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Bladder Stones - Advice Needed

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Aryank84

Aryank84

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi,

I have 3 lady pigs and for the last few months I've noticed some bloody urine in the cage. There are normally quite a few patches once every couple of weeks. Because it happens so irregularly I've had real trouble working out which pig it is. Anyway this weekend I managed to work out that it is Pickle who is about 5 and a half. I've had her in a run on her own to observe her and a few times she seemed to be in pain when weeing, but not all the time and is eating and drinking as normal. I weighed her and she's lost around 150g since the end of December. I took her to the vet today, but just before I left I looked at her lady bits and noticed a stone right at the entrance, which I managed to squeeze out. I took her to the vet and showed him the stone and he felt her belly and said he could feel more stones. He didn't do an x-ray but did seem positive she had stones. I'm just really unsure about what to do now. He said he's done a few surgeries for stones and had good success but she would be the oldest one he'd operated on. For now I have Metacam and Septrin and am going to keep an eye on her. I just wondered if anyone had any advice or been through anything similar. I don't want her to be in pain, but I'm not sure whether she'd make it through a surgery. She has been operated on before about 3 years ago where a tumour was removed and she recovered well from that, but obviously she's a lot older now. Is it possible to pass them? The one I found today has obviously worked it's way out, so could the rest? There's just such a lot of information on the subject I don't really know where to start :-/
I think I've attached a picture of the stone - if I've done it properly.IMG_20160307_155740.webp

Thanks in advance,
Aryan x
 
Aryank84 said:
Hi,

I have 3 lady pigs and for the last few months I've noticed some bloody urine in the cage. There are normally quite a few patches once every couple of weeks. Because it happens so irregularly I've had real trouble working out which pig it is. Anyway this weekend I managed to work out that it is Pickle who is about 5 and a half. I've had her in a run on her own to observe her and a few times she seemed to be in pain when weeing, but not all the time and is eating and drinking as normal. I weighed her and she's lost around 150g since the end of December. I took her to the vet today, but just before I left I looked at her lady bits and noticed a stone right at the entrance, which I managed to squeeze out. I took her to the vet and showed him the stone and he felt her belly and said he could feel more stones. He didn't do an x-ray but did seem positive she had stones. I'm just really unsure about what to do now. He said he's done a few surgeries for stones and had good success but she would be the oldest one he'd operated on. For now I have Metacam and Septrin and am going to keep an eye on her. I just wondered if anyone had any advice or been through anything similar. I don't want her to be in pain, but I'm not sure whether she'd make it through a surgery. She has been operated on before about 3 years ago where a tumour was removed and she recovered well from that, but obviously she's a lot older now. Is it possible to pass them? The one I found today has obviously worked it's way out, so could the rest? There's just such a lot of information on the subject I don't really know where to start :-/
I think I've attached a picture of the stone - if I've done it properly.View attachment 43687

Thanks in advance,
Aryan x
Click to expand...

It is always a worry with older piggies. Perhaps you might want to look for a vet who is very experienced with operating on guinea pigs, even if it further to travel, as that really ups the success rate. My Ceri had a successful bladder stone operation at 5 years old despite deteriorating quickly and being only 540g when operated after the weekend - that was about as borderline as you can get! She was back to 700g within a couple of weeks. So it can be done, but preferably with an experienced and confident vet.

If you could get as far a Molly Varga, who has recently moved up to Lancashire, it would be worth a try. Sadly, stones don't go away on their own. :(

Low Calcium Diet For Bladder Piggies
I would also recommend starting with vegetarian glucosamine or glucosamine based cat food supplements cystease or cystophan to help protect the irritated bladder walls.
 
Thanks so much for your reply. I will look into her diet and will get some Cystease ordered. I'm going to start her on the medication from the vet tonight. Because she doesn't seem too much different to normal, I'm not really sure what I'm looking out for. I'll just have to keep an eye on her and hope she doesn't deteriorate.
 
Aryank84 said:
Thanks so much for your reply. I will look into her diet and will get some Cystease ordered. I'm going to start her on the medication from the vet tonight. Because she doesn't seem too much different to normal, I'm not really sure what I'm looking out for. I'll just have to keep an eye on her and hope she doesn't deteriorate.
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Ceri was found to have a massive "silent" 11mm bladder stone that hadn't been causing any symptoms until then; I am sure that your girl's stones are smaller! ;)
 
Hello there,

Some stones are potentially passable in female piggies but it really does depend on the size and where they are sitting (in he bladder of further up in the ureters). I would potentially consider surgery. A skilled vet can do a stone removal surgery relatively quickly. As for age, I've just had my 5 and a half year old sow spayed and her thyroid removed at the end of last week. She's recovering all good and this is far more major surgery then a cystotomy (bladder surgery). I would personally go for it if your vet thinks this is the best course of action and you are confident your vet is happy to do Guinea pig surgery.

x
 
Ahh this does make me feel more confident knowing your older piggies have had successful ops. I'm going away for a week (the pigs are coming too) so I'll use the meds for that week and then get her to my local vet. They did her last op so I would be comfortable with them doing it x
 
I've had 2 sows pass stones without too much difficulty. You could ask for an utrasound to check if there are any more stones for sure & their size if the vet thinks they will show up on ultrasound as they can do that conscious :)
 
Hi, just thought I would put an update on here. So Pickle has been on her medicine for about a week and a half and has put some weight on thankfully. She's still her normal self, eating and drinking like normal. But she is still passing blood. I'm really not sure what to do. I went to the vet to ask about surgery and they said it would be around £500 for x-ray, surgery, etc. I have always said if you're going to get a pet then you have to do everything you can to look after it, but I literally can not afford this. One of my other of pigs had an infection last summer which cost me over £300 so I just don't have the funds for this surgery and I feel so guilty and feel like I have to explain myself so people don't think I'm an awful person.
Should I keep her on the medicine for now and see if she passes the stones? How do I know if she's in pain? Because she seems fine then I'm more inclined to carry on with the medicine and see how things go but if she's in pain I'd want to do something about it. I was watching her this morning and her droppings seem to be very small and more sticky than normal at the minute and also her hair was standing on end quite a lot of the time, which normally only happens when she's eating so I don't know if this is a sign of pain or illness. Any more advice would be very much appreciated x
 
If you can't afford the £500 all in one go, ask your vet about a payment plan. Perhaps you could pay it off maybe £25 a month, or something like that. A lot of vets are happy to do this.
 
7squeakers. said:
If you can't afford the £500 all in one go, ask your vet about a payment plan. Perhaps you could pay it off maybe £25 a month, or something like that. A lot of vets are happy to do this.
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They have a sign in reception saying that they don't do payment plans. But I really trust them to do the surgery as they are specialists in exotics and they've looked after them really well twice already. If I could find somewhere that I was happy to take her that did payment plans then I would, but I'm not sure where else to go :-(
 
Oh dear! Sorry about that! It seems rather mean and unfair of them. I really hope you manage to find a good vet to help your little girl. Best of luck. :tu::tu::tu::tu::tu:
 
It's worth explaining to the vet your situation although they say they will not consider payment plan, they may make an exception if you have been a client for some time.

I don't know if it's your location but 500 seems like a lot of money and to be quite honest before going ahead with an operation I'd be sure to get an Xray or ultrasound.

Are you anywhere near Molly Vaughan she is highly recommended, it might even just be worth enquiring how much a bladder operation would be?
 
That sounds very expensive to me I have to say.

Last year I paid just over £200 for X-rays and a bladder flush with antibiotics. This year my oldish sow Violet (5 years) had X-rays and a spay and it was only £250. Our practice is very near J18 of the M6.

Depending where you are in Manchester you could consider going to see Molly Varga. She could advise further.

I've just lost my beloved Mr Ted to a silent stone that became stuck in his urethra. If we'd known about it earlier we could have had it operated on. As it was my poor chap suddenly deteriorated and was in tremendous pain. Surgery at that point wasn't an option.
 
Molly Varga clinics are not cheap and she is not doing the operations herself anymore, but you may want to look around for a cheaper, but decent general vet clinic in your wider area. £500 is very expensive!
Perhaps you can find some more addresses you can get to via our vet locator? Guinea Pig Vet Locator
 
Thanks for your replies everyone. I agree £500 seems very expensive so I'll search around for an alternative. I go to Ashleigh Vet in Whalley Range. They said the 500 would be for the consultation, x-ray and surgery x
 
VickiA said:
That sounds very expensive to me I have to say.

Last year I paid just over £200 for X-rays and a bladder flush with antibiotics. This year my oldish sow Violet (5 years) had X-rays and a spay and it was only £250. Our practice is very near J18 of the M6.

Depending where you are in Manchester you could consider going to see Molly Varga. She could advise further.

I've just lost my beloved Mr Ted to a silent stone that became stuck in his urethra. If we'd known about it earlier we could have had it operated on. As it was my poor chap suddenly deteriorated and was in tremendous pain. Surgery at that point wasn't an option.
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Sorry to hear about Mr Ted, the last think I want is for that to happen. The thought of her being in pain makes me feel sick. What's your practice called? Maybe I could get in touch with them x
 
I
Aryank84 said:
Thanks for your replies everyone. I agree £500 seems very expensive so I'll search around for an alternative. I go to Ashleigh Vet in Whalley Range. They said the 500 would be for the consultation, x-ray and surgery x
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I know that Ashleigh vets are a well known recommended practice and many members on the forum use them. I was always under the impression the offered a payment plan.

£500 does seem a lot :(
 
Aryank84 said:
Sorry to hear about Mr Ted, the last think I want is for that to happen. The thought of her being in pain makes me feel sick. What's your practice called? Maybe I could get in touch with them x
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Mine is CheshirePet in Holmes Chapel. Molly Varga used to work there but has left. We have Emily and Sara who are exotics and cavy savvy and who I trust implicitly.
 
Hi
I have a boar who has had kindey and bladder stones who has been operated on twice for this (the second time because there was a tiny stone on the top of his penis bone that couldnt be seen on x-ray and could only be seen on a CT scan.
First off you could start syringe feeding 2mls of fizzy water (no more than this though) 3 times a day - this might help shift any stones that could be in the ureter or kidney I am doing this with Bumble at the moment- he had a small kidney stone last year and the fizzy water did do the trick though its not guaranteed.I have looked through the bill for his last operation and he was charged £25.88 x- ray first plate and £76.51 subsequent plates - @Abi_nurse might be able to tell you more about number of x-rays they take as sometimes Bumble only has one done at £25.88 - if they have to put a catheter in £41.69 (not always though ) - anaesthetic £49.14 emiprid injection £5 surgical time per minute £5 - most of Bumbles operations cost around the £250 - £300 mark - its worth giving some vets a ring round and getting them to give you quote with a full breakdown so you know where you stand - as Bumble has had bladder surgery lasting nearly an hour and a £100 out of hours admission charge and that still came in at under £500 - good luck xx
 
I agree, a full breakdown estimate might be good. It really can depend on area of the country and vet on prices. Some rough guides to prices in the London area, I don't remember them exactly (but generally around these figures):
X-ray first plate : £90
X-ray subsequent plates : £40
Ultrasound bladder: £80
Anaesthetic £50-100 (dependant on time)
Surgical time for bladder surgery (for the vet to do the surgery): £150-200ish
Consumables (gloves, sutures, sterilising kit): £30
Drugs: £30-50 (dependant on what etc)
A days hospitalisation (nursing care if staying in): £50

So for London prices £500 is probably about it, but not sure about your area of the UK? And as for X-rays you usually need to take two views, one from the side and one with them laying on their stomach (or back if the vet prefers) just to ensure you see all stones and even then they can sometimes try to hide.

Hope this helps.

x
 
Thank you both for your replies. I've not heard of the fizzy water thing but I'll start trying that today and see if it helps. I'm taking her to Ashleigh next week for a consultation and was told they'll give me a breakdown then of what the costs might be and it did sound as though it may be possible to do some sort of payment plan as I've been there before so fingers crossed x
 
Fingers crossed for you next week - once the op has been done and piggy is on the mend it might be worth getting your vet to make up some Moduretic for your piggy.My vet has put Bumble on this - it's purely preventative for bladder stones - we don't know if it works,but it is used in humans to help prevent stones forming,makes them wee out excess calcium (you can see white spots where Bumble does his wees - so looks like it is helping - even if it doesn't work it wont do any harm ) and only cost me £10 and lasts for about 8 weeks in the fridge - my vet is a piggy specialist and if your vet rings or emails her she will give her the instructions on how to make it up - her name is Rachel Mowbray at Vale Vets in Dursley - 01453542092.
 
TAN said:
Fingers crossed for you next week - once the op has been done and piggy is on the mend it might be worth getting your vet to make up some Moduretic for your piggy.My vet has put Bumble on this - it's purely preventative for bladder stones - we don't know if it works,but it is used in humans to help prevent stones forming,makes them wee out excess calcium (you can see white spots where Bumble does his wees - so looks like it is helping - even if it doesn't work it wont do any harm ) and only cost me £10 and lasts for about 8 weeks in the fridge - my vet is a piggy specialist and if your vet rings or emails her she will give her the instructions on how to make it up - her name is Rachel Mowbray at Vale Vets in Dursley - 01453542092.
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Thank you so much for this. I'll mention it when I go next week :-)
 
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Hi
Wondering if you have been to the vets yet? Took Bumble to my vet today - he was x-rayed last Monday and started back on the fizzy water then (2mls 3x a day) as my vet hoped that the gas would push the stones in his ureter out into the bladder - he was x-rayed again today and 3 of the 4 stones have now come out of the ureter and are sitting in the bladder - so only 1 small stone left in the ureter - so I am to continue with the fizzy water and she will re xray next week - hopefully the fizzy water will push out the other stone and might even help him flush out the stones in the bladder as she says the urethra is wider than the ureter that the stones have come out of - if not a minor surgical proceedure to get them out of the bladder - she also tested his urine and there was no calcium in his urine so the moduretic that he is on to help prevent the stones forming in the first place seems to be doing its job - hope this might help you.
 
TAN said:
Hi
Wondering if you have been to the vets yet? Took Bumble to my vet today - he was x-rayed last Monday and started back on the fizzy water then (2mls 3x a day) as my vet hoped that the gas would push the stones in his ureter out into the bladder - he was x-rayed again today and 3 of the 4 stones have now come out of the ureter and are sitting in the bladder - so only 1 small stone left in the ureter - so I am to continue with the fizzy water and she will re xray next week - hopefully the fizzy water will push out the other stone and might even help him flush out the stones in the bladder as she says the urethra is wider than the ureter that the stones have come out of - if not a minor surgical proceedure to get them out of the bladder - she also tested his urine and there was no calcium in his urine so the moduretic that he is on to help prevent the stones forming in the first place seems to be doing its job - hope this might help you.
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Ahh, so happy to hear that the fizzy water has helped with Tan - sorry for the late reply, I've only just seen your message. I might start Pickle back on it once she's finished her medicine. She's very fed up at the minute when it comes to medicine time. I took her to the vet and they x-rayed her and found 2 stones. He said there was a lot of sludge so they flushed her bladder and we're hoping that the stones will just pass as he said they seem small enough.
The only thing I'm a bit worried about it that he said to cut out the pellets and only feed them lettuce and hay. So I've started this for all 3 of them as that's what he recommended, but they've gone from getting a lovely mix of veggies to it being cut down so much that they're now constantly begging for food. I can't give them too much lettuce because it makes their droppings mushy so their portion sizes have dropped significantly. I know I should listen to the vet, but do you think it would be ok to give them a little bit more of a variety veg-wise. I feel so sorry for them!
 
They are definitely going to need more than lettuce - you need to feed some red green or yellow pepper everyday to give them the Vit C they need for a start ( that is usually fortified within the nuggets )- they can have cucumber - some carrot - some apple - some pear - the occasional grape or strawberry - occasional corn on the cob - my vet also recommends a low calcium pellet food which she feeds her guineas and I feed Bumble - its called Vetcare multimodal guinea pig food - from vet uk (takes a while to come so i order 2 or 3 boxes at a time) - the cucumber is also good if your piggy doesnt drink much as it's fluid - don't forget your vet can phone mine and ask for the instructions of how to make up the moduretic which will hopefully stop any more stones forming (only cost me £10 for 2 months supply ) - if your vet Pooh Pooh's the idea you can just insist you would like to try it (my old vet laughed at the fizzy water trick - but it's worked twice now ) no more than 2 mls fizzy water 3 x a day if you do the fizzy water - there is a low calcium foods thread on here that will give you a list of the veggies to feed a bladder pig - and yes - too much lettuce is not good.
 
Ye
TAN said:
They are definitely going to need more than lettuce - you need to feed some red green or yellow pepper everyday to give them the Vit C they need for a start ( that is usually fortified within the nuggets )- they can have cucumber - some carrot - some apple - some pear - the occasional grape or strawberry - occasional corn on the cob - my vet also recommends a low calcium pellet food which she feeds her guineas and I feed Bumble - its called Vetcare multimodal guinea pig food - from vet uk (takes a while to come so i order 2 or 3 boxes at a time) - the cucumber is also good if your piggy doesnt drink much as it's fluid - don't forget your vet can phone mine and ask for the instructions of how to make up the moduretic which will hopefully stop any more stones forming (only cost me £10 for 2 months supply ) - if your vet Pooh Pooh's the idea you can just insist you would like to try it (my old vet laughed at the fizzy water trick - but it's worked twice now ) no more than 2 mls fizzy water 3 x a day if you do the fizzy water - there is a low calcium foods thread on here that will give you a list of the veggies to feed a bladder pig - and yes - too much lettuce is not good.
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Yeah, I gave in and went back to giving them more veg because I just felt so bad for them. And I've got some them some fancy hay which they are loving (even though it really affects my asthma). I'll have a look at the pellets. I was giving them burgess but I saw a few ingredients had calcium in the name, so stopped giving it to them. She's bleeding again today so I'm taking her to the vet tomorrow and will ask about the moduretic.
Do they have to put the pig to sleep to x-ray them? I think she'll probably need another one but I don't want her to keep getting put to sleep, it worries me x
 
Some vets will do a conscious xray but it depends what view they need as some are easier with just a small whiff of gas (not a full GA).
 
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