Bitten by a teddy!

[Rebeccastro]

Hi there, I've been meaning to join this forum for some time. I have not long since got two lovely teddy boars. They're lovely and cuddly, give kisses etc.

However, I have been noticing they're 'arguing' a lot, chatter their teeth, swing their buns at each other - I've researched this & it says they're probably competing for dominance. Given they're just four months old I also assume they maybe going through puberty?

The mood changed last night when I heard them fighting in their cage (converted dog cage - quite big!) it sounded as if they were rolling around the cage in a ball banging off all sides of it! So I went in to make sure they were both okay. They had stopped fighting, no blood etc so I put my hand in to scurry Sheldon (the less dominant of the two) up the stairs for time apart. However Bruce turned to go for Sheldon whilst my hand was already in the cage shooing Sheldon up the stairs. Long story short Bruce attached himself to my hand, with his mouth. I ended up at the hospital, the bite was right down to my tendons, they wouldn't stitch as it was an animal bite. But what I'm more worried about it is Bruce's behaviour.

Could anybody give me advice as to what to do next? I am worried that, that bite was meant for Sheldon. I do think the angle of my hand didn't help and that's probably why I have such a deep wound. I also know I shouldn't have put my hand in! Learnt the hard way. I understand I should put a towel or something on them to separate them?

Thank you in advance from any replies.

 

[Rodentopia]

Rule of thumb is never put your hand between two warring piggies, had a bite myself but wasn't that bad just surface but still hurt but nowhere near as bad as yours. It sounds like they are going through the hormonal stage and this is make or break for many boars. Some make it through best of friends and others fall out and have to be parted. You need to establish how bad the fighting is, if blood is drawn you need to separate them. Teeth chattering is a warning as is the bum swinging, the teeth chattering is a warning to keep away and if they other piggy comes to close they will bum swing it can progress from here to chasing and fighting as you have seen. You need to closely monitor them now any sign of a fight split them up as piggies can fight to the death.

Can I ask how big your cage is? Boys bigger is better to get away from each other especially when they are younger, once they get past puberty and have calmed down sharing things is less of an issue but younger boys I find fair better with two of everything.

Sorry about your hand, hope you are ok

 

[Wiebke]

I am very sorry for you ending up with a bite; they are very painful! I hope that it will heal properly. A piggy once roused will take time to calm down and they can bite deeply if they are so minded!

You can give both boys time to calm down separately for a night or a day, then give them a bath to wash off any testosterone stink and try intros on neutral ground again if you want to give them one last chance.
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/...FAQ-Introducing-and-reintroducing-guinea-pigs
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?28949-Boars!-Simple-Dominance-Displays-or-Fighting

However, from what you are saying, it sounds very borderline and you will have to have an oven glove at the ready! They have hit the big hormones and they may not work out as a pair. Before trying a re-introduction, I would make arrangements for the realistic case that they will not get on anymore and will need to be spearated permanently. While teddies are gorgeous piggies (I have three girls), they are not exactly known for a gentle temperament.

There are several options for you if your boys are not working out:

- they can live next to each other with interaction through grids, bars and mesh for the rest of their life; but this means that they will have to live as singles. A few boars will get on as adults, but the majority won't.

- you can try to rebond each boar at a good rescue under expert supervision with a character compatible rescue boar. This will maximise your chances of success and minimise your risk of ending up with even more problems. A rescue will also support you if you run into further trouble along the line. They will make sure that there is ideally a good age gap to minimise the opportinuties for more hormonal fighting. Some rescues offer full residential dating, which is by far the safest option, as any successful bonding will be supervised for several days - but there may be a waiting list and some travel for you. Other rescues offer speed dating with a young boar, which will carry a certain risk when the youngster hit his own big hormones.
Here is the Piggy Bank map of recommended (and vetted) good standard, practice and ethics rescues, most of who offer boar dating in some form: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=209994852075231951564.0004b8fd9391b4257d8eb&msa=0
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?59233-Boar-Dating-Service-Wales

- the third option is neutering and then bonding each with a character compatible sow. Cross gender bonds are the most stable piggy bond and often very loving; a "husboar" is generally a very happy piggy. I also recommend dating at a good a rescue under expert supervision; not all sows and boars will gel, but you will see how well it goes within 20 minutes of first interaction. Dating any piggy for character compatibility can really make all the difference and is well worth the travel!
As your boys are hitting the hormones, they are also reaching the age where they can be neutered. However, you will need an experienced vet with a good track record in piggy neutering for this, as otherwise the risk of post op complications is a lot higher (and can easily end up with a multiple of the original operation cost, not to mention the heartbreak for you if things turn fatal). Even the best vet will tell you that you can never fully eliminate all risk.
You will also have to factor in a full 6 weeks post op wait until each boar is 100% safe to live with a sow. I have a surprise baby from an over 5 weeks post op boar (not one of mine), just to prove that particular point!
Here is our members' map of recommended piggy savvy vets: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=204458758673513849635.0004e111354a528da0dbb&msa=0

Please take your time to research all options so you can weigh up the advantages, disadvantages and risks involved with each way. There is unfortunately no ideal solution.

PS: We would be grateful if you added you country, state (US) or general area (UK) to your details, so we can give you the appropriate advice and - if possible - local recommendations straight away.
You can do so in forum/private messages (on top bar)/my settings/edit profile/location.

 

[Rebeccastro]

Thank you both for your replies, the cage is 36" with two floors + they get outside & floor time every day so to keep them active and preoccupied.
Unfortunately tonight, after bathing them from taking your advice, Bruce attacked Sheldon and they had a fight in a ball so I've had to resort to putting Sheldon in a rat cage for the night which isn't ideal at all & I feel really really horrid. He hasn't complained though & seems calm and happy to be away from Bruce. It's just I know he hasn't got enough space in that cage.

I'm in two minds, should I keep him in the rat cage for the night then try introduce them tomorrow? Or pop him back in with Bruce now? I think I know they won't be able to live with each other longterm. Bruce is just far too dominant. He's fine when he's in the run outside though! :-( really at a loss.

Any helpful advice would again be appreciated.

With kind regards.

 

[Guinea-pigGaga]

I believe that it is largely accepted/recommended that the minimum cage size for two guinea pigs is 4' x 2' x 1.5'. . . Although, if you are able to provide more space, your guinea pigs would greatly benefit! However, I believe that your cage is under the recommended minimum cage size. . . Therefore, I do question whether providing Bruce, and Sheldon with more space would resolve the current behavioural issue/s?!

I would not recommend introducing Bruce, or Sheldon again until you are able to provide larger accommodation - One part of me feels that Bruce, and Sheldon are not destined to be companions, but than another part of me feels that you may have a good combination. . . It sounds as though Bruce is dominant, and Sheldon is submissive?! And the fact that Bruce does not show this dominant behaviour whilst in the run would support an argument for more space - I would imagine that the outside run is larger than their indoor accommodation?!

 

[Rebeccastro]

I already have a bigger cage coming, to which I may even attach to the one I have currently to give even more space.

I was wondering whether it was a space issue. I don't want to really split them up, but for safety I'd rather do what's right by them.

What's guinea pig dating? I don't quite understand - sorry quite new to all of this!

Thanks

 

[Rodentopia]

It could be the size of the cage as 100cm is too small for two young boars, a cage needs to be 120cm minimum and even then with two boars bigger is better. If they continue to fight then your best option is to split as once blood is drawn they will rarely tolerate each other again. Boar dating is where you take your existing boar to a reputable rescue and they match him up to another boar and introduce them for you. Saves you a lot of heartache if you don't know what you are doing and also maximises the chance of finding your piggy a compatible friend

 

[Wiebke]

I wouldn't think that they will go back together even with a bigger cage; not if they are fighting so quickly after getting back together!

I am very sorry, it is always a very gutting experience for any caring owner to find that any piggies of yours don't get on.

 

[Rebeccastro]

So I've decided not to give up on my piggies relationship. They're currently in the garden in their run popcorning running around after each other, so I went and bought a two tier outside hutch - it's huge, I think it gives them around 120cm on each floor (approx) it looks lovely. But I'm keeping them inside still in their new hutch. I've just put all their beds and fleece etc in for wash. I'm hoping it works. If not at least I can cover up where the staircase is and they'll still have a lovely amount of space to play.

I'd just like to thank you all for your advice, I was so panicked, you've all been stars :-) I hope to become a part of this little community.

Thank you again x

 

[Rebeccastro]

I'm sorry to be posting again, but I thought I'd give a quick update! Bruce and Sheldon are in their new big hutch and have been great! No fights no nothing :-) they've got 120cm+ on each floor and so far have stayed on separate floors to one and other, they've had their veggies & are now snuggled up in bed. I'm so happy. I'm hoping this means in the long run everything will be okay :-) boys eh?!

I shall be posting some pictures of them in the appropriate parts of the forum soon so you can see my cuties :-) hope you are all well & thank you all again for everyone's help and advice xx

 

[Rodentopia]

I'm glad things have calmed down, it might have been a space issue especially as you said they got on fine in the large pen. I have found with two floors boars can lead separate lives and come together when they choose, all my c&c cages have two floors found it can work wonders. The good thing like you said is if they continue to squabble you have the option to separate them if needs be. Fingers crossed it remains peaceful for you all xx