Bladder Stones

[TheWillowPigs]

Hey guys,

I wasn't really sure which section of the forum to put this in as it probably comes under several sections but I really need some advice.

I am a pigmom to 5 amazing guinea pigs who I love with all my heart. They have lived here at uni with me due to the genorosity of our landlord allowing guinea pigs in our accomodation. Another of my housemates has 4 guinea pigs, yet due to her moving out next year into accomodation that cannot take guinea pigs - I have offered to take her 4 on.

She has three girls and a neuteured boar. One of the girls is very prone to bladderstones, and is currently on medication after I noticed blood in her pee and informed her owner she should take her to the vet.

As the pigs currently aren't mine, I am a bit limited in what I can do right now, but I want to prepare for the future with these pigs. I'm hoping to introduce them to my 5 (all girls) to form a herd of 9.

Are there any pellets suitable for pigs prone to bladderstones? Any that don't contain calcium at all? At first I planned to feed her seperately to the others, but then it occured to me to see whether there was any pellets that I could safely feed all 9 of them.

Also, is there anything else I can to reduce the risk of her getting another bladderstone in the future? I'm not sure when I will get ownership of my housemate's 4, but I want to be prepared for when I do.

The thought of letting someone else have them was just too hard to bear. It'll cause some difficulties with moving later this year but my pigs are my world and I just couldn't let them go!

Any advice would be very gratefully recieved!

 

[Siikibam]

I’ll tag @Piggies&buns @PigglePuggle @furryfriends (TEAS) as I’m not sure on the pellets.

Out of curiosity, will your friend’s four piggies be permanently living with you? Because if they’re not then it’s best to keep them as they are. Also, 9 piggies would need...a 2 x 12 ft cage. Do you have space for that?

 

[TheWillowPigs]

@Siikibam Yes, they would be permenantly living with me - otherwise I would of course keep them apart. I also do have the space to provide them with the cage size they require.

We have a seperate room that my guinea pigs live in so space in that room is no real issue. I would extend the cage if the introduction between my 5 and the new 4 went well.

 

[TheWillowPigs]

My 5 are currently in a 2 x 8 C&C cage so I'd probably turn it into a 3 x 8 to get the space requirements for 9

 

[Piggies&buns]

They can take in a lot of calcium through pellets and unfiltered drinking water. Changing their pellets and ensuring they are kept strictly limited to one tablespoon per day per pig can help. Changing them to grain free pellets would be something to look to change to. I use science selective grain free pellets. Also, if you live in a hard water area, then filtering their drinking water (using a Brita filter jug or equivalent) can reduce the amount of calcium they take in.

This link will also be of use with vegetables for long term health but also there is a section for bladder piggies

Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

 

[TheWillowPigs]

We do live in a hard water area. I change the filter in my jug regularly... but I'm not sure how often my housemate changes the filter in their jug.

Currently her pigs are on a veg based diet due to the rex's bladderstones, but I'm worried that this could cause its own problems as one of their piggies is prone to bloat.

I want to try and find a happy balance, and am happy to look into other pellet brands - I currently feed mine burgess but know these would not be suitable for a pig who is sensitive to calcium content.

Once the pigs become officially mine, as it were, I would be able to ensure that their drinking water was always filtered with a filter changed regularly.

 

[TheWillowPigs]

I'm hoping I can find the perfect diet suitable for a guinea pig prone to bladderstones, one prone to bloat and the 7 pigs who currently have more open diets!

 

[Piggies&buns]

Was it a vet who prescribed a veg based diet?
We have had a very useful thread on here recently regarding wet diets to flush the system but they still need to be eating a lot of hay
There really won’t be the perfect diet, but it will be about balancing and managing as best you can.
The link I’ve added above should help you

 

[TheWillowPigs]

It wasn't, no. I believe they made the decision to change to the diet on their own.

I also don't think they use a cavvy savvy vet, but use the most local one. My vet who is a bit more of a drive away is a cavvy savvy one.

I looked at the link, thank you so much. It looks like grain-free pellets are the way to go so I shall look into those!

 

[Piggies&buns]

It wasn't, no. I believe they made the decision to change to the diet on their own.

I also don't think they use a cavvy savvy vet, but use the most local one. My vet who is a bit more of a drive away is a cavvy savvy one.

I looked at the link, thank you so much. It looks like grain-free pellets are the way to go so I shall look into those!

Oh dear. It’s very risky to make such drastic changes to a diet without veterinary advice. I appreciate there isn’t a whole lot you can do at present. Without a good amount of hay then there could be other health issues occur such as the risk of teeth not wearing down adequately and overgrowing. Even in a bladder pig, large amounts of hay are still needed.

 

[Wiebke]

Hey guys,

I wasn't really sure which section of the forum to put this in as it probably comes under several sections but I really need some advice.

I am a pigmom to 5 amazing guinea pigs who I love with all my heart. They have lived here at uni with me due to the genorosity of our landlord allowing guinea pigs in our accomodation. Another of my housemates has 4 guinea pigs, yet due to her moving out next year into accomodation that cannot take guinea pigs - I have offered to take her 4 on.

She has three girls and a neuteured boar. One of the girls is very prone to bladderstones, and is currently on medication after I noticed blood in her pee and informed her owner she should take her to the vet.

As the pigs currently aren't mine, I am a bit limited in what I can do right now, but I want to prepare for the future with these pigs. I'm hoping to introduce them to my 5 (all girls) to form a herd of 9.

Are there any pellets suitable for pigs prone to bladderstones? Any that don't contain calcium at all? At first I planned to feed her seperately to the others, but then it occured to me to see whether there was any pellets that I could safely feed all 9 of them.

Also, is there anything else I can to reduce the risk of her getting another bladderstone in the future? I'm not sure when I will get ownership of my housemate's 4, but I want to be prepared for when I do.

The thought of letting someone else have them was just too hard to bear. It'll cause some difficulties with moving later this year but my pigs are my world and I just couldn't let them go!

Any advice would be very gratefully recieved!

Hi and welcome

Please have a read through our diet guide; it looks at all aspects of a diet, from the water (more calcium can come by water than any other food source) to pellets (including a link to a UK pellet chart with low calcium grain-free pellets) to veg, treats and diet recommendations based on our general diet but with special tweaks. This chapter includes dietary tips for guinea pigs with ongoing urinary tract problems (ps: bladder stone piggies can eat lettuce; it is not a potential trigger food for them).
Please don't go completely no calcium at all; that is very damaging for the long term health, too!
Here is the diet link: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

In many cases, bladder stones have a genetic component as well as natural inclination to not drinking much. You cannot force a guinea pig to drink more and you shouldn't force water into it but you can tweak your veg selection to include as much leafy greens plus cucumber and if possible some dog pee free fresh grass to get more fluid in in order to encourage flushing the bladder better. The more hay your piggies eat, the better - hay is what piggies have evolved on and are healthiest and longer lived on generally. Even bladder piggies still need their hay to be over 80% of the daily food intake but you will likely to step in only once they have come into your care.
Too much veg can cause dysbiosis (when bad bacteria dominate the fermentation process in the gut) resulting in bloat or diarrhoea, not to mention potential dental issues in the long term as guinea pig teeth molar growth is fine tuned against the very abrasive silica in the grass and hay (which are both rich in vitamin C; hence why there has never been the need to make their own).

You are welcome to ask as many questions as you need to.

 

[TheWillowPigs]

Thank you so much. I'll definitely have a look at the special diet stuff and tweak the diets to try and be as beneficial as possible.

If I go grain-free, how do I ensure they still get the calcium they do need?

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much. I'll definitely have a look at the special diet stuff and tweak the diets to try and be as beneficial as possible.

If I go grain-free, how do I ensure they still get the calcium they do need?

Calcium is in the hay. Greens are a relative of kale, just a milder version. Fresh herbs are also fairly high in calcium, but you are not feeding large amounts; coriander again are the mildest version.
What we can say is that our diet recommendations do work in practice for UK owners in living in a mostly hard water country; and have done so for long term owners who haven't got bladder stone problems in their piggies and haven't had for many years. Our long term forum members have also had very little bladder stone problems, if any, in years. Diet is however not a quick fix as it takes time to work through the system; but it is the best thing you can do for the long term.
If you wish, leave out the french bean (which is more in the way of a daily treat as most piggies love them) and replace it with some more leafy greens.

 

[TheWillowPigs]

Calcium is in the hay. Greens are a relative of kale, just a milder version. Fresh herbs are also fairly high in calcium, but you are not feeding large amounts; coriander again are the mildest version.
What we can say is that our diet recommendations do work in practice for UK owners in living in a mostly hard water country; and have done so for long term owners who haven't got bladder stone problems in their piggies and haven't had for many years. Our long term forum members have also had very little bladder stone problems, if any, in years. Diet is however not a quick fix as it takes time to work through the system; but it is the best thing you can do for the long term.
If you wish, leave out the french bean (which is more in the way of a daily treat as most piggies love them) and replace it with some more leafy greens.

Would those veg recommendations be alright for the pig prone to bloat as well?

 

[Wiebke]

Would those veg recommendations be alright for the pig prone to bloat as well?

Yes because the veg is only amking about 10% of the daily food intake (1 tablespoon of pellets per piggy per day is the last 5%), but you generally take a bloating piggy off any fresh food for a few days to allow the gut to rebalance.
The same tips as for mild tummy upsets go for piggies with mild bloating caused by a too veg rich diet.
Here is our guide for piggies with digestive problems: Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

 

[TheWillowPigs]

Thank you so much for your patience and help, I know some of these questions may just seem like common sense but I really want to do well by all my piggies.

 

[TheWillowPigs]

I think I'll sit down and read through all of these forum links you've passed me, and gather a list of what to feed and what not to feed them

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much for your patience and help, I know some of these questions may just seem like common sense but I really want to do well by all my piggies.

We are here to help you with all the details. We'd rather you asked too many questions than to few because you feel embarrassed. We are working hard to keep this forum a friendly place in which you feel welcome to ask all the little questions instead of bumbling on blindly and finding them the hard way like I have had to do, for instance, as the information was simply not around then.

We also have a chat section with a friendly community where you are welcome to talk about your piggies and share pictures - ideal for all the members whose family and friends are getting rather bored about their interest in and their love for their piggies!

 

[TheWillowPigs]

I think when I get home I'll have to do a "meet the piggies" post so you can learn all about my furbabies!

As for a set up for 9, this is my current one for 5 so I think it shouldn't be too hard to extend to hold the other 4!

The 4 are currently on fleece atm, but have formerly been kept on shavings so should changing them back over be a problem?

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I run a sanctuary for guinea pigs with ongoing dental issues and have never had any bladder issues with the guinea pigs in my care. I have even taken in guinea pigs, who have been having bladder issues for years, who have no longer had problems, since living at TEAS. I have made a thread showing the sort of things that I feed our guinea pigs and in what amounts. Our vet feels that most people are feeding too dry a diet, which isn't flushing through the urinary system and although hay needs to be the biggest part of the diet, it is too dry, when not enough veg is being fed. Here is the link to how we feed the guinea pigs at TEAS!


Feeding the guinea pigs at TEAS

 

[Wiebke]

I think I'll sit down and read through all of these forum links you've passed me, and gather a list of what to feed and what not to feed them

Yes, please take the time to read first and then come back with any questions that have not been answered or that have newly come up.

We do have a very useful New Owners' guide collection, which we try to keep updated regularly (which the online guide format allows us to do, unlike a book with quickly becomes obsolete). The collection specifically addresses all the most often asked questions and concerns that are coming up. It covers many topics in a practical and precise way where other books tend to gloss over.
You may want to bookmark it and use it as a handy resource: Getting Started - New Owners' Most Helpful Guides

You can access our full information collection on an even wider range of topics via the guides shortcut on the top bar.

 

[TheWillowPigs]

Yes, please take the time to read first and then come back with any questions that have not been answered or that have newly come up.

We do have a very useful New Owners' guide collection, which we try to keep updated regularly (which the online guide format allows us to do, unlike a book with quickly becomes obsolete). The collection specifically addresses all the most often asked questions and concerns that are coming up. It covers many topics in a practical and precise way where other books tend to gloss over.
You may want to bookmark it and use it as a handy resource: Getting Started - New Owners' Most Helpful Guides

You can access our full information collection on an even wider range of topics via the guides shortcut on the top bar.

I've actually owned guinea pigs for 10 years now - I've just been fortunate enough to not have bladderstone or bloat problems! I'll definitely give it a read, though, as refreshing information never hurts!

Thank you

 

[TheWillowPigs]

I run a sanctuary for guinea pigs with ongoing dental issues and have never had any bladder issues with the guinea pigs in my care. I have even taken in guinea pigs, who have been having bladder issues for years, who have no longer had problems, since living at TEAS. I have made a thread showing the sort of things that I feed our guinea pigs and in what amounts. Our vet feels that most people are feeding too dry a diet, which isn't flushing through the urinary system and although hay needs to be the biggest part of the diet, it is too dry, when not enough veg is being fed. Here is the link to how we feed the guinea pigs at TEAS!


Feeding the guinea pigs at TEAS

Thank you so much!

 

[Wiebke]

I've actually owned guinea pigs for 10 years now - I've just been fortunate enough to not have bladderstone or bloat problems! I'll definitely give it a read, though, as refreshing information never hurts!

Thank you

You may find some interesting things in there...

None of us is ever stopping to learn and to adapt. The last 10 years have brought so many changes; and this is ongoing.