up with boiled cooled water for vulnerable piggies). You could also discuss what your vet thinks about mixing in complan and/or a bit of pureed or grated veg eventually, being aware that the fibrous food should make 80% of her diet. @furryfriends Excellent Adventure Sanctuary can give you more tips in that respect, as she deals with adult lethal and dental piggies. There is unfortunately no rodent milk formula, so any milk replacement for guinea pigs is less than ideal.

Make sure that the little baby has got one-on-one time with mum several times a day during the nursing period if she can drink, so the gets the full benefit of that. She may like to nibble bits of food from a spoon or your vet may be able yo get you some little suckling tip. The crucial bit is that any drop of solids that ends up in lung will kill. If you use a syringe, you will literally have to do it drop by drop at first, about up to 1ml or less in one go every hour or so. At weaning age, the little one will hopefully be more robust, so you can assess again what is the best way forward. You should also have a better idea by then just how much Angel is affected; lethals can be so to varying degrees. The worst ones don't make to birth or die soon after (that is when the nutrient absorption in the guts is badly impacted).

Weigh mum and babies daily at the same time.

You should know more once you have seen the vet and see what he has to say.
Click to expand...

Hi, Thank for the reply. Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by Fibrous foods and recovery foods please? I'll ask the vet about about adding in things to mushed up pellets, thank you for the suggestion.

Being so new born we hadn't really separated the babies from their Mum for very long but that does sound a really sensible suggestion and we will start doing that as soon as possible. From birth Angel was the bigger of the two babies but now her sister seems to be growing more quickly than her. I have seen her trying to eat food so I am hoping she will take it from a teaspoon. I might try some mushed up pellets with cooled boiled water then. I suppose my question now is, when to start trying that? Should I wait to see the vet, or should I be trying it straight away?

Thanks
 
Gizi said:
Well does she not have teeth? If not maybe you could mash up some pellets with water... Usually Guinea pigs start to nibble on hay a few hours later they are born and they also should start nibbleing on some pellets.... Is she doing any off this?
Click to expand...

Hi Gizi,

No teeth are visible. We have seen her trying to eat hay and in the food bowl, but how can she be eating if she has no teeth? The hay didn't look touched really, she seemed to get a bit in her mouth and then suck on it. Perhaps I should be trying mushed up pellets tomorrow then....
 
Maybe keep checking for teeth? How old is she now? Feed the pelleted mixture off a spoon or you can try to get a container lid and put the mixture in there then put in the cage? But if she tried to suck on the hay you could use an eyedroper and she may think it's her mummys milk?

Hope This Helped! :)
 
Good idea about the container lid! She was born Wednesday so she's only 3 days old. I might try a teaspoon first.

Her eyes keep gluing shut too. On another forum someone suggested using used teabags and so far it seems to be working. She's getting very used to being handled. My children love her! I think because she seems so helpless they really want to take good care of her! x
 
Clair said:
Good idea about the container lid! She was born Wednesday so she's only 3 days old. I might try a teaspoon first.

Her eyes keep gluing shut too. On another forum someone suggested using used teabags and so far it seems to be working. She's getting very used to being handled. My children love her! I think because she seems so helpless they really want to take good care of her! x
Click to expand...
So her sister is growing faster? Make sure that you weigh them everyday with just your ordinary kitchen scale... A newborn guinea pig should weigh 50 grams when born... They should keep adding to that I couldn't find how much they should add everyday but I am guessing 3 grams maybe? How much does she weigh and how much does her sister weigh?
 
Oh I'm sorry to hear Daddypig is missing, must be quite the blow for this to happen right after. Best of luck with everything!
 
Clair said:
Hi, Thank for the reply. Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by Fibrous foods and recovery foods please? I'll ask the vet about about adding in things to mushed up pellets, thank you for the suggestion.

Being so new born we hadn't really separated the babies from their Mum for very long but that does sound a really sensible suggestion and we will start doing that as soon as possible. From birth Angel was the bigger of the two babies but now her sister seems to be growing more quickly than her. I have seen her trying to eat food so I am hoping she will take it from a teaspoon. I might try some mushed up pellets with cooled boiled water then. I suppose my question now is, when to start trying that? Should I wait to see the vet, or should I be trying it straight away?

Thanks
Click to expand...

You can start offering hand feed right from the start, especially if Angel has problems with suckling, swallowing or with food absorption; it all depends on how bad the lethal syndrome is.

Recovery foods are formulas in powder form that you mix with water for hand feeding; they are mainly based on fibre, which should make up most of a guinea pig diet.
Most vets will either prescribe complan or kitten milk formula for newborn orphans, but the more milk she gets from mum the better since it contains all the antibodies and nutrients that she needs most and that give her the crucial protection against illness.
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk...vitamin-c-overview-with-product-links.115404/
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/complete-hand-feeding-guide.115359/ (Babies obviously need a lot less food and should not be syringe fed, but the guide will give you tips on hand feeding and how to make up pellets and recovery formulas.

Lethal genes can be potentially carried by any piggy with even one white hair whose pedigree you don't know; but the degree to which it affects a piggy can vary. Angel may simply not thrive despite your best efforts if she is too damaged to survive for long. :(

Sadly, with the current indiscriminate mass breeding on rodent farms on the Continent that supply British pets shops or by backyard breeders out for money, the risk of ending up with genetic problems like lethals, satin disease (osteodystrophy), early heart failure or strokes at a young age etc. has massively increased for the general public. Several of my own (rescue) piggies are paying or have paid a high price for the ignorance or sheer callousness/neglect by their breeding owners. :(
 
Gizi said:
So her sister is growing faster? Make sure that you weigh them everyday with just your ordinary kitchen scale... A newborn guinea pig should weigh 50 grams when born... They should keep adding to that I couldn't find how much they should add everyday but I am guessing 3 grams maybe? How much does she weigh and how much does her sister weigh?
Click to expand...

Angel weighs 86g
Missy weighs 139g

I've tried some mushed up pellets today but Angel just wasn't interested. So I put them on a pringles lid in the hutch and removed Missy in the hope that Mum Pebble might show her what to do. The food looks untouched though.
 
Clair said:
Angel weighs 86g
Missy weighs 139g

I've tried some mushed up pellets today but Angel just wasn't interested. So I put them on a pringles lid in the hutch and removed Missy in the hope that Mum Pebble might show her what to do. The food looks untouched though.
Click to expand...
Is Missy lethal too? Please don't remove them, If you do not for too long. A young guinea pig still needs to nurse from their mother up until 3 to 4 weeks :)
 
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