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Daktarin Oral Gel?

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sophiew (EAGPR)

sophiew (EAGPR)

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Hi

I have been stocking up on some items for the first aid box, after Laura's post - had most of it, but one thing I can't find is Daktarin oral gel. I went in 3 chemists and Tesco today but no luck. I ended up with Boots brand 'sore mouth gel' but wondered if it's ok to use or not - the active ingredient is Cetylpyridinium choloride and lidocaine - anyone any idea? Obviously I won't use it if we're not sure, I'll put it in the human first aid instead!

Otherwise - where can I get the Daktarin one?

Thanks

Sophie
x
 
I got the Daktarin Oral Gel from Boots, they keep it behind the counter though so I had to ask for it. It contains Miconazole 20mg per 1g of gel. Sorry, can't help with the other one you mentioned!
 
Sophie,

Daktarin oral gel is the trade name of miconazole oral gel of strength 20mg miconazole in each gram of gel. It is commonly used in babies for oral thrush. Potential side effects (in humans) are diarrhoea (with long term use), hepatitis, nausea and vomiting, and TEN and other skin disorders (quoted from the British National Formulary - the 'drug bible' used in the NHS). Having said that, it is very commonly used in babies. The 15g tube is available over the counter in a chemist, but only for human use (so don't tell them if you intend using it for piggies)

For the first gel you mentioned, it sounds like a 'bonjela' type thing. Bonjela has now been removed from the market for under 16 year old humans, because it contains small amounts of salicylates (aspirin type drug) which can have very serious side effects in children.
Lidocaine is another name for lignocaine - ie it is a local anaesthetic. Personally i would not be happy using either of these on piggies.
I need to check up on the other drug in your first gel - give me 10 mins....

I hope this information is helpful. this is not supposed to be advice for or against any of the medications you've mentioned, but just some information so you can make an informed descision. Oh, and the usual disclaimers about taking pets to vet for proper professional treatment asap etc. rolleyes

Becca
 
More info:

Wikipaedia (sorry couldn't fine anything more accurate or academic):Cetylpyridinium chloride (CPC) is a cationic quaternary ammonium compound in some types of mouthwashes, toothpastes, lozenges, throat sprays, anti-sore throat sprays, breath sprays, and nasal sprays. It is an antiseptic that kills bacteria and other microorganisms. It has been shown to be effective in preventing dental plaque and reducing gingivitis. It has also been used as an ingredient in certain pesticides. However, this ingredient has also been alleged (according to WebMD,[1] eMedicine,[2]) to cause brown stains between the teeth.

i did find another reference saying that in Japan, they have a limit for the concentration of CPC in cosmetics.

Did i mention that lidocaine can cause confusion, respiratory depression, convulsions, drop in blood pressure, slow heart rate and possibly cardiac arrest (if enough gets in your system). again this is info for humans, so draw your own conculsions. ?/

Becca
 
"Did i mention that lidocaine can cause confusion, respiratory depression, convulsions, drop in blood pressure, slow heart rate and possibly cardiac arrest (if enough gets in your system). again this is info for humans, so draw your own conculsions"

Did it say that in the BNF?


Use Daktarin in preference to the other product. The problem with any gel etc that contains a surface anaesthetic is that whilst it stops the pain from an ulcer it also stops the pain if you/guinea pig chew your tongue or cheek and thereby get into a vicious circle.
 
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You run the real risk of frightening yourself when you read of possible side effects, the warnings must be taken in context.
 
alcesterpigs said:
"Did i mention that lidocaine can cause confusion, respiratory depression, convulsions, drop in blood pressure, slow heart rate and possibly cardiac arrest (if enough gets in your system). again this is info for humans, so draw your own conculsions"

Did it say that in the BNF?

QUOTE]

Sorry i didn't mean to upset anyone. please do not take things the wrong way. I have got the impression that Sophie is a very sensible lady. I was wanting/hopeing to provide information from which she could base any choices she wished to make. I was trying to be helpful, and i apologise if i have made things worse.

the list of side effects of lidocaine are from the BNF. The only reason i have quoted them is that if enough is used, it could potentially kill a pig, and i feel people should be aware of that. i do not know how much this would take, but to give you an idea as little as 20-30mls of 1% lidocaine given sc (ie similar absoprtion as in the mouth) could cause the side effects above in an adult human. i have seen this when i worked in hospital. However given in doses appropriate for bodyweight it is a very safe and good anaesthetic drug.

i do not want to scare anyone, but lidocaine is potentially v dangerous, if used in the wrong quantities for body weight.

alcesterpigs, i agree that reading side effects is often worry making without reason, but in the case of a few drugs it is important. i am not a vet, i am a doctor. i do not know about treating animals. but unless GP heart muscle cells are radically different to human heart muscle cells the response to absorbed and circulating lidocaine will be the same.

i feel i have probably said too much and have upset too many people. i probably should not have posted anything in the first place. Many people on this forum are more experienced with guinea pigs than me. maybe the only comment i should have made was 'if you have any questions on the appropriateness of drugs, please speak to your vet'.
my apologies to all,

Becca
Click to expand...
 
No, please don't apologise - very interesting, I asked because I wanted answers, so now I know it's not the same as the Daktarin I will persevere and find that one!

Although saying that, with THOSE side effects I think I'll hesitate to use it on humans too :))

I only asked because the Daktarin one is often recommended and therefore other people have used it safely. This one I was unsure of - hence my original question.

Thanks for everyone's input!
Sophie
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as alcesterpigs says side effects lists can be scary (sorry to paraphrase)

to put it into perspective, i did happily prescribe daktarin oral gel to a 7 day old baby earlier today rolleyes :))
none of the (human)side effects of daktarin are potentially fatal. if i had some in the house, and i thought it would be appropriate for what was wrong with my piggies, i'd be happy giving it as a stop gap until i got them to the vets for a professional opinion.
 
I've given Daktarin oral gel to two pigs now. One got soft poos from it, and the other has been fine, so it's definitely one to watch.
 
You have to be careful about coincidences and not assume that Daktarin caused digestive problems. I have used Daktarin for many years on pigs and never had any problems.
 
I was very certain it was the Daktarin, but it was in a pig who had reacted to medications before, so not altogether unexpected.
 
Off back to Boots today to swap the one I bought for Daktarin :)

I don't have an immediate use for it, just wanted to have it to hand as so many pigs here!

Thanks all

Sophie
x
 
Good to hear! :)

I have used Daktarin for some consecutive weeks in the past without a problem - a course for an oral fungal infection lasts 3 weeks, and I ended up using a dose at least twice a week when Tuppy's dental problems were at their worst.

As with humans, some pigs will be sensitive to something most other pigs are not. You'll usually know after one or two doses.
 
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