Bladder sludge or just calcium?

[Josie_lg]

Hiya just on here for some advice!
How do I know if my girl has bladder sludge or just too much calcium in her wees. She is currently being treated for a really nasty UTI/cystitis. And I’ve now started noticing she is excreting a lot of calcium deposits that are now starting to feel very slightly gritty. She has stopped bleeding when weeing now but is still crying.
Has anyone treated bladder sludge effectively without using the surgical bladder flush route. The risks are so large of that procedure it worries me.
I’m now starting to feel like maybe it’s this gritty calcium that irritated her bladder and caused the cystitis. But how do I eliminate it completely? x

 

[RosieLily]

Hey you! I will answer your Q regarding bladder sludge and its treatment, I'm sure you will get more replies/answers soon though

My girls were both dealing with bladder sludge at the same time. I cut down their pellets to a little less than a tablespoon and upped their water as much as possible. I left their veg wet, gave tons of cucumber, syringed them extra water with a very small amount of critical care in it for taste. They loved it! I also upped their vitamin-C intake with drops. It's been a little over a month since their diagnosis, Lily is completely fine, Rosie still very rarely passes some through and I can hear her complain a little bit. It does take a while. We have another check-up at the vets in 2 weeks.

Have your girls been x-rayed for stones, had their wee samples taken to see about the crystals in their wee?

Hope your little one gets better asap!

 

[Josie_lg]

Hey you! I will answer your Q regarding bladder sludge and its treatment, I'm sure you will get more replies/answers soon though

My girls were both dealing with bladder sludge at the same time. I cut down their pellets to a little less than a tablespoon and upped their water as much as possible. I left their veg wet, gave tons of cucumber, syringed them extra water with a very small amount of critical care in it for taste. They loved it! I also upped their vitamin-C intake with drops. It's been a little over a month since their diagnosis, Lily is completely fine, Rosie still very rarely passes some through and I can hear her complain a little bit. It does take a while. We have another check-up at the vets in 2 weeks.

Have your girls been x-rayed for stones, had their wee samples taken to see about the crystals in their wee?

Hope your little one gets better asap!

Thank you for your reply. This is a big help. Yes she has had an X-ray and stones have been ruled out. She was diagnosed with cystitis/UTI a week ago and she has improved on the antibiotics but is still crying when weeing which is just so sad.
She’s only just started producing the gritty calcium so I want to get it under control before it gets worse. The water filter is coming today. I wet their veggies anyway and am cutting out pellets from her diet while she has this.
This is a good idea about adding Critical care to the water. It’s a big worry atm
But I hope with this new filter it will prevent all the yuckiness forming

 

[RosieLily]

Thank you for your reply. This is a big help. Yes she has had an X-ray and stones have been ruled out. She was diagnosed with cystitis/UTI a week ago and she has improved on the antibiotics but is still crying when weeing which is just so sad.
She’s only just started producing the gritty calcium so I want to get it under control before it gets worse. The water filter is coming today. I wet their veggies anyway and am cutting out pellets from her diet while she has this.
This is a good idea about adding Critical care to the water. It’s a big worry atm
But I hope with this new filter it will prevent all the yuckiness forming

Ah, completely forgot about the filter! In my city the water is very good so luckily I never had to use it! I do hope things get better, fingers and paws crossed on my end!

 

[Wiebke]

Hiya just on here for some advice!
How do I know if my girl has bladder sludge or just too much calcium in her wees. She is currently being treated for a really nasty UTI/cystitis. And I’ve now started noticing she is excreting a lot of calcium deposits that are now starting to feel very slightly gritty. She has stopped bleeding when weeing now but is still crying.
Has anyone treated bladder sludge effectively without using the surgical bladder flush route. The risks are so large of that procedure it worries me.
I’m now starting to feel like maybe it’s this gritty calcium that irritated her bladder and caused the cystitis. But how do I eliminate it completely? x

Hi!

Please have your piggy seen by a vet, have the urine tested for content of crystals and infection markers. It would also be good to have an x-ray done if there is firm indication of sludge or a bladder stone.
Without access to your piggy and being neither trained nor having the disagnostics available, we cannot replace a hands-on vet examination.

Any larger amount of sludge or any stone as a result of excess calcium production may actually not require a flush but an operation; especially a tightly packed bladder or a real stone. The measures that @RosieLily has described are working only for the very mild cases but are completely ineffective against more major cases. please be careful to not force any water down an unwilling piggy. Over-hydration can kill.

Please be aware that sludge and stones usually don't disappear on their own (unless in the most minor cases) and that a secondary bacterial cystitis/bladder trauma as a result will require both antibiotics and an analgesic like metacam (or a generic brand) to heal.
If you are really scared of a bladder flush, you can always ask your vet for alternatives as any procedure will need your signature on the consent form but your fear should not prevent you from seeking any necessary diagnostics and any necessary care/operative measures.

Please be aware that diet and glucosamine are your best weapons for the long term but they take weeks to kick in; the diet for the calcium balance and the glucosamine for comfort as the natural glucosamine coating of the urinary tract the prevents corrive urine from coming into direct contact with raw tissue is battered every time your piggy makes a pee.
Keep in mind that water and pellets are the main calcium sources in a diet, not veg. As long as you do not address the diet properly for the long term, production of any stones/sludge will continue and the problem will get worse rather than better.
Here is more detailed information (see chapter special diets): Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

It is also worth noting that the calcium absorption process is much more complex than most people imagine and that we cannot control all factors involved. Stones and sludge are often the result of several contributing factors combining from environmental ones (diet) to a genetic disposition or simply part of the process going haywire.

PS: I am lucky to have access to a good guinea pig vet. It has meant that my Cariad lived another 2 years after her calcium absorption process suddenly flipped and she produced a large stone in a matter of weeks. She needed regular flushes every few months. I did manage to get the calcium overproduction down and the intervals between flushes longer but I was never able to completely stop it. But without her regular flushes she would never have reached the age of 5 years; especially as she needed an emergency spay just a few months after her bladder stone op when her womb suddenly went badly wrong. She was just 700g but sailed through both her ops.

 

[Josie_lg]

Hiya! I feel like I’m always posting on here I’m so sorry.
My girl had a scan last night and has been diagnosed with bladder sludge. Not severe enough for a procedure. But I’ve been told to keep her fluids up. She is already on antibiotics, metacam, probiotics and nutracyst, as she also had cystitis/UTI which I now expect was caused by this sludge.
We’ve just got a water filter, I’m trying to keep her active and be careful what I’m feeding her-is romaine lettuce ok to feed? Because I’ve heard a mixture of opinions:/
Any advice from anyone dealing with a bladder sludge piggie please help, she is still quiet and sad in herself but is eating and pooping. She has moments where she is sad and others she is squeaking for food. The blood in her urine has stopped, and she isn’t crying as much when weeing.
PS kidneys were fine and no stones x

 

[Josie_lg]

Also, she has been sadder since her scan. I was with when she had it and it took the vet a while to find the kidneys and because her bladder is sore she really didn’t like it. And since the scan she’s been much sadder than before the scan, I think it must be the stress poor thing. But it’s horrible to see her poops are also softer again I think maybe due to the meds or stress from the scan. Hopefully the probiotics will help this

 

[Swissgreys]

It may just take her a few days to settle down.

With my bladder sludge piggy one thing that helped was rinsing all her veggies quite liberally with filtered water and serving them quite wet (on a plate).

 

[Josie_lg]

Hiya my girl has been diagnosed with bladder sludge, she has been having treatment for a UTI and cystitis for the last two weeks too. I would just like to know what’s normal and what’s not really. She still crying when passing anything and looks really unfortable, she’s just this evening started to pass blood again. I am gutted before tonight the last time she passed blood was last Saturday. Could this be that the sludge has rubbed against her bladder and triggered cystitis again? How long does this normally take to clear?
I can imagine she is just going to keep getting infections and cystitis until the sludge is cleared?
She is on antibiotics, pain relief/antiflammatory, nutracyst and probiotics.
She has had her uterus and kidneys checked also. Had two x rays and 3 ultrasounds.
i just feel so sad as she was doing so well last week and improving so much. And today I feel as if we are back at the beginning again.
Has anyone had a piggie have bladder sludge with UTI/cystitis also?
Any advice is welcome. I’m doing all I can for her but feel so defeated tonight xx

 

[Wiebke]

Hiya my girl has been diagnosed with bladder sludge, she has been having treatment for a UTI and cystitis for the last two weeks too. I would just like to know what’s normal and what’s not really. She still crying when passing anything and looks really unfortable, she’s just this evening started to pass blood again. I am gutted before tonight the last time she passed blood was last Saturday. Could this be that the sludge has rubbed against her bladder and triggered cystitis again? How long does this normally take to clear?
I can imagine she is just going to keep getting infections and cystitis until the sludge is cleared?
She is on antibiotics, pain relief/antiflammatory, nutracyst and probiotics.
She has had her uterus and kidneys checked also. Had two x rays and 3 ultrasounds.
i just feel so sad as she was doing so well last week and improving so much. And today I feel as if we are back at the beginning again.
Has anyone had a piggie have bladder sludge with UTI/cystitis also?
Any advice is welcome. I’m doing all I can for her but feel so defeated tonight xx

Hi!

As long as the sludge is still in the bladder, symptoms won't go away on their own - the sludge won't just disappear on its own and the ongoing irritation will continue to irritate the bladder. Unfortunately stones and sludge very rarely do.

I am very sorry; but if things are not getting any better, you will have to at some point commit to a bladder op if you do not want to risk a bladder flush. Unfortunately, you are up against a health issue where you will have to put your piggy's welfare before your own fears and anxieties if it is very obviously not sorting itself out, as is becoming more obvious now. I am very sorry not to have any better news for you.

My advice over the last week is still standing. I would like to ask you to PLEASE keep all updates and further developments to one ongoing support thread so we have all relevant information together and are not repeating the same standard advice all over again or give you conflicting information, which helps nobody; least of you.

Please accept that we are all doing this for free in our often scarce free time. The easier you can make it for us, the more threads we can answer in detail. We are not part of social media but we cannot offer you the kind of ongoing support we are able to unless you are helping us by keeping all information together.

You can always pick up a thread of yours by clicking on Find Thread/Your threads by the top bar.

Thank you.

 

[Josie_lg]

Hi!

As long as the sludge is still in the bladder, symptoms won't go away on their own - the sludge won't just disappear on its own and the ongoing irritation will continue to irritate the bladder. Unfortunately stones and sludge very rarely do.

I am very sorry; but if things are not getting any better, you will have to at some point commit to a bladder op if you do not want to risk a bladder flush. Unfortunately, you are up against a health issue where you will have to put your piggy's welfare before your own fears and anxieties if it is very obviously not sorting itself out, as is becoming more obvious now. I am very sorry not to have any better news for you.

My advice over the last week is still standing. I would like to ask you to PLEASE keep all updates and further developments to one ongoing support thread so we have all relevant information together and are not repeating the same standard advice all over again or give you conflicting information, which helps nobody; least of you.

Please accept that we are all doing this for free in our often scarce free time. The easier you can make it for us, the more threads we can answer in detail. We are not part of social media but we cannot offer you the kind of ongoing support we are able to unless you are helping us by keeping all information together.

You can always pick up a thread of yours by clicking on Find Thread/Your threads by the top bar.

Thank you.

Hiya thank you so much for your reply. Of course my Guinea pigs welfare will always come before my own worries, they are my everything and I always do everything I can for them. I had a discussion with an exotic vet who didn’t feel it was right to perform an op or flush on her at the moment and wanted us to try keeping her fluids up and flushing it out. I have been told this may take a while. She will be having a repeat ultrasound next week and if we need to do something further I will be finding an exotic vet with experience doing that procedure as it’s not common in our area. She has been passing lots of the sludge over the last day or two so I hope it is all coming out now, as there was only a small amount present on the scan, and I was present in the room for this so was able to see the images.
also, it feels less gritty now so I hope the filtered water is starting to take effect
thank you again for your help and I’m so sorry for not continuing my queries on the same thread I didn’t know you link them together. So sorry for the confusion x

 

[Wiebke]

Fingers crossed. Thank you for the update. We can only ever make an assessment on the basis of your information and there didn't seem to be any progress. That is one of the reasons why keeping it all together is crucial for ongoing support - we can refer back and refresh our own memory at any point as we jump between lots of different threads whenever one of us is coming on.

Please be aware that the bladder trauma (the damage to the bladder) can become much more noticeable once a stone/sludge is out. You may want to discuss with your vet how much you can up the metacam.

Have you started on the glucosamine yet because that is going to be instrumental in helping to repair the bladder and urinary tract.

 

[Josie_lg]

Fingers crossed. Thank you for the update. We can only ever make an assessment on the basis of your information and there didn't seem to be any progress. That is one of the reasons why keeping it all together is crucial for ongoing support - we can refer back and refresh our own memory at any point as we jump between lots of different threads whenever one of us is coming on.

Please be aware that the bladder trauma (the damage to the bladder) can become much more noticeable once a stone/sludge is out. You may want to discuss with your vet how much you can up the metacam.

Have you started on the glucosamine yet because that is going to be instrumental in helping to repair the bladder and urinary tract.

She is on nutracyst I believe that has glucosamine in? However I may be wrong. She is on a very high dose of cat/piggie metacam. The highest the vet can put her on that is licensed for. I am in a fortunate position that I work in a vets and so I have friends I can message and an out of hours vets we can get her to if needed. There is a very good exotics specialist not too far away who I can take her to for a second opinion if no improvements are seen. But the exotic vets seeing her atm haven’t indicated when I should see change or how long it can take....which I why I often come to this forum for advice.
thank you again for your help. Your advice is always so thorough x

 

[Wiebke]

She is on nutracyst I believe that has glucosamine in? However I may be wrong. She is on a very high dose of cat/piggie metacam. The highest the vet can put her on that is licensed for. I am in a fortunate position that I work in a vets and so I have friends I can message and an out of hours vets we can get her to if needed. There is a very good exotics specialist not too far away who I can take her to for a second opinion if no improvements are seen. But the exotic vets seeing her atm haven’t indicated when I should see change or how long it can take....which I why I often come to this forum for advice.
thank you again for your help. Your advice is always so thorough x

Unfortunately, every case is different, so we can't give you firm time lines. You have to play it by ear.

We have seen several cases on here where the bladder was so tightly packed with sludge that an operation was the only option, so there is a wide spectrum which we cannot judge on without direct access to the piggy and only relying on the quality and extent of the information given by the owner - which includes their own perception and emotional tinging of their posts...

Right now, it is very much a waiting game whether the bladder sludge can come all out and how the bladder will react to the lessening impact of the sludge banging against the walls.
Diet and glucosamine bladder support take their time to build up and be processed through the body; that will take a few weeks. This is not a quick, easy healing process but a longer game and there may be times when things look worse instead of better although they will get there eventually. Just hang on in there. Your piggy is getting everything they need right now.

PS: Yes, nutracyst contains glucosamine.

 

[Josie_lg]

Unfortunately, every case is different, so we can't give you firm time lines. You have to play it by ear.

We have seen several cases on here where the bladder was so tightly packed with sludge that an operation was the only option, so there is a wide spectrum which we cannot judge on without direct access to the piggy and only relying on the quality and extent of the information given by the owner - which includes their own perception and emotional tinging of their posts...

Right now, it is very much a waiting game whether the bladder sludge can come all out and how the bladder will react to the lessening impact of the sludge banging against the walls.
Diet and glucosamine bladder support take their time to build up and be processed through the body; that will take a few weeks. This is not a quick, easy healing process but a longer game and there may be times when things look worse instead of better although they will get there eventually. Just hang on in there. Your piggy is getting everything they need right now.

PS: Yes, nutracyst contains glucosamine.

Thank you so very much for this message. This is what I needed to hear right now
she is having good and bad days, some days she cries when weeing more than others. She is still passing the sludge and occasionally a small amount of blood but nothing compared to the first week of her being poorly. I’m hoping as the days go by and the sludge is lessening that her bladder will hopefully have some time to heal as I assume her poor bladder is going to keep having cystitis until the sludge goes with it rubbing up against her already damaged bladder wall.
thank you again, although I wish it was a quick fix it’s nice to hear that I’m doing everything I can x