Bonding Boar With Girls

[Katiedid]

Hi,

I have a neutered boar, his pal died last month. He and Dozy had a tempestuous relationship as he is top pig and likes to show it. However after being in a split cage they eventually just decided ok this is it, we are fine and went in together.

Anyway Dozy died and I started to look for a pal for my little bear as he was sad. I decided due to top pig issues to try a female. In the end I came to the decision 2 young females would be better, I said yes to them and they are being quarantined. However, I was called by the owner of a lone 5-6 year old female who was looking to be rehomed. I agreed that if they could not find a home for her I would take her on (not a great situation but she needed rescued). She arrived last weekend. She had some issues (mites and urine scald on feet and lumps). We are sorting these as she is quarantined here.

Thinking ahead, we have a huge C&C cage as Dozy and Jet needed the space, we would ideally like to have all 4 together but I know this may not happen, I'm not deluding myself, but I want to try.

I am now trying to prepare my head for how I do this - while I still have a couple of weeks for quarantine.

In the cage we have fleece bedding (made with absorbent layer) we also have a couple of sets of vet bed. I have a large cage ready for introductions in the kitchen - the garden run is metal so can be washed and brought in. But the main cage itself is my issue.

The bedding was expensive, I don't want to get rid of it but clearly even if I wash it, it will stink of Jet. If I soak a set of bedding in bio powder, then wash with washing soda, then rinse a few times then wash with vinegar will that get rid of jets smell sufficiently (I used to do this to strip my daughters nappies so I am quite adept at getting all the washing powder out)? I'm happy to switch to sawdust for a while if that would be better?

I'll replace all toys at first. Can I wash the beds the same way as bedding or shall I get new beds.

I'm tempted to split the cage again and put Jet and the older girl side by side for a while and swap toys etc, is this a good idea?

Due to her issues she stinks of manky cage, and could do with a bath, sir stinky pants is also due a bath. I don't want to do a bonding bath at all, if I bath each of them this weekend will they have enough stink back to try them together by next weekend?

I was going to settle the older 2 together first (if they settle together) then introduce the babies a few weeks later. Does this sound sensible or do I put her beside him for a while and then shove them all together in the neutral area to sort it out and just do one introduction.

I know the situation isn't ideal, I took the old girlie on knowing that as a fall back I have a large cage she can be where she can hear and smell the others. I took her on because she needed to be cared for.

Finally for washing the cage out, is it a vinegar and water mix or pure vinegar?

Sorry so many questions....

 

[Wiebke]

Hi,

I have a neutered boar, his pal died last month. He and Dozy had a tempestuous relationship as he is top pig and likes to show it. However after being in a split cage they eventually just decided ok this is it, we are fine and went in together.

Anyway Dozy died and I started to look for a pal for my little bear as he was sad. I decided due to top pig issues to try a female. In the end I came to the decision 2 young females would be better, I said yes to them and they are being quarantined. However, I was called by the owner of a lone 5-6 year old female who was looking to be rehomed. I agreed that if they could not find a home for her I would take her on (not a great situation but she needed rescued). She arrived last weekend. She had some issues (mites and urine scald on feet and lumps). We are sorting these as she is quarantined here.

Thinking ahead, we have a huge C&C cage as Dozy and Jet needed the space, we would ideally like to have all 4 together but I know this may not happen, I'm not deluding myself, but I want to try.

I am now trying to prepare my head for how I do this - while I still have a couple of weeks for quarantine.

In the cage we have fleece bedding (made with absorbent layer) we also have a couple of sets of vet bed. I have a large cage ready for introductions in the kitchen - the garden run is metal so can be washed and brought in. But the main cage itself is my issue.

The bedding was expensive, I don't want to get rid of it but clearly even if I wash it, it will stink of Jet. If I soak a set of bedding in bio powder, then wash with washing soda, then rinse a few times then wash with vinegar will that get rid of jets smell sufficiently (I used to do this to strip my daughters nappies so I am quite adept at getting all the washing powder out)? I'm happy to switch to sawdust for a while if that would be better?

I'll replace all toys at first. Can I wash the beds the same way as bedding or shall I get new beds.

I'm tempted to split the cage again and put Jet and the older girl side by side for a while and swap toys etc, is this a good idea?

Due to her issues she stinks of manky cage, and could do with a bath, sir stinky pants is also due a bath. I don't want to do a bonding bath at all, if I bath each of them this weekend will they have enough stink back to try them together by next weekend?

I was going to settle the older 2 together first (if they settle together) then introduce the babies a few weeks later. Does this sound sensible or do I put her beside him for a while and then shove them all together in the neutral area to sort it out and just do one introduction.

I know the situation isn't ideal, I took the old girlie on knowing that as a fall back I have a large cage she can be where she can hear and smell the others. I took her on because she needed to be cared for.

Finally for washing the cage out, is it a vinegar and water mix or pure vinegar?

Sorry so many questions....

Hi!

Please take the time to read our bonding guide: Illustrated Bonding / Dominance Behaviours And Dynamics

If you can, keep them all next to each other for a few days so they can meet through the bars and you can gauge the reactions before the full intros. I find it easier to bond them all together in a group than in stages where you get the full hierarchy sort-out each time for 2 weeks. You can also see quicker whether your older girl can cope with the other piggies or not, or whether she gets on with at least one of the others for company if they don't make it as a group. Having two pairs is a better alternative than having a single live-alongside piggy.

Please use diluted vinegar or a pet cleaner. Undiluted vinegar, washed away with warm water is good to get rid of limescale in the peeing corners, but it is not needed for a normal cage clean.

 

[Katiedid]

Perfect thank you. I have read the guide (I have read every guide that I can get my hands on - I have spent hours and hours reading (my head is spinning) - I want to do this properly - hence why I am reading up well in advance). I did some more reading last night and after that figured one big intro would be more ideal, which is fine, once Biscuit is out of quarantine then I will pop her side by side with Jet until the little furries are ready to be introduced. In the meantime I may do things like buy new correx, beds toys etc all ready for the big intro.

She is turning into quite a steady little lady, inquisitive, friendly (will come to you during floor time to see what you are up to), although she needs a bit more training on how to sit still on the scales!

Just to reassure you, if she passes quarantine and is healthy, but doesn't like Jet, I would pair her up rather than being alone - provided she is happy to accept another piggy.

 

[Katiedid]

P.S anything else anyone can throw at me to read or watch then please do. I suspect this is my bedtime reading for some time....

 

[Wiebke]

P.S anything else anyone can throw at me to read or watch then please do. I suspect this is my bedtime reading for some time....

You have to take it as it comes. Each bonding has it its own dynamics. Generally older sows are fine with a couple of young sows as that works as kind of a promotion to top sow of a group and is a huge gain in status, provided that the sow is confident in herself. It is likely trickier with Jet; you have to see how that goes. The babies will let him mount them as acceptance of both being a boar and his dominance, but your old lady may be a different kettle of fish.

You just have to see how it goes. At worst you have got kind of the scenario with Barri and at the best she is just sitting there and screaming murder, but letting him get on. As long as it is just vocal, you have to sit it out. If dominance is more balanced, but non-aggressive, you are most likely to end up with the piggies working out the leadership in rounds of teeth chattering in my experience (see Iola and Hafren), with resting/munching periods in between - this scenario can go either way depending on whether the losing piggy accept the loss of position or not.

 

[Katiedid]

Thank you and I know, I just don't want the reason for them to not get on to be my ineptitude......
I feel guilty about the time Dozy and Jet were apart (divided C&C cage) as when I look back I think there are things I could have done differently. I want my handsome little devil to be happy and have a friend that he so desperately wants, I want Biscuit to be happy and loved and well cared for and never ever to be left alone unloved in a cage lying in her own wee again - for whatever time she has with us.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you and I know, I just don't want the reason for them to not get on to be my ineptitude......
I feel guilty about the time Dozy and Jet were apart (divided C&C cage) as when I look back I think there are things I could have done differently. I want my handsome little devil to be happy and have a friend that he so desperately wants, I want Biscuit to be happy and loved and well cared for and never ever to be left alone unloved in a cage lying in her own wee again - for whatever time she has with us.

You often learn from mistakes more than from doing things right. Pet ownership, like parenting is a life long learning curve; the crucial bit is not about avoiding making any mistakes, but not repeating the same ones you've already made. We can always do things better in hindsight; a learning curve is a lot like driving a car at high speed and correcting your course constantly, but you usually swerve from one side to the other. It is not a straight drive.

All that is required of you as a caring owner is to do your best with the knowledge you have and to care about your pets. You do not have to be supermum because you can't be. You just have to be a mum that cares enough to make pet lives good ones.

I see it sadly far too often on this forum that members come on here with a zero tolerance to making mistakes and major anxiety issues as a consequence, which spoil the whole enjoyment they should have. Life is NOT about starting at the top and jumping over all the intermediate steps. Life is all about exactly those intermediate steps; it is about working towards the top (which you never reach anyway) and the acceptance that your whole life is a never finishing learning process.
You have to learn that making mistakes is OK; they come at a price, which is very important to learn to cope with and to go and do the same job again - hopefully this time better. If you are afraid of making mistakes and can't allow yourself to fail, then you prevent yourself from growing and you cage yourself in. Living vicariously through other people's experiences simply cannot replace building up your own experience.
You can do research and get tips about the most glaring issues to avoid, but you can also definitely over-research and block yourself completely in the process.

You have already got a good idea about what is most likely going to happen. You can never predict a bonding, so at some point you just have to jump into cold water and swim. It is not getting any easier the longer you dither. You won't harm your piggies as long as you have a safety net in the form of a plan B in case the bonding doesn't come off and you are willing to try other options.

Just go and give it a try. If it comes off, fine; if it doesn't, then you move onto the next likely option. Eventually you will find out what is the best solution.

For every successful bonding, I have a failed one. I've learned my lessons the hard way; have bungled some things and have got very upset. But I have also learned a lot that is benefitting my current piggies that I would not have if I hadn't made those mistakes, from the glaring to the subtle ones.

You really learn to read situations and piggy body language only by watching yours interact. The more you do, the better you get at picking up on the very subtle signals rather instinctively. That is something that nobody else can teach you. Learning to spot where the line is for your piggies and whether your piggies will cross it or just go right up to it, but NOT cross it is simply down to experience. As well as getting a feel for whether a bonding is ultimately going to work out, or will never turn into a happy one. But to get there, you have to prepared to make mistakes as the margins get finer and finer with experience. And sometimes, you simply misjudge it. Piggies are generally pretty forgiving on that score, so please do not be afraid!

 

[VickiA]

You just cannot tell how any bonding will go before you put the piggies in together. I wish we could predict how they will respond, but sadly we can't. I've had very successful bonding sessions and some that ended before they even got started. Your older lady may be delighted not to be alone, and play ball with the others. Or she may decide very firmly and quickly who she does or does not want to live with. As long as you have prepared a neutral space that is free of any of their scents and has nothing to fight over (beds etc) , and you have the time to sit it out (bondings can't be rushed), then you are as prepared as you can be. Just be ready with an oven glove and a towel (to protect yourself against a bite) and separate cages in case there is a need to separate them after the introduction.

 

[Katiedid]

Thank you both.

I know I will make mistakes, I just don't want to make stupid mistakes (which I also know I will and have made) if I can help it. And yes my one boar dictatorship may have entirely different ideas (indeed he is quite often full of novel ideas about how things should be - such as rearranging his cage the way he wants it after a clean), as may the matriarch of the clan. I have a plan B, it will be fine, I have a plan C too!

When we got the first 2, I knew I was the one with the responsibility, they were mine, but I got them because they make good pets for the kids. What I didn't foresee was that Hubby and I would become absolutely besotted by the little furry boys. I was sat on a work call the other day by the cage and Jet decided that I must be talking to him so he came and lay down beside me and as he was falling asleep he was quietly squeaking to/at me.

Once they are all out of quarantine (and I have been told today due to the weather the little ones will be arriving later than planned) we will pick a Sunday so I am around all day and go for it.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you both.

I know I will make mistakes, I just don't want to make stupid mistakes (which I also know I will and have made) if I can help it. And yes my one boar dictatorship may have entirely different ideas (indeed he is quite often full of novel ideas about how things should be - such as rearranging his cage the way he wants it after a clean), as may the matriarch of the clan. I have a plan B, it will be fine, I have a plan C too!

When we got the first 2, I knew I was the one with the responsibility, they were mine, but I got them because they make good pets for the kids. What I didn't foresee was that Hubby and I would become absolutely besotted by the little furry boys. I was sat on a work call the other day by the cage and Jet decided that I must be talking to him so he came and lay down beside me and as he was falling asleep he was quietly squeaking to/at me.

Once they are all out of quarantine (and I have been told today due to the weather the little ones will be arriving later than planned) we will pick a Sunday so I am around all day and go for it.

All the best! I doubt that you'll make any of the stupid mistakes. The rest is up to the piggies.

 

[VickiA]

I'm sure you will do just fine. Just dig deep into your reserve of nerves.

 

[Janice C]

Thank you both.

I know I will make mistakes, I just don't want to make stupid mistakes (which I also know I will and have made) if I can help it. And yes my one boar dictatorship may have entirely different ideas (indeed he is quite often full of novel ideas about how things should be - such as rearranging his cage the way he wants it after a clean), as may the matriarch of the clan. I have a plan B, it will be fine, I have a plan C too!

When we got the first 2, I knew I was the one with the responsibility, they were mine, but I got them because they make good pets for the kids. What I didn't foresee was that Hubby and I would become absolutely besotted by the little furry boys. I was sat on a work call the other day by the cage and Jet decided that I must be talking to him so he came and lay down beside me and as he was falling asleep he was quietly squeaking to/at me.

Once they are all out of quarantine (and I have been told today due to the weather the little ones will be arriving later than planned) we will pick a Sunday so I am around all day and go for it.

I'm due to try bonding my neutered boar, Oscar with Lottie and Lulu tomorrow so I've also read all the advice from the forum! He's been on his own for a few months since he fell out with his brother, Oliver.
Oliver was successfully bonded with a pair of chocolate Agoutis that I'd rescued. Was an easy bonding though as these girls are so laid back that they just accepted his presence! Not sure Lottie and Lulu will be the same!
Good luck when it comes to your bonding!
I've my thick towel ready!

 

[VickiA]

I'm due to try bonding my neutered boar, Oscar with Lottie and Lulu tomorrow so I've also read all the advice from the forum! He's been on his own for a few months since he fell out with his brother, Oliver.
Oliver was successfully bonded with a pair of chocolate Agoutis that I'd rescued. Was an easy bonding though as these girls are so laid back that they just accepted his presence! Not sure Lottie and Lulu will be the same!
Good luck when it comes to your bonding!
I've my thick towel ready!

Good luck @Janice C. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Janice C]

Good luck @Janice C. Let us know how you get on.

Will do!

 

[Katiedid]

Good luck! I hope it goes well xx

 

[Janice C]

Will do!

All fine so far!
Lottie is the Boss but I expected that.
Earlier Lottie was sitting next to Oscar, crept a little closer then put her nose under his chin and slowly pushed his head up! I know that's a dominance sign usually, and will be with Lottie but she did it so gently!
Lulu doesn't seem to mind him too much either but she does turn up the volume a little if he comes too close when she's eating! Nearly forgot! She peed right in his face yesterday! Won't sniff her bum again!