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can't eat post dental - new - help!

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pigsandbuns

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please help!

at the weekend i aquired two sick looking guinea pigs from a pet shop. it's a long storey but they were clearly not being looked after so i took them (i don't mean i stole them!)

straight away i could tell they were unhappy. they were motionless and un interested in anything. they couldn't eat either. i don't think they had ever seen a piece of veg in their lives and although they tried to eat, the food just fell out of their mouths. i still have not had one squeek out of them.

having two rescue house bunnies at home already, i recognised the signs that they had dental problems straight away. so i took them to the vets yesterday. they are exotics specialists and i know they are competant with dentals because of my bunnies.

glen is the smallest pig at just 5 months. He weighs just 330g which is nothing. Russell is (so i am told) 1 year old and weighs just 550g. They are both severly underweight. :(

all of glen's lower molars had overgrown and curved over but his uppers were ok. However russell's lower molars were fine but his uppers were all overgrown and curving over. There was no misalignment that could be seen.
It cost me a fortune!

anyway, they are now home and i am still having to mush up pellets so that glen can eat. russell is starting to eat some veg but it is a slow process. glen is perkier but he still can't eat the veg.

what can i do to help? as their teeth grow super fast, i really need to get them eating veg and hay as soon as possible. does anybody have any tips? it's just so terrible to see the veg falling out. as glen is still so young, do you think there could be any permanent damage to his jaw? when he eats, his jaw moves very slowly. i must say though that they are both trying very hard.

they are both on metacam and thankfully they love it.

i am totally new to pigs, if anybody can give me some tips or advise i would be so, so grateful. it drives me insane to see animals that have not been looked after properly. i just want them to have half a chance. thanks a million xx
 
awww thank god you rescued them.

Can you maybe try them with a yummy hay like Timothy? its dearer but lush to pigs i think. i got it for my sick pig as he wasnt eating his other hay.

I too have had a pig with dental probs and it broke my heart to see him suffer, sadly i lost him after his second visit to the vets as he didnt recover from the anaesthetic.

You will get loads of tips and advice on here, defo the place to be.

Syringe, Syringe, syringe.....good luck x:)
 
Welcome to the forum, I am sorry to hear these two piggies have such problems, at such a young age too.

You might find this link useful, if you have the time to read through it there are many suggestions on there:

http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=51677

Quite a few members here have/had pigs with dental problems, sometimes transient but very often chronic. Getting pigs to eat after dental work can be a frustrating experience, sometimes the incisors are cut short (either deliberately to correct a particular problem, or due to lack of awareness) and this is often the main issue. Will the boys eat anything if you cut it into small thin batons, or long thin pieces (similar to strands of hay) and "post" it carefully into their mouths? Some piggies will take cubed/diced veg, other will take grated veg...I've found thus far that every pig is different in the preferences.

I am pleased to see they are both on Metacam already, that will help as a pig in pain often won't even attempt to eat.

How much are you syringe-feeding them and how often?
 
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also, i used to roll up spring greens and slice thinly so you got long strips, my boy with bad teeth was able to eat that, again good luck x
 
Welcome to the forum - I'll try to help!

It sounds as though you are doing everything right - if they have an appetite that 's the biggest hurdle overcome. When you soak the pellets try not to make them so wet as they will have to grind them up a bit - they have to learn to use their muscles properly so it will be slow to start with. Daktarin oral gel helps a lot with a sore mouth, Metacam for general painrelief. Both are useful after dentals.

Try a few different pellets - Excel blackcurrant and oregano are smaller than the usual pellets so are easier to get in their mouths. Grass is usually a good bet - offer them the end of a long stalk.

I'm sure you'll get other members giving more ideas.

Suzy x
 
Poor piggies! So good of you to take them on and hopefully give them a happy life - even though they probably have to learn how to eat normally first.

Loss of appetite is not unusual after dental treatment as there mouths are very sore. I have no experience with dental problems myself (fingers crossed), but we have other members who do and who will be along during the course of the day.

Here is a link to the best medical website for guinea pigs; this link is for hand feeding. It gives you the amounts of nourishment they need. Please make sure that you also syringe water - you want to avoid dehydration through loss of appetite.

You can get instant powders from your vet or the internet, like Science Recovery or Critical Care. In a pinch, you can also mush up hay based pellets with a bit of warm water and feed that; little but often usually works best! You can also try to mush up a little bit of veg like carrots, but I would be careful with introducing too much veg straightaway, as their guts won't be used to them and could be upset. Weigh them daily to monitor their food intake.
http://www.guinealynx.info/handfeeding.html
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36533

If you are worried about lack of vitamin C (which guinea pigs cannot produce themselves unlike rabbits, you can dissolve part of a normal tablet in a little bit of water and syringe that. My suspicion is that your boys have had too little of it due to lack of eating.
http://www.guinealynx.info/scurvy.html
 
Just another thing more for future use, i dont know if this will help at all, but i could tell when Sid was starting with problems again as he dribbled a lot and i would all of a sudden find him wet under his mouth area so i looked for it then i could get him to vets asap
 
oh my gosh! thanks for the response everybody. it's amazing to know i am not in the dark and not totally alone with this one!

first up, i have got some timothy hay (the oxbow stuff?) and i could tell they were very interested in it (by bun winnie nearly had my hand off!) but i think it is a bit too thick and and hard for them. maybe i could chop it down into tiny pieces? in fact i'll try doing that and i'll mix it in with some of the pellet food.

the pellet food i am using is the science selective guinea pig nuggets, i use the bunny version of it for my rabbits as a treat and they go ga-ga for it. i must admit that i have made it into a total mush so what i'll do now is just use a little bit of water so that there is still somethiing to grind. i have not actually been syringe feeding them with anything, although the vet syringe fed them all day yesterday with the recovery food. i need to get some of the recovery food in urgently...... unfortunatly i am not very prepared as i wasn't expecting this! i'll order some today.

with regard to the vit c tablet - do i just get some normal tablets that we would have and chop it into 1/4's? i'll get some of those too.

i have given them a bowl to drink out of which they seem to be getting the grip of very well. they just couldn't get anything out of the water bottle. get this - when i was in the pet shop on sunday, it was around 3.30pm and their water bottle was full from being filled up on saturday. they hadn't had a drop and it was totally obvious - but the goon in the store didn't think anything of it - MAKES ME SO ANGRY!

i'll try to feed them their veggies by hand too and see if i can help them keep it in. i'll grate some veg up and i'll try other shapes and ideas too.

thanks everybody. i'll post back later and let you know how i'm getting on. i'll put a pic up of the little guys too.

Thanks you all so much, I really mean it :)
 
awww bless you and good luck with them. cant wait to see pics. x)

if you need any help with syringing I'm sure there is a thread up on here somewhere, hopefully they will be happy with it, others dont tolerate it at all he he he :)
 
Dissolve the tablet in double the amount of water that your syringe can hold, and then give one syringe full to each.

I am glad that they are drinking. Dehydration can do more damage than most people think and can lead lead to additional loss of appetite.

Parsley is a good source of vitamins and minerals, and most piggies will love the taste of it, so you may tempt them with a bit of chopped parsley to try and get them to use their teeth.

You are doing great and your boys couldn't have come to a better place!
 
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I am not much help with advice but just wanted to say how fantastic it is that you have taken them in.
 
helen105281 said:
I am not much help with advice but just wanted to say how fantastic it is that you have taken them in.
Click to expand...

Well said.

By the way, i love the pic you have on your profile, piggy looks like my first ever pig Sid (who i lost due to dental issues), beautiful xx)
 
Thanks :) am sorry you lost Sid he must have been gorgeous.
 
Hi

Sorry to be coming in late with this but

if their teeth where as bad as they sound you may need to be getting their teeth checked and clipped every week, so if you can find a local rodentoligist who will do this without GA. it will take a couple of visits to get them back in shape

This is providing that they are not bread from one of those breeds that are known to carry genetic deformaties as they do sound a bit young to be having these problems for no other reason. Unless they have been in a cage with nothing to eat at all, which also sounds like the pet shop you got them from.

As for feed, have you tried the thin french beans, they are just the right size to slip past the front teeth and onto the back teeth.

Also can I ask what area you live in.


Hope this is of help

Regards

SGP
 
Welcome to the forum, how fantastic of you to have taken these piggies on.

As SGP said finding a rodentologist may be a good idea, also depending on where you live it might be worth joining the Cambridge Cavy Trust - it costs £30 p/year but you get free dentals treatment.

Wagg Optimum Pellets for guineas are another which are really really small pellets. They come in a burgundy bag and you can get them in Tesco & Asda.

Good luck x
 
Hi all :)p

When i got home from work yesterday the veg bowl was pretty much empty which was AMAZING to see. The down side of this is that I think russell pretty much ate it all. I was giving them food last night and I could see that although Glen was trying very hard, he was still struggling to keep it all in. I fed him long slithers of various veggies and although they went far in, eventually it all came back out again it some form of chewed state! I sat and observed for half an hour or so and I did see one strand of parsely go in and stay in and he adored the cucumber but the skin popped back out again.

I made sure that Glen had plenty of hard food too though (but slightly mushed, but not totally) after he had given the veg his best shot. I still can't get over how tiny he is. He looks more like a hamster.

Thanks for the runner bean tip - I will see how that goes.

I live in Manchester so the CCT would be almost impossible :( The thing with all this is, is that I already have a dental bunny who costs me £120- £150 every month or two so I defo cannot afford to carry on with dentals for two piggies. I just physically would not have the money. I am just desparatly hoping that they start to work those teeth more. I am convinced they would have died in that shop though, there is no doubt.

My vet is Ashleighs Vetinary Centre in Whaley Range, Manchester. They are very good, although they did do the dental under GA. If I could find somewhere that didn't do it under GA that would help me out A LOT. Does anybody know of a a good vet in manchester that can do a proffessional dental job without GA? I am going to have get googleing.....

I have been syringe feeding them water too, even though they are pretty good at drinking from the bowl. They love the syringe! I can't get it out of Glen's mouth half the time. Today I am calling into the Vet to get some supremem science recovery food as I am still not convinced Glen is getting anywhere near enough food still. Especially as I can't get home at lunch (I do leave plenty out though).
 
some pics....

this is russell

4931547548


4931542614


and this is glen - he looks like he just got out of bed the whole time! he has the cutest scruffy bum

4930952817


4931543974


4931540978
 
good luck with all you are doing, arent they good little piggies for trying so hard ^), its heartbreaking to see them get so small :(

Keep going, and i wish you well in your quest to find a vet that wont use g/a, vets fees are so high arent they.

At least you can be happy in the knowledge that they are happier than they were in the store :)
 
There is apparently an RHA (Rodent Health Advisor - one level down from fully qualified rodentologist) in the Manchester area - Rochdale - but I have had no contact with her myself and I am not aware of anyone who has visisted her, but it may be worth phoning her and seeing if she could do the dental work for the piggies? At the bottom of this page she does list that prices for dentistry are available on application, whether she is able to trim the molars I don't know, but worth finding out:
http://www.scarletguineas.co.uk/whatisarodentologist.htm

I also have a factsheet about syringe feeding which you might find useful, I can email it across to you if you like - if you are interested let me know at [email protected] and I can send it straight away. :)
 
They are really cute little things but I see what you mean about them looking more like hamster size. Sounds like you're doing a fab job. Really hope you can nurse them to full health x
 
thanks guys. i'll give scarletguineas a ring or drop her an email. i need to make sure i have all of this in place for when (hopefully if) they need another dental.

How soon do you think they will need to have another dental? I presume it will be quite hard for me to tell because they are struggleing to eat already. when i picked them up last sunday i couldn't see any traces of drool..... but i guess I will be able to tell from their body language perhaps?
 
I could only tell with the drooling and if he didnt touch his carrots x

They really are beautiful but soooo small :(
 
pigsandbuns said:
thanks guys. i'll give scarletguineas a ring or drop her an email. i need to make sure i have all of this in place for when (hopefully if) they need another dental.

How soon do you think they will need to have another dental? I presume it will be quite hard for me to tell because they are struggleing to eat already. when i picked them up last sunday i couldn't see any traces of drool..... but i guess I will be able to tell from their body language perhaps?
Click to expand...

I've had two dental pigs of late, neither ate anything for themselves - 100% syringe fed, no effort at all to eat solid food.

One pig had molar problems and a misaligned jaw. She required dentals a minimum of once every 7 days. The ideal was every 5 days, but every 9 days was too long to go between dentals. When she was due dental work, she would take her syringe feeds slower, she would dribble more saliva, her behaviour suggested she was less comfortable e.g. a touch restless, squinting her eyes more than normal. On occasion when her dental work was due you could hear her molars grinding against each other, not something I heard when her teeth were trimmed to the correct length.

The other dental pig is the one I have at the moment, she started off with other medical problems but as she has relied on syringe feeds for some time, she has finally succumbed to dental issues. She has molar and incisor problems. She has managed thus far to go as long as two weeks between dental work. The last time she had a dental was on 11 August and the next time was today, her teeth were overgrown but not horrifically so - enough to require a trim fairly soon, but not enough to be of dire concern. You can hear very clearly when she is due a trim, her molars click together very audibly as she chews her syringe food. Her eyes also appear sunken when her teeth have overgrown. I had a look at her molars yesterday before her latest trim and it was obvious which were the overgrown ones, although they were not severely overgrown you could see the lower left were growing towards the tongue, and the upper right were growing out towards the cheek.

It does vary between pigs and it does depend what the specific dental problem is, and how long the dentition has been incorrect. I would recommend weekly checks until they are eating normally, they may not need work doing every week but the teeth need close monitoring - the earlier a problem is spotted and corrected, the better chance the pig has of maintaining the correct dentition. Keep up the syringe feeding too.

You're doing well, keep up the great work. :)
 
Are all these dental issues down to breeding and breeding and breeding? ie hereditary? Or is it just a case of them being unlucky?
 
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