Castrates, Prolapses etc

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karenrgpr

:) Recently there has been a lot of referring to prolapses during castration, of which I have to say out of the 50 odd pigs (at least) that I've had done I have never experienced. So, some questions, I would like to know more from those that have experienced this.

1. What is it exactly that prolapses?

2. When, in relation to the op does it happen?

3. Did you feedback to your vet?

4. Apart from abscesses (which I've had 3 post castrate) what other 'health problems are there?

Rescues views/experiences welcome (either positive or negative ).

I would love to know which vets are doing these ops too but that needs to be kept off the boards.
 
karenrgpr said:
:) Recently there has been a lot of referring to prolapses during castration, of which I have to say out of the 50 odd pigs (at least) that I've had done I have never experienced. So, some questions, I would like to know more from those that have experienced this.

1. What is it exactly that prolapses?

2. When, in relation to the op does it happen?

3. Did you feedback to your vet?

4. Apart from abscesses (which I've had 3 post castrate) what other 'health problems are there?

Rescues views/experiences welcome (either positive or negative ).

I would love to know which vets are doing these ops too but that needs to be kept off the boards.
Click to expand...

Hi karen,

I have had 2 piggies have ovarian cysts ( more then 1 as well). The 1st piggy, which one of the cysts were the size of a tangerine and had moved her organs. recovered fully after 5days. Which to me is a miracle in its self.

My other piggy had ovarian cysts too but not as big. She didn't not eat at all after the operation. Temporarily anorexia. I took her home afterwards and she was back to the vets within 24 hours. I tried hand feeding her but it wasn't working and she was going down hill fast. The vets prepared me for the worse but with patiences and fantastic care from the nurses and the vets and with me visiting every day. She was better after 3 weeks. She was a miracle too. My vets are extremely good and would recommend them to anyone. They are very knowledgeable about piggies too.

You have been very lucky, is all i can say. As everyone knows operation are extremely risky and i do say it is down to the piggy as well, not just the vets. Its like humans most people recover fully from operations but there is a few that don't. My piggy was the unlucky one but she is still with us at a ripe old age of 5 years old (TODAY!). Her operation was in 2005. I know you will say that they could have been just drained but this ones had to be removed. The reason they had it was the breeder i go them from had over bred the mum. These were my 1st piggies and now know i better.

I wont get my boars done unless is due to medical reasons.

Michele
 
The 'prolapse' people talk about Karen, is it a prolapse from the bottom or a prolapse of organs through the wound where it has obviously come open?....intrigued
 
Piggiewiggy said:
karenrgpr said:
:) Recently there has been a lot of referring to prolapses during castration, of which I have to say out of the 50 odd pigs (at least) that I've had done I have never experienced. So, some questions, I would like to know more from those that have experienced this.

1. What is it exactly that prolapses?

2. When, in relation to the op does it happen?

3. Did you feedback to your vet?

4. Apart from abscesses (which I've had 3 post castrate) what other 'health problems are there?

Rescues views/experiences welcome (either positive or negative ).

I would love to know which vets are doing these ops too but that needs to be kept off the boards.
Click to expand...

Hi karen,

I have had 2 piggies have ovarian cysts ( more then 1 as well). The 1st piggy, which one of the cysts were the size of a tangerine and had moved her organs. recovered fully after 5days. Which to me is a miracle in its self.

My other piggy had ovarian cysts too but not as big. She didn't not eat at all after the operation. Temporarily anorexia. I took her home afterwards and she was back to the vets within 24 hours. I tried hand feeding her but it wasn't working and she was going down hill fast. The vets prepared me for the worse but with patiences and fantastic care from the nurses and the vets and with me visiting every day. She was better after 3 weeks. She was a miracle too. My vets are extremely good and would recommend them to anyone. They are very knowledgeable about piggies too.

You have been very lucky, is all i can say. As everyone knows operation are extremely risky and i do say it is down to the piggy as well, not just the vets. Its like humans most people recover fully from operations but there is a few that don't. My piggy was the unlucky one but she is still with us at a ripe old age of 5 years old (TODAY!). Her operation was in 2005. I know you will say that they could have been just drained but this ones had to be removed. The reason they had it was the breeder i go them from had over bred the mum. These were my 1st piggies and now know i better.

I wont get my boars done unless is due to medical reasons.

Michele
Click to expand...

This was post spay was it? I am not talking about ops in general, just castrates. I know spays are risky, I had one sow spayed before I knew about hormone injs and before my present vets. These days I don't think I would spay even for medical reasons.
 
hils78 said:
The 'prolapse' people talk about Karen, is it a prolapse from the bottom or a prolapse of organs through the wound where it has obviously come open?....intrigued
Click to expand...

OK, I want to know what organs. I know there are 2 ways of doing the op and something about boars having a bigger space allowing the testes to drop into it.

I want to know what organs prolapse and when in relation to the op.

Edit: sorry Hils, totally misread your post, I have no idea whether people are talking organs (internal) or penis's. Hence the request for enlightment.
 
It is the abdomiinal contents( intestines)which herniate.Gps are predisposed to this problem because of the open inguanal canal.
 
So what prolapses and can this happen with either method? When in relation to the op does this happen? I have honestly never heard from anyone that this has happened to their castrated boars and I am in touch with most of them- not daily but I do get told when guineas die.

What are the other risks?
 
karenrgpr said:
Edit: sorry Hils, totally misread your post, I have no idea whether people are talking organs (internal) or penis's. Hence the request for enlightment.
Click to expand...
Lol I'm intrigued too
 
Herniation and prolapse are the same thing,and it is the intestines that prolapse.This can happen any time from a few hours npost op to 2 or 3 years later.

The hormonal changes brought about by castration can hasten the onset of any genetic or other weakness in the pig.If the boar has any cardiac,thoracic, renal defect the onset of problems may be earlier than in a non castrated boar.
 
Thankyou Mary, this is on my list of things to discuss next time I meet my vet :)

So, any underlying problems are likely to be speeded up by castration then? Can I ask where you have read this, I'm sure you'll appreciate that with having so many boars castrated I want to know everything I can about it, including the likeliehood of prolapse happening. The underlying health problems would just be treated sooner rather than later (or not resulting in death of course, therefore death in a castrated pig would be earlier). I would like to read any literature you have on this please.

What are the symptoms of a guinea suffering from a hernia and what can be done if anything? I would imagine the timescale to get to the vet is quite small.

Sorry for all the questions but which 'method' of surgery is the safer one?

Anyone else with Prolapse experience? I was under the impression that quite a few had experienced it with their pigs?
 
Sorry to sound stupid here - but are we talking about a prolapse that comes from the anus or from the surgical wound made when castrating? Got to get my facts straight! and my brain is far too addled to work out which! Hx
 
karenrgpr said:
Piggiewiggy said:
karenrgpr said:
:) Recently there has been a lot of referring to prolapses during castration, of which I have to say out of the 50 odd pigs (at least) that I've had done I have never experienced. So, some questions, I would like to know more from those that have experienced this.

1. What is it exactly that prolapses?

2. When, in relation to the op does it happen?

3. Did you feedback to your vet?

4. Apart from abscesses (which I've had 3 post castrate) what other 'health problems are there?

Rescues views/experiences welcome (either positive or negative ).

I would love to know which vets are doing these ops too but that needs to be kept off the boards.
Click to expand...

Hi karen,

I have had 2 piggies have ovarian cysts ( more then 1 as well). The 1st piggy, which one of the cysts were the size of a tangerine and had moved her organs. recovered fully after 5days. Which to me is a miracle in its self.

My other piggy had ovarian cysts too but not as big. She didn't not eat at all after the operation. Temporarily anorexia. I took her home afterwards and she was back to the vets within 24 hours. I tried hand feeding her but it wasn't working and she was going down hill fast. The vets prepared me for the worse but with patiences and fantastic care from the nurses and the vets and with me visiting every day. She was better after 3 weeks. She was a miracle too. My vets are extremely good and would recommend them to anyone. They are very knowledgeable about piggies too.

You have been very lucky, is all i can say. As everyone knows operation are extremely risky and i do say it is down to the piggy as well, not just the vets. Its like humans most people recover fully from operations but there is a few that don't. My piggy was the unlucky one but she is still with us at a ripe old age of 5 years old (TODAY!). Her operation was in 2005. I know you will say that they could have been just drained but this ones had to be removed. The reason they had it was the breeder i go them from had over bred the mum. These were my 1st piggies and now know i better.

I wont get my boars done unless is due to medical reasons.

Michele
Click to expand...

sorry read it wrong. had a bad afternoon someone i know has passed away

This was post spay was it? I am not talking about ops in general, just castrates. I know spays are risky, I had one sow spayed before I knew about hormone injs and before my present vets. These days I don't think I would spay even for medical reasons.
Click to expand...
 
No worries Piggy Wiggy, thanks for your detailed reply :) I'm truly sorry to hear of your loss, there are no words.
 
I know babywilson on here lost Angus through prolapse soon after surgery to castrate him, but I havent seen her on here for a while :-\
 
Its people like her that I would like to hear from. I have several questions for her that can be answered by PM. The hormonal changes is most interesting and the one I would like to pursue also.
 
Karen,

The theory of hormonal disruption hastening underlying organ defects is mine,based on my study and experience.Afraid there i are no scientific papers to back me up. I have never had a boar castrated,but have adopted several who have already been done.None of them lived to more than 3 years, and 4 ouut of 6 of them had heart attacks.The other 2 had kidney problems.Co-incidence-maybe. ,but the majority of my pigs live to 7 plus years.Castration in human males causes problems because of the loss of the testesterone,and life expectancy is shorter.


Prolapse. This is a proven fact. Gps have a large inguinal canal which is difficult to close during surgery.

The prolapse can accur within 48 hours of surgery,in which case the intestine would bulge through the sutures.Prolapse in the form of herrniation into the groin can occur at any time,although this is not so common.

There are references to this:-

V.Richardson MA Vet MB MRCVS - Diseases of Guinea Pigsa

Tufts University--Rodent Medicine

Cavy Spirit

J.Harkness DVM- Biology of Rodents
 
I know a lot about prolapse in livestock, but not guinea pigs sadly....

I know michellemuffin knows a lot about prolapse in guineas, as she experienced it herself sadly, but I dont know if she posts here anymore... :-\
 
Was that boar or sow and had he/she been neutered. Thanks for your contribution PP. :)

Thanks for all this Mary. Firstly I have never said Herniation is not true (or Prolapse, the two are different), my question was to try and find out how common the occurence was, when it happened in relation to the op and if feedback was given (a good vet will thrive on feedback). The literature was for the hormonal change (which you have explained thanks) :)

As for the person that wrote that book I'm sure you know she has a practise not a million miles from Reading, she also has a few ex clients that visit Reading with their guineas now too, nuff said. :) The success rate for castrates given by that practise is absolutely appauling (by their own admission,), I wouldn't let them anywhere near my pigs let alone necessary surgery- fact :)


I currently have a 5 year old castrated boar and one of the first rescues that was castrated is now 5. This is interesting and I'm going to go and look at the boars I've rehomed. It was only 5 years ago that I found someone I trusted enough to do surgery on my pigs (and the rescues) he was a great guinea competent vet but that didn't make him a great surgeon. The last 3 boars that have died (rescue) were not castrated but living in pairs, one was two but I have no idea about the others as they were abandoned- adults and judging by their nails not too senior :)

I was talking to a 'cat' friend of mine about it tonight and she said its been shown to increase life expectancy in cats, will try and get this info from a site, I couldn't find any mention of it in any species.

Was the study on men based on ones with testicular cancer or healthy men? Dogs, cats and rabbits seem to cope fine?

I assume you've had bloods and post mortems done to prove how these animals died or is this pure observation? You can't prove kidney disease. Regarding the heart only a post mortem will confirm if it was heart damage that the pig died of.
I think there are problems with castration (have never heard of any actual 'live' cases though) but with a good surgeon who uses the closed method and the correct amount of pain relief (another possible cause?) given at the correct time. I'm pretty sure our vet gives Rimadyl before the op.


Just out of interest how many pigs do you know of that have prolapsed?


Thinking about it I've also heard of cases of testicular cancer diagnosed by a vet, I guess you choose your operation you pick your complication :) (Thats not to say that all uncastrated males will get testicular cancer- have never had one here) :)
 
I think we have to be caareful here not to get to scientific for a forum of this kind.
Hernia/prolapse/ruture are just words for the same thing,there are only slight technical differnces.

Which book are you referring to,I am not aware that any author of the books mentioned has a vetinary practise.,sounds like a book to be dumped!.

I agree,the sucess of any surgery depends on the surgeon and to a large extent the aneasthetist.Before I met my present vets surgery for my pigs was almost a death sentence,now the survival rate is almost 100%.Also the post op complications are minimal.

The human study was on both healthy men and men with malignancy.I do not know about dogs,cats or rabbits.

Yes,I did have pms done ,but not in every case,too expensive.

Pm will prove renal disease only if the kidney is abnormal.

I have only seen one piggy with prolapse,which was 12 hours post op.The others , approx. 10 I was only told about,but in all cases the information was from a very reliable source.

You have had 50 pigs castrated,aand I know a rescue near me castrates boars on a regular basis before rehoming.Their lev el of deaths is I believe quite low.but they have a very experienced surgeon.

I think the bottom line here is only to have the boar castrated if there is no other option,and only use an experienced gp vet.I do understand that rehoming centres such as you run,have got to have boars neutered to stop the indiscriminate breeding which may result in the babies having to be found homes by the rescue.

I think this is one of those contraversial subjects that is never going to be resolved
 
Hi, I won't mention the person Mary :) I have no idea how good the book is, I have it but don't find it useful.

You're right about different circumstances etc, my boars are castrated so they can be paired quicker and get a chance to have a Forever Home quicker rather than spend their lives waiting for a boar lover ::) I have had a few people that obviously want to breed pets but they don't even have to say thats what they want to do (I think one wanted a nice Abby type who was possibly purebred) its quite obvious.

I'm not for promoting castration as such, more like castration by a good surgeon and those are usually the ones that rescues use. I do also bond adult boars with warning that they may need splitting, but the vast majority of my pigs go to adults who keep their pigs in C+C cages indoors where they can be observed- the last baby/adult pairing I rehomed needed splitting and were castrated so they could each live with sows, one of the boars has since died and the 'baby' boar now has 2 sows :)

So, I will carry on :) and if it affects the lifespan at least they will have gotten to their Forever Home , quality not quantity :)

I don't think we should be looking for a resolution but looking for a choice and warning of the possible outcomes of both :) Hopefully we do that here :)
 
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