Bladder stone - contemplating surgery

[velveteenery]

Hello, dear guinea pig forum community,

My sweet Sassafras (Sassy) went into the vet this morning after I could tell she was in pain and was reluctant with her veggies (big red flag!). She was diagnosed with bloat and her Xrays also showed mineralization (I think is the right word?) in her bladder as well as a bladder stone. I will try to post a pic of the xray when they send it to me.

My first order of business is supporting her through bloat. I went through this with Rosemary back in July (and this community was so supportive and helpful! Rosemary by the way is doing fabulously!). Sassy is on metacam (increased dose- she's on it at .17 mL regularly for arthritis), metoclopramide, simethicone. I am also administering critical care once every 1-2 hours right now. She's pooping and peeing and nibbling on some hay and drinking here and there, and definitely seems in less pain.

I would love some support from folks on the bladder stones and considerations on this. Sassy is at least 4, we think (got her from a rescue so they're not sure). I don't know how risky a surgery would be to remove the stone. Does anyone have a sense of the prognosis of how often the procedure is successful for these little ones? Or other things that can help with bladder stones?

I would love any input. I took a look at the practical and sensitive guide to dying, which was very helpful. I don't know a lot about bladder stones, so maybe just needing some info to inform my mental calculus of if it's worth the risk for my Sassy girl. Attaching a picture of her

Thank you guinea pig sages

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this.

First, regarding the bloat, make sure you are weighing her each morning so you can monitor her syringe feed intake and keep her weight stable.

What dose is metacam is she on? The boar and the stone will be painful so it needs to be a decent sized dose.
How many times a day? Pain meds should be twice a day for piggies due to their fast metabolism

We actually don’t recommend simethicone as it gather gas into a big bubble which is fine for human babies to pass but can actually make things worse for piggies.

The stone. It all rather depends on the experience of the vet, sassy’s general health, and the size of the stone. Often the only way out for a stone, particularity if it is a big one, is with surgery. The prognosis is rather a conversation for you to have with your vet in your specific circumstances. You will find many threads on stone surgery if you run a forum search.

There is nothing that can be done to help with existing stones - quite simply, they have to come out either by being tiny and then able to pass in a sow or via surgery.

It would be a good idea to review her diet. While nothing can be done for an existing stone, a diet which has the calcium and oxalate intake balance wrong will result in sludge and stone formation. There is also a genetic element though which obviously you can do nothing about.
Make sure pellets are kept limited to one tablespoon per pig per day a water is filtered. Also make sure high calcium and oxalate veg is not fed or not fed frequently (no more than once a week) - things such as kale, spinach, parsley.

The guides below will help with further information

Thread 'Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones'

May 29, 2024

1 The Urinary Tract
2 Pees
- Water intake changes
- Pee discoloration
3 Infections
- Bacterial urine infection (UTI)
- Bacterial cystitis
- Sterile cystitis (interstitial cystitis or IC)
4 Stones, Sludge and Crystals
- Crystals, stones and sludge
- Stone and sludge removal
5 Kidneys...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Wiebke's Guides to the Body

Thread 'Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support'

Jun 20, 2024

1 Weight and Weight Loss
- Why regular weight monitoring matters
- How weight changes over a lifetime
- How to weigh on your kitchen scales (with video)
- The weight loss rules
- How critical is the weight loss for my piggy?
- Possible causes for weight loss
2 Body Mass Index (BMI) or 'Heft'
- Why is understanding your piggy's weight so important?
- 'Average' weight vs. individual weight - the big trip up
- How to check for the BMI...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Health & Illness Support Corner

• 
• 

Thread 'Digestive Disorders: Not Eating - Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement)'

Oct 23, 2017

1 Not eating (anorexia) and the importance of syringe feeding fibre
2 Soft poos and runny diarrhea
3 Acute bloat (severe dysbiosis) - blockage - twisted gut - persistent milder bloating
4 GI stasis (no gut movement)


Severe runny diarrhea, bloat, blockage or a twisted gut, GI stasis and excessive salivating in guinea pigs that are not eating are absolute life and death emergencies that need to be seen ASAP by an out-of-hours vet at any time of the day or night or that should be seen by a vet as soon as you can get an appointment outside the UK...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Wiebke's Home Care Guides

• 

 

[Melxava]

Hey. Our late boy Riley was an Abyssinian piggy. He was approx 3.5yrs when we noticed he began stretching his back legs out oddly. We took him to the vet who, after various tests, discovered a bladder stone. This was January 2021. The advice we were given was to manage his discomfort with daily metacam and if it was felt that he was getting worse, to consider other options. They considered the surgery too risky for him. Riley continued to live his life happily with his pal Kevin, receiving metacam once daily. Maintaining his weight and continuing to popcorn at the sound of a crinkled packet. On the morning of 3rd July 2021 we discovered him tucked in his bed having passed away overnight. Kevin was in his cosy pod beside him. It seemed he passed away peacefully in his sleep.

Every piggy’s situation is different, but the right decision for us was to make him comfortable for the duration of his life and to decide on next steps if he began to deteriorate.

Xx

 

[velveteenery]

Thank you Piggies&buns! I took a look at those guides from Wiebke, as well (y'all are amazing, compiling all of this!). Yes I will ensure that I weigh her daily to monitor if she's maintaining or losing weight, and that is good to know about the simethicone. She is currently getting 0.3 mL of metacam twice a day! I have been feeding some kale and parsley on and off (cycled in with red leaf and green leaf lettuce and bell peppers, mainly) so I'll decrease those two veggies significantly and will give filtered water instead of tap.

And thank you Melxava, I appreciate that insight and your experience with this.

Just trying to orient to all of this so I can make informed decisions for my girl.

 

[Gem789]

Hi,I do hope Sassy will be ok.My late Poppy was 8 years old when she had bladder stone surgery and although it was slow she recovered remarkably well.

 

[velveteenery]

Thank you, Gem789! That is good to hear!

 

[velveteenery]

Here are Sassy's xrays by the way!

 

[VickiA]

@Piggies&buns is quite right, that success in stone surgery is multifactorial – dependent upon the size and location of the stone, the general health of the sow, and the experience of the Vet. There are many members on this forum who have opted for surgery and have successfully nursed their piggies back to health. I have only had two experiences myself with stones in sows. In one case the stone was in the urethra and the vet was able to manipulate it out. In the other case, my piggy was listed for surgery but deteriorated extremely rapidly before the surgery could be carried out and had to be put to sleep.
I think it is best first of all for you to nurse your girl through this episode of bloat and then to discuss with your Vet her general condition, the particular circumstances of her stone and the likelihood of a successful recovery. Whatever you decide, we are here as a Forum to support you.

 

[Merab]

All I can offer you is support.
Holding you in my heart

 

[velveteenery]

Thank you so much, Merab!

For now, Sassy seems to be doing okay. She's eating well and maintaining weight and is getting some of her spunk back. So grateful. Just trying to enjoy my time with her and not overthink (which is really hard for me!).

We have follow-up with vet on Tuesday - this vet is her regular vet and has more experience with exotics so I'm looking forward to hearing his perspective on the matter.

Lydia

 

[weepweeps]

Thank you so much, Merab!

For now, Sassy seems to be doing okay. She's eating well and maintaining weight and is getting some of her spunk back. So grateful. Just trying to enjoy my time with her and not overthink (which is really hard for me!).

We have follow-up with vet on Tuesday - this vet is her regular vet and has more experience with exotics so I'm looking forward to hearing his perspective on the matter.

Lydia

Good luck on Tuesday

 

[Merab]

Will be thinking of you on Tuesday

 

[velveteenery]

Good morning everyone! I am absolutely THRILLED to report that Sassy passed her stone yesterday! Look at this thing. Penny beside it for comparison. I am so relieved! She does have a bit of blood in her urine which I imagine is from the process of passing the stone. I have follow-up w/ the vet Friday and he's going to call me today to check in as well. She's still on a .3ml metacam dose. I'm so sad she had to go through this but so relieved it's out! Thank you guys so much for your support and recommendations. I am going to keep up the same care regimen we've been doing to hopefully keep another one from forming and help her keep moving the sludge through. We've been doing filtered water, extra floor time to encourage exercise, avoiding the kale and parsley as y'all recommended, and daily shilintong and sherwood urinary supplements. She does seem to have a lot of sludge from what I am finding in the cage. But I am glad when I see it in the cage bc I know it's no longer in her bladder.

 

[weepweeps]

Wow. I’m so pleased she managed to pass it without surgery.

 

[Merab]

Good result there.
She’ll be so much more comfortable without that in her bladder.
Hope she recovers fully now

 

[velveteenery]

Thanks, y'all!

 

[Pigglemama]

Hello, dear guinea pig forum community,

My sweet Sassafras (Sassy) went into the vet this morning after I could tell she was in pain and was reluctant with her veggies (big red flag!). She was diagnosed with bloat and her Xrays also showed mineralization (I think is the right word?) in her bladder as well as a bladder stone. I will try to post a pic of the xray when they send it to me.

My first order of business is supporting her through bloat. I went through this with Rosemary back in July (and this community was so supportive and helpful! Rosemary by the way is doing fabulously!). Sassy is on metacam (increased dose- she's on it at .17 mL regularly for arthritis), metoclopramide, simethicone. I am also administering critical care once every 1-2 hours right now. She's pooping and peeing and nibbling on some hay and drinking here and there, and definitely seems in less pain.

I would love some support from folks on the bladder stones and considerations on this. Sassy is at least 4, we think (got her from a rescue so they're not sure). I don't know how risky a surgery would be to remove the stone. Does anyone have a sense of the prognosis of how often the procedure is successful for these little ones? Or other things that can help with bladder stones?

I would love any input. I took a look at the practical and sensitive guide to dying, which was very helpful. I don't know a lot about bladder stones, so maybe just needing some info to inform my mental calculus of if it's worth the risk for my Sassy girl. Attaching a picture of her

Thank you guinea pig sages

My beautiful boy Muffin was diagnosed with a bladder Stone age 2. We took him to a wonderful exotic vet in Edgbaston who operated on him and he bounced back so well. I always think that you have to give them a chance. In Muffins case he was unlucky because two weeks later he had 13 more bladder stones. Yes 13! Teeny tiny but still there all the same. We chose to have him operated on again by the same exotic. He was my baby and I so wanted him to survive ( I’ve attached a pic of his stones). He bounced back again and I’m convinced this is because the vet was super experienced and knew exactly how to treat guinea pigs. I go to him all the time now with my other two!

Muffin did live for a few months after but grew another stone which then lodged in his urethra. At this point I didn’t want to put him through it all again. Last September we chose to put him into his forever sleep. The vet explained that it was hereditary and that it was so rare that he grew so many in such a short time. The decision ultimately lies with you but I took the risk twice. I believe that although some go on the develop more some are lucky.
Whatever decision you come to will have been made out of love and I wish you and your gorgeous piggy all the best x

 

[velveteenery]

Thank you so much Pigglemama for sharing your story, what a sweet, beautiful boy. I know Muffin was well loved and I am sure he felt that all his days with you. I will definitely be asking for an updated xray on Friday for Sassy to see if she has more stones. Thank God, she actually passed the original stone yesterday! But I am worried especially with how much sludge she's passing, that she will be prone to developing more. I am just doing all I can on my end, and praying that her little system will hold up for a while. Cherishing my days with her. I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences and decision-making processes around all of this, as I think there is a decent chance this will be recurring for Sassy, and I want to thoughtfully weigh my options and take the best care of my sweet Sass that I can.

 

[SarahCR]

Good morning everyone! I am absolutely THRILLED to report that Sassy passed her stone yesterday! Look at this thing. Penny beside it for comparison. I am so relieved! She does have a bit of blood in her urine which I imagine is from the process of passing the stone. I have follow-up w/ the vet Friday and he's going to call me today to check in as well. She's still on a .3ml metacam dose. I'm so sad she had to go through this but so relieved it's out! Thank you guys so much for your support and recommendations. I am going to keep up the same care regimen we've been doing to hopefully keep another one from forming and help her keep moving the sludge through. We've been doing filtered water, extra floor time to encourage exercise, avoiding the kale and parsley as y'all recommended, and daily shilintong and sherwood urinary supplements. She does seem to have a lot of sludge from what I am finding in the cage. But I am glad when I see it in the cage bc I know it's no longer in her bladder.

So glad to hear she's doing better. Hope you don't mind but I think it's possible that our piggie Acorn may have a stone, or at least early small stones. Vet said there were deposits and has given pain relief and antibiotics. Reading this thread i may go back and ask for xray which she didn't do.
I'm interested in the filtered water. We live in a hard water area. Are you using a Brita filter or similar? I would definitely consider doing this, as the water is very hard, and maybe that isn't helping. Thank you.

 

[velveteenery]

So glad to hear she's doing better. Hope you don't mind but I think it's possible that our piggie Acorn may have a stone, or at least early small stones. Vet said there were deposits and has given pain relief and antibiotics. Reading this thread i may go back and ask for xray which she didn't do.
I'm interested in the filtered water. We live in a hard water area. Are you using a Brita filter or similar? I would definitely consider doing this, as the water is very hard, and maybe that isn't helping. Thank you.

Hi SarahCR! I'm so sorry to hear your piggy is feeling poorly. I hope Acorn feels better soon! I have a fridge water dispenser, so I just bought a new filter for it bc it's been way too long since we'd replaced it! And now fill their bottles from the fridge dispenser instead of with tap water. I think the Brita would accomplish the same purpose! I also give daily sherwood urinary supplement tabs (1) and shilintong (1/2 per day). The founder of the rescue I got the girls from recommended them to me when I let her know what was going on. She also had recommended to try renavive, but it took a while for it to come in, and by that time she'd passed the stone, so I'm just keeping her on the regimen that appeared to work for her. Hope that helps. I would recommend reading Wiebke's guides - they were really helpful for me.
Lydia

 

[SarahCR]

Hi SarahCR! I'm so sorry to hear your piggy is feeling poorly. I hope Acorn feels better soon! I have a fridge water dispenser, so I just bought a new filter for it bc it's been way too long since we'd replaced it! And now fill their bottles from the fridge dispenser instead of with tap water. I think the Brita would accomplish the same purpose! I also give daily sherwood urinary supplement tabs (1) and shilintong (1/2 per day). The founder of the rescue I got the girls from recommended them to me when I let her know what was going on. She also had recommended to try renavive, but it took a while for it to come in, and by that time she'd passed the stone, so I'm just keeping her on the regimen that appeared to work for her. Hope that helps. I would recommend reading Wiebke's guides - they were really helpful for me.
Lydia

Thank you so much. I've bought some Sherwood Urinary support tablets. They are so hard! Can guineas manage to chew them and swallow without choking?

 

[velveteenery]

Thank you so much. I've bought some Sherwood Urinary support tablets. They are so hard! Can guineas manage to chew them and swallow without choking?

So I grind them up and then sprinkle over veggies bc my girls won't eat them plain. I have a little ceramic bowl and a small ceramic measuring cup that I use to break it into pieces and then use the bottom of a plastic syringe to break down further. I am sure there are easier ways of doing it but that's what I have on hand. I also tried putting in a ziploc to crush which worked okay, too. Best of luck to your sweet piggie sending love to you and Acorn.

 

[Baileysmypig]

Good morning everyone! I am absolutely THRILLED to report that Sassy passed her stone yesterday! Look at this thing. Penny beside it for comparison. I am so relieved! She does have a bit of blood in her urine which I imagine is from the process of passing the stone. I have follow-up w/ the vet Friday and he's going to call me today to check in as well. She's still on a .3ml metacam dose. I'm so sad she had to go through this but so relieved it's out! Thank you guys so much for your support and recommendations. I am going to keep up the same care regimen we've been doing to hopefully keep another one from forming and help her keep moving the sludge through. We've been doing filtered water, extra floor time to encourage exercise, avoiding the kale and parsley as y'all recommended, and daily shilintong and sherwood urinary supplements. She does seem to have a lot of sludge from what I am finding in the cage. But I am glad when I see it in the cage bc I know it's no longer in her bladder.

Can you tell me what worked to help pass the stone? MY sweet Bailey is 4 years old and is on pain medicine. Depending on how this goes, she might need surgery. I feel so lost

 

[Merab]

Just want to assure you of my support

 

[Baileysmypig]

Just want to assure you of my support

Thank you so much