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Arthritis And Leg Injury

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cochondinde

cochondinde

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi, my castrated male is almost 6 years old and now shares a large cage with two females. When they are in season they chase him and as he is not as agile he has several times caught his legs in the hay and injured them. Each time I have given him Metacam which helped and he recovered very well. The latest injury though happened 4 weeks ago and is still not better. He has had Metacam again but I took him to the vet and asked for an x-ray which showed arthritis of the knee. She asked me to give him steroid injections but he became distressed each time and I only managed to give them to him for 6 days. I went back to the vet and she thought he had improved, which he had. I am giving him Tabritis pills, Oxbow Joint Support supplements (glucosamine and chondroitin etc), Cobagreen (probiotics with vitamins including vit C for his digestion), Oxbow Papaya (natural anti-inflammatory) and have started the Metacam again yesterday. Twice a day I offer him slithers of carrot and parsley while he is on the carpet and get him to follow me so that he gets exercise, otherwise he just stands there, and he has time in a playpen with the girls but doesn't normally move much. I also put him in another cage when we go out and during the night so that there are no problems with the girls harassing him. I have been putting hay just in the corners of the cage so that he doesn't get his legs trapped when he does move but as I also don't put as much hemp litter in the cage (as I think it feels a little hard for the feet) he often wet from his urine and that smells. I do wipe him down and have been letting him exercise his legs in warm water to also clean his bottom. I feel he may have torn a tendon or ligament as his back legs, when held, don't line up the same. I'm not sure if anybody else's guinea pig has experienced something like a torn tendon or ligament and if so what happened with treatment/improvement. Sorry for the length of this folks.
Read more at: http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/conversations/injury-to-legs.26189/#message-53381
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@Pebble @Elwickcavies

I can't help you on the medical side, but would you consider vet bed as bedding instead of hemp or wood chippings?

It would also help if you added which country you are in. Please click on your username on the top bar, then to personal details and scroll down to location. That will help us adapt any advice to what is available to you.
 
Please can you tell me what kind of vet bed to use. I do have some but it is thick and white and I'm not sure if Teddy will try to pull at the material with his teeth.
 
cochondinde said:
Please can you tell me what kind of vet bed to use. I do have some but it is thick and white and I'm not sure if Teddy will try to pull at the material with his teeth.
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Some piggies do pull at the vet bed with their teeth. One of mine used to do that but I would still use it as it is soft. My girl also has arthritis. I would wash it before use to remove any lose fluff.
 
It sounds like you are already doing everything I would suggest (glucosamine, hydrotherapy, anti-inflamatories). He's a good age and unfortunately arthritis is one of the things that can creep up on them. A heat pad may help too (same principle as the warm water). I guess all you can really do is try to make him comfortable with it. Poor guy. Hugs to you both. x
 
His hind leg has been improving but I noticed he was holding up his right front leg yesterday so I have removed the hemp bedding and changed it for some vet bed with newspaper underneath. I have also put a tea towel down on the rest of his cage so that he doesn't slip when walking and to catch the drips from the water bottle.

When examining his front paw today I see that he has a little split where the pad joins the foot so I have smeared some special cream from Gorgeous Guineas into it a couple of times. He wouldn't walk for his veggies this morning but he has this afternoon so I'm hoping that the softness of the vet bed and the cream will improve things.

It is so alien to me not being able to put a guinea pig in hay but I have to do what makes him comfortable. There is hay for him to nibble on and his food and I pay him lots of attention which he loves. I am also going to buy some fleece and make some liners for the large cage so that all piggies can be together as I know he gets lonely when he is on his own and he doesn't eat as much when by himself.
 
I have many old timer's some in their ninth to tenth year, with arthritic conditions, and the only thing I found useful is to keep them as exercise as possible and with leg joint conditions like your pigs I found gentle massage above and below the joint to stimulate blood supply helps a great deal, personally I would not load him up with too many arthritis supplements, as it may pose a problem to his kidneys that have to get rid of surplus materials
 
Hi there I was apprehensive about your vet giving steroid injections on an old pig for six consecutive days , as I remember reading about athletes getting problems?

So I looked it up ,

I couldn't find any think relating to Guinea pigs so I looked under these human sites ,

quote >Local corticosteroid injections can have serious septic and aseptic complications. Unquote> must admit I didn't understand most of it lol !
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3394381/at

It might be worth having a word of your vet about this as many of them do not know a great deal about Guinea pigs and if there is no problem with the injections, I would question him about the affects it would have on his immune system, as it is well known that steroid run the immune system down!

I could be totally barking up the wrong tree , but it would do no harm to post two questions to your vet

1=are regular injections going to cause any needle site damage.

2=Given his age are regular steroids going to run his immune system down leaving him vulnerable to other infections
 
image.webp Thank you gizzy for your reply. I am not happy either with steroids. I had a dachshund that had steroids for a long time and our cat who is only two has cancer and is having chemotherapy with a steroid injection every 15 days. As we noticed problems with his skin the vet stopped it as she agreed his skin was thinning as the steroid was too strong for him.

I put Teddy on a vet bed today but it already smells of ammonia and I wondered why his urine should smell so strong. He is drinking so I'm not sure why it should be so strong. I am worried that his respiratory tract will be affected so will change his vet bed again. I have read when researching vet beds and fleece that they do smell but he hasn't been on it for 12 hours yet so am puzzled. I have ordered some more vet bed and fleece to make a cage liner. I am hoping that he will become more active as he is reluctant to move. I will make a fleece liner for the large cage so that the other pigs will encourage him to move more.
 
Thank you piggyfan. I have lined the cage with kitchen roll and then newspaper. I always line the cage this way and normally there would be hemp bedding and hay on top. This way there was never any smell of ammonia and I clean the cages every day using a product that is meant for cages.
 
Kitchen fool and newspaper is not absorbent enough. I use towels under vetbed and never have problems with any smell. I change it all every three days and wash at sixty degrees.
 
Hi cochondinde, You are write his wee shouldn't smell,!! I have mine all exclusively on vet bed and I don't have that problem,

it could be that he's not getting enough fluids or it could be that he's got a infection.

Both would be helped if you slowly increased the amount of watery vegetables like cucumber to flush his bladder,

you could also test his wee yourself it would be a lot cheaper than the vets, what you're looking for is increased leukocytes (white blood cells) nitrites, proteins, and blood, if all or any show up on the test stick , it would be an idea to show the results to your vet.

NB if you do get these do not become a slave to them, they are only meant to help you diagnose in combination with outwardly showing symptoms !

 
I have just started to clean Teddy's cage again and notice that Teddy's front right foot is actually swollen. I think this is bumblefoot probably brought on by the change that I made to avoid trapping his foot in hay again. He was walking on hemp which is not as soft as we are led to believe. This is why I changed to vet bed. I have been applying Gorgeous Guineas' cream which is especially good for bumblefoo
 
gizzy said:
Hi there I was apprehensive about your vet giving steroid injections on an old pig for six consecutive days , as I remember reading about athletes getting problems?

So I looked it up ,

I couldn't find any think relating to Guinea pigs so I looked under these human sites ,

quote >Local corticosteroid injections can have serious septic and aseptic complications. Unquote> must admit I didn't understand most of it lol !
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3394381/at

It might be worth having a word of your vet about this as many of them do not know a great deal about Guinea pigs and if there is no problem with the injections, I would question him about the affects it would have on his immune system, as it is well known that steroid run the immune system down!

I could be totally barking up the wrong tree , but it would do no harm to post two questions to your vet

1=are regular injections going to cause any needle site damage.

2=Given his age are regular steroids going to run his immune system down leaving him vulnerable to other infections
Click to expand...

My vet told me that steroids and piggies don't mix as it really upsets their digestion and allows the gut flora to take over, so only topical steroids should be used.
 
These are my two little horrors; partners in crime and only 6 months of age. They hog the food bowl. In this photo I still had Teddy in with them and so only put hay in the corners so it would stop him from trapping his legs in it when he moved around. I think this is what caused him to have the beginning of bumblefoot and the fact he already had an injured hind leg he put extra pressure on his front legs.
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Here is Teddy trying to hide from the girls and doesn't want them sharing his hidey-hole. They keep nibbling his feet and Sally (nearest to Teddy) who is the most dominant female tends to barber his backside, which isn't normally a problem but as he can't move away quickly at the moment or stand up to her I let Teddy stand on the outside of their playpen until he is better. He seems a little better today. I think the softness under foot has helped and the F&M ointment from Gorgeous Guineas.
image.webp
 
Hi everyone, here's an update: I took Teddy back to the vets yesterday as his hind leg although doesn't seem to be painful as before looks in a peculiar position. I thought he may have torn a ligament or tendon when he injured his leg a few weeks ago but the vet said it was because he has arthritis. I have a gut feeling that he may have a tendon/ligament problem as his leg didn't look like it does now before the injury. He has also had a swollen front right leg and foot and I thought it could be either from the heat pad or a fungal or bacterial injection. I have been putting on Gorgeous Guinea's F&M ointment and at the vets she cut off a bit of skin that had become loose (not a skin tag). This makes me feel even more that it could be from the heat pad or infection. The vet said it's arthritis though. I have been giving him Metacam with no effect so the vet has prescribed Prednisolone 1mg once a day. Although I don't want him in pain I don't like the thought of him having steroid long-term. When Teddy was almost one year old he had his 2nd bout of Bloat and because my local vets didn't know what to do they referred me down to Nantes (I live in France) where there is a specialist vet. Teddy made a turn around on the way back from there and he had no problems with his gut until last December when he developed diarrhoea and impaction after surgery for a testicular tumour. As the local vet wasn't able to sort Teddy out I took it upon myself to contact the vet at Nantes and with his advice and some of my own research Teddy's gut condition normalized but it took until the end of June this year. I have included some photos of Teddy's leg. It looks like it's collapsed and I think Teddy has put added pressure on his front legs. The week before he injured his leg he was pop-corning around in the playpen with the two girls. I did contact the vet in Nantes via email with photos but I was told he was on holiday for two weeks so hopefully next week he will be back.

Teddy is actually in a standing position here
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Teddy's right hind leg in a normal position but holding up his right front leg as that is very painful
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Teddy's left hind leg again sticking out although he is standing
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With the F&M ointment applied to his sore right front leg, the swelling on the toes has reduced. With his hind leg being in such a position and his sore front leg he has difficulty turning around in his cage and tends not to move. I get him out regularly and get him to drink from his bottle, I started to syringe feed him yesterday as he has lost 200g since his injury to his hind leg. I have also put Teddy on fleece with vet bed underneath with towels under that. I give him lots of hay in the corner but he isn't eating it like he normally does. It is so worrying. He only can eat small amounts of veggies due to it giving him diarrhoea in large amounts but he devours what I do give him. He also loves the Oxbow Joint Support. The biscuits are too hard so I put some water on them and break them up and he loves the juice and licks the plate clean. I am not ready to let him die. I know that is a possibility but I must try everything I can to make him comfortable and better.
Read more at: http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/conversations/injury-to-legs.26189/#message-54391
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You are doing everything you can for your little boy. Arthritis is not nice but with pain relief a piggy can be happy.
 
Thank you piggyfan. Can anybody please tell me what they think of his strange positioned leg. Thank you
 
I don't normally comment on these forums but having read this thread, it's interesting to hear that your guinea pigs have experienced similar problems to Pixo, one of my four guinea pigs. About three weeks ago, I noticed that he wasn't venturing out to his run and discovered that he was keeping the weight off one of his front legs meaning he was unable to get around quickly. A visit to the Vets followed and they prescribed a week's worth of painkiller and Metacam after noticing that the front leg was swollen. A week later, there was no real improvement and in fact, the pain seemed to have moved more around his middle and back legs and seemed worse, even though he was using his front leg again. We returned to the Vets to be given the option of an X-ray (at £70, to see if the leg was broken/dislocated) or a repeat prescription. I did neither and came home, looked on the internet and discovered that guinea pigs are the only other beings, than humans, that suffer gout. All the symptoms pointed to gout, joint swelling, hobbling about, not making noises, rough coat. I have now increased the amount of Vitamin C in his diet, red peppers and kale mainly, and the difference in him is amazing! He is back to his normal self and so much happier. Interestingly my other three piggies have had the same diet of lots of greens, as Pixo, and they are not affected. It could be that Pixo is just not digesting vitamin C properly and needs more intake. I just find it really odd that gout wasn't a possibility that was pointed out by the Vet...... a simple change in diet is an easy thing to introduce and much less stressful than an x-ray.
 
Thank you pigspecific for your reply. I'm glad you were able to help your Pixo. I don't know what gout would look like on an x-ray and if it would mimic arthritis. As my Teddy had a chronic problem with his GI system I was giving him high doses of vitamin C. It may be possible that he doesn't absorb nutrients as he should. As the x-ray taken showed signs of arthritis it seems my vet is reluctant to view another possibility. I don't think they get many guinea pigs in at our vet. I have lost confidence with them. Our two year old cat Boris became lame on his hind legs and was in obvious pain in June this year. We took him to the vet and was told it was pain in his stomach. We had told the vet he looked as though his spine was painful, especially as he was having difficulty walking upstairs (the cat that is, not the vet). We ended up seeing another vet when our usual one just sent us home as an x-ray had shown nothing except a slightly enlarged gland in his stomach. It turned out he had cancer and so we were referred to a specialist centre in Auray. They operated and found a lesion wrapped round his spinal cord and he also has feline leukemia and FIV so we were told his prognosis is not good. We opted for chemotherapy and he had it four times in the first month after surgery and now is having it once every three weeks which will go on for a year if he carries on tolerating it as he is. Each time he has to stay in hospital for 24 hours. We aren't insured and so it is breaking us financially, especially with Teddy being ill also.

I have just given Teddy his syringe feed. He isn't too keen on the Critical Care but absolutely loves Excel Guinea Pig nuggets with blackcurrant. I syringe all the juice out of the slop and put the thicker bit left over on a saucer and he gobbles it up. I can't understand why he won't eat by himself as he is obviously hungry.

I keep thinking he looks like he won't last another day and then he perks up when veggies are on offer. I got some flat leaf parsley today for a change from the curly and he squealed with delight. I think losing so much weight has sapped his strength as well as the pain but I think feeding him is giving him some energy.

When I took Teddy to the vet yesterday I had to ask her to check his weight and heart. These are things she should do automatically. I was worried that he may have a heart problem as I had read that bumblefoot can be caused by a heart problem. Apart from being fast it was ok.

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I fed Teddy at 4am but he wasn't very keen and looked awful until I introduced a stalk of parsley and then he perked up. I'm not sure if it was because he was tired or is dying. I weighed him also and his weight has gone up to just over 700g and has stayed at that for two days now as he was losing on a daily basis before.

I am wondering if anybody else has any experience with gout like 'pigspecific' has. If it mimics arthritis and whether x-rays distinguish between arthritis and gout. Also, what treatment is there. I give vitamin C already so wonder if there is any medication for guinea pigs with gout, if that is what Teddy may have.
 
I'm not sure about gout, but if it was solved with an increase in vitamin C, then it sounds more like scurvy (neither humans or guinea pigs can make their own vitamin C so have to have it as part of our diets). As I understand it gout is a form of arthritis caused by crystals of uric acid froming around the joints. The body breaks down chemicals called purines, found in food, into uric acid. The food that are high in purines do not form part of a guinea pigs diet.

Symptoms of scurvy in guinea pigs are loss of appetite, stiffness and swollen joints, bleeding form the gums, hopping and signs of pain. It's always worth increasing a older pig's vit C level, but I don't think scurvy is the problem here. That leg is at a strange angle and I would suggest getting the x-ray to make sure there's not fracture or other bone problem, although it is a lot of money. You need to weigh up what you will gain from the x-ray against the cost. It would be worth discussing the possible diagnoses and treament options with the vet.

Ultimately it's about quality of life and you are the best person to judge whether Teddy is in too much pain. You are doing everything you can for him. I'm sending hugs and healing vibes. xx
 
Thank you Elwickcavies for your reply. Teddy had an x-ray a couple of weeks ago and the vet said he has arthritis with no break or fracture. His apparent leg injury came on suddenly and his leg wasn't in that position before and that is why I asked my vet if she thought he could have injured the tendon or ligament in his leg. Teddy has been having added vitamin C for a year now so I wouldn't think that is the problem. My vet didn't even mention syringe feeding when she saw his weight had plummeted.

I have given him a syringe feed this morning and will be giving him another in a while. I have gone back to the Critical Care as he showed little interest in the mushed pellets. He would gorge on parsley but he can't have too much as veggies give him diarrhoea so I give him little and often to encourage him to eat his syringe feeds.

I will contact the specialist vet in Nantes on Monday as he should be back off holiday. It is a four hour round trip but they have specialist guinea pig and rabbit vets and thoroughly examine animals to rule out all possibilities. With our cat having cancer and Teddy being poorly we have spent 4000 euros since the end of June and we are retired so have exhausted all our savings. We don't mind spending the money to help our pets but it's such a worry. I feel that seeing the specialist vet he will get to the bottom of Teddy's problem as they did when he had bloat in his first year when our own local vet couldn't and just sent me home as there was nothing more he said he could do.

I read about guinea pigs getting gout and it is a form of arthritis so I think my vet could have tested a sample of Teddy's blood to rule it out or if the medication for gout isn't harmful then she could have tried that to see if it had an effect as the steroid medication doesn't seem to be working on Teddy's swollen front leg as he is still holding it up and is reluctant to put his weight on it.

I have noticed he is curling up when he lies down. My other guinea pigs lie down stretched out. He also isn't eating his hay as he normally does. He loves hay usually but just nibbles it a short while and then goes to sleep.
 
I really hope you can get to the bottom of it. You are doing the right thing, hand feeding him. He'll need to keep his strength up. Please let us know how he gets on. x
 
cochondinde said:
Thank you Elwickcavies for your reply. Teddy had an x-ray a couple of weeks ago and the vet said he has arthritis with no break or fracture. His apparent leg injury came on suddenly and his leg wasn't in that position before and that is why I asked my vet if she thought he could have injured the tendon or ligament in his leg. Teddy has been having added vitamin C for a year now so I wouldn't think that is the problem. My vet didn't even mention syringe feeding when she saw his weight had plummeted.

I have given him a syringe feed this morning and will be giving him another in a while. I have gone back to the Critical Care as he showed little interest in the mushed pellets. He would gorge on parsley but he can't have too much as veggies give him diarrhoea so I give him little and often to encourage him to eat his syringe feeds.

I will contact the specialist vet in Nantes on Monday as he should be back off holiday. It is a four hour round trip but they have specialist guinea pig and rabbit vets and thoroughly examine animals to rule out all possibilities. With our cat having cancer and Teddy being poorly we have spent 4000 euros since the end of June and we are retired so have exhausted all our savings. We don't mind spending the money to help our pets but it's such a worry. I feel that seeing the specialist vet he will get to the bottom of Teddy's problem as they did when he had bloat in his first year when our own local vet couldn't and just sent me home as there was nothing more he said he could do.

I read about guinea pigs getting gout and it is a form of arthritis so I think my vet could have tested a sample of Teddy's blood to rule it out or if the medication for gout isn't harmful then she could have tried that to see if it had an effect as the steroid medication doesn't seem to be working on Teddy's swollen front leg as he is still holding it up and is reluctant to put his weight on it.

I have noticed he is curling up when he lies down. My other guinea pigs lie down stretched out. He also isn't eating his hay as he normally does. He loves hay usually but just nibbles it a short while and then goes to sleep.
Click to expand...
 
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