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Another Bladder Stone?!

lexi468

lexi468

Junior Guinea Pig
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Apr 21, 2015
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Location
Michigan, US
Hey guys!

So kind of a long story, but some of you may know that my pig Midnight had a bladder stone removal about two months ago. About three weeks ago I noticed his symptoms were back. I took him back to the vet and he gave him a shot of antibiotics but nothing changed. In the meantime I moved to another state, where there are exotics vets. I took him to a new vet and this vet took X-rays and sure enough, there was a stone. This new vet told me it's unlikely that this new stone formed in two months, especially considering I changed his diet, and that the other vet should have taken a post op X-ray to ensure they removed all of the stones. So, I called the other vet and asked if they took a post op X-ray, and they did not. They told me he could have formed the stone within the last two months and there's nothing they can do.
Could he have formed this stone so quickly? If not, what do I do?
 
sport_billy said:
You would be looking at another operation unfortunately. I am really sorry :( Tagging in @helen105281 @Freela @Jaycey
Click to expand...

I prepared myself for the other op the second I saw blood in his pee. Although I REALLY can't afford it, he's my pig and I took on the responsibility so I am going to do so. I'm just wondering if it is likely he formed this within two months? I mean I'm just a little frustrated by the conflicting vet statements. One says he just reformed it, and one says it's very unlikely. Also, the vet that performed his surgery, which is not the one I spoke to just now at the same practice, said it was unlikely he formed a new one in two months. I'm so frustrated and confused as to how this happened! Is he just prone to bladder stones? What do I do if that's the case?
 
It is possible unfortunately I believe. I am tagging in @Wiebke also for you she may know more
 
A low calcium diet will be the way to go. Tagging in @helen105281 for further ideas on it
 
Have a read of this thread here Recommendations For A Balanced General Guinea Pig Diet it mentions a low calcium diet.

To be honest some piggies are more susceptible, you can feed high calcium and never encounter a stone, but certainly feeding less will lessen the risk. Sending your piggy lots of love
 
lexi468 said:
Hey guys!

So kind of a long story, but some of you may know that my pig Midnight had a bladder stone removal about two months ago. About three weeks ago I noticed his symptoms were back. I took him back to the vet and he gave him a shot of antibiotics but nothing changed. In the meantime I moved to another state, where there are exotics vets. I took him to a new vet and this vet took X-rays and sure enough, there was a stone. This new vet told me it's unlikely that this new stone formed in two months, especially considering I changed his diet, and that the other vet should have taken a post op X-ray to ensure they removed all of the stones. So, I called the other vet and asked if they took a post op X-ray, and they did not. They told me he could have formed the stone within the last two months and there's nothing they can do.
Could he have formed this stone so quickly? If not, what do I do?
Click to expand...

Hi! I am very sorry for your predicament.

Calcium absorption is a very complex process that is yet not much researched in guinea pigs. Factors like a genetic disposition or changes in the calcium absorption can also play a role and can contribute to the formation of a new stone within weeks. I have had that happening with one of my own piggies. After developing an 11 mm stone in a matter of weeks, she needed regular bladder flushes which we could space out as time went on; but I could never fully eliminate the build-up of bladder slush completely. Cariad at least lived another two years after her big bladder op. I was lucky to have access to a very good guinea pig vet as otherwise she would not have had that extra time.

A low calcium diet (including limited no added calcium pellets and filtered water; also cut out root and high sugar veg like sweetcorn as well as most high calcium veg) can contribute to prevent or at least slow down the formation of another stone, but depending on what is going wrong, diet can do only so much. You may find the tips in our sample diet helpful; most of the experienced members that roughly follow a similar version have not had any major stone issues for a few years now.
 
@lexi468 My Anselmo had two bladder stone surgeries. Not quite as quickly as your pig but it was within 6 months.

We were never able to completely stop bladder sludge but with a controlled diet and medication we were able to prevent further stones forming.

He lived another 3 years before he was euthanised due to an unrelated issue.
 
Thanks everybody!
What was the medication yours was on @Jaycey?
And @Wiebke how does a vet perform bladder flushes?

I'll check out the diet and see if I need to be more strict!
 
He was taking Cystease which is a supplement which is for cystitis. But it can make the bladder more comfortable.

He also had a Potassium supplement.

The medication he had was Bendrofluazide. We decided to trial it after my vet had a long discussion with a zoo vet that had very positive results in other species. He was on it for just under 2 years before he passed away.
 
lexi468 said:
Thanks everybody!
What was the medication yours was on @Jaycey?
And @Wiebke how does a vet perform bladder flushes?

I'll check out the diet and see if I need to be more strict!
Click to expand...

Cystease is a glucosamine based cat food supplement; it is not a medication. It helps to support and protect the natural glucosamine coating of the bladder walls, which are often inflamed from the irritation of a stone. Cystitis (inflammation of the bladder walls) is rather common in bladder stone piggies.

A bladder flush needs to be done very carefully in order to not back up the fluid into the kidneys (which is usually fatal about 10 days after an inappropriately done bladder flush). However, when done well, it can wash out any sediment/sludge in the bladder that is building up again in guinea pigs with recurring stone problems to prevent new stones from forming.
If your vet is not sure, he may want to speak to the vet I am using; he is a general vet seeing just cats and small furries and one of the most experienced guinea pig vets in the UK.
The Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic

Many bladder piggies are also not good drinkers. You cannot force them to drink more, but you can either offer water by syringe as much as they will take willingly (do NOT force any down and always wait until the previous mouthful - 0.3-0.5 ml - have safely gone down!) or a larger piece of a watery veg like cucumber or celery once daily to help encourage one larger pee that can help wash out any sediment and bacteria.
 
I don't know how comfortable I would feel having anybody in the US do a bladder flush. It sounds like I should try some Cystease. He seems to drink enough, but I will give him some cucumber daily. He likes it a lot anyways.
Thanks for all of the support. I'll do everything I can to give Midnight more time. I love him so much.
 
Increased exercise is good. If shakes things up so the particles of sludge are less likely to compact into a stone. My vet likened it to a snow globe.

Increased fluid intake is good too. My boy was a terrible drinker so he had a bit more cucumber, I wet his veg and after speaking to the vet we put a small bottle of water with a tiny bit of 100% fresh orange on his cage. He loved that but it needed to be changed multiple times a day as the orange would go off otherwise. He sometimes drank 30ml of that a day, which was a lot for him.
 
Jaycey said:
Increased exercise is good. If shakes things up so the particles of sludge are less likely to compact into a stone. My vet likened it to a snow globe.

Increased fluid intake is good too. My boy was a terrible drinker so he had a bit more cucumber, I wet his veg and after speaking to the vet we put a small bottle of water with a tiny bit of 100% fresh orange on his cage. He loved that but it needed to be changed multiple times a day as the orange would go off otherwise. He sometimes drank 30ml of that a day, which was a lot for him.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for the advice!
He is a good drinker (I think), but I will try more exercise. Thank you so much!
 
I have an update guys!
Midnight still has not gone into surgery because it's been a nightmare finding somebody to do it. Bloomingrove (the ones that took the most recent X-ray) do not have any doctors currently working there that have done the surgery, although they were willing to anyways. This made me uncomfortable so I called the only other exotics vet in the area and they quoted me an absurd price. About 600-1000 USD. So I called Bloomingrove back and they have been working with me on solutions. It looks like we have one. They have a new doctor coming on that has performed the surgery before, who MIGHT be able to do it on Monday. However, if she's not able to, she has talked to Nelson and Stone about the anesthesia protocol for the surgery and everybody feels confident that Stone and Nelson can do it. They are both excellent surgeons and have worked on animals as small as mice before, and I have confidence that they would not tell me they could do it if they couldn't. So, this is where we're at. Hoping to get Midnight in for surgery on Monday, one way or another. They quoted me a much more reasonable price of around 350 USD. I am beyond relieved because I just simply could not afford the 600 but would have made it work if I had to, it's just such a weight off my shoulders not having to do that.
 
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