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Diarrohea massive problem - need help please

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Tani

Tani

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Hi all.

This is a continuation from my pig Fluffy on the thread 'Urgent - URI advice'

I tried to continue the thread together but had no response and I could really do with some help.

In a nutshell (for those who don't know her history)

She had a URI & static lice.
Been treating lice with neem & lice shampoo (still as she keeps getting them! Her cage mate not though so it must be because she is run down).
Was treated for a long time with Baytrill for the URI & had an xray to rule out stones etc.
Fed her on Critical care during the whole process.
She suffered severe bloating during the period but we constantly rubbed and patted her better (& used Buscopan for a couple of days) and that is now fine.

Obviously her poops were a mix of hard and soft and once we stopped the baytril, she got back to normal to our relief. However, this is at least 2 weeks + now and she is constantly with diarrohea and is always covered in it. I've tried everything from going back to basics with just pure fresh water (always filtered) her normal nuggets & herbage hay to adding Pro Biotics to her water and trying her with the pure Timothy Hay & those special fibre sticks you can buy now (which she won't eat).

She finally got up to 800g but now she is down to 735 and we just can't get her to put weight on. She is bad at eating more when hand fed (think she got used to it from being syringe fed critical care?)

I talked to the vet about it but he is at a loss and is going to try and see whether he can give her any of the fibre powder they use for dogs.

She is drinking lots. She is eating her fresh veg (I would reduce these but she really needs to put weight on so have stopped the cucumber)


Does anyone have any other ideas the vet won't suggest? She just looks so tiny now and as she is about 5 years old, I'm worried it will take its toll on her.

Thanks in advance.
 
Hi, it can take some piggies quite a while for their guts to get back to normal after being on antibiotics. I would continue to syringe feed her the critical care to suppliment what she is eating on her own and add plenty of probiotic to the syringe food to make sure she is getting plenty, rather than relying on just adding it to her water. is she well in herself otherwise and the URI gone?
 
Stop all fresh veg. Feed hay, nuggets and critical care only. Protexin Fibreplex is a probiotic that is particularly good for diarrhoea. You can add oats to her food to increase calorie intake but the important thing is stop the veg and increase the fibre in the form of hay and critical care
 
Hello,

yes generally she is up at the food/hay bowl and even when she has a bad bout, she seems fairly sprightly. She was always quite small so probably the runt and she just battles on with it.

I would feel so bad stopping her veggies - but if it's the best thing for her then I will do. Will I need to add extra vit c drops to her water instead then?
I have tried adding the pro biotic to her critical care before but will try it again. She does drink loads though - luckily.

Not heard of Protexin - is it via the vets only or can I get that on the internet do you know? My vet never suggested it but they are a bit rubbish tbh.

I'm using the pro-biotic in the yellow tub (green powder) that you get from pets at home. I also have some of the vitamin drops that you put in their water which I have tried both of.

thank you
 
Please stop all veg as soon as you have diarrhoea problems and only re-introduce them slowly and carefully one by one again after the poos have stabilised and are staying stable during the introductory process.

Piggy guts can take quite a long time to stabilise after they have been out of kilter from bloating or a prolonged course of antibiotic. Weigh her daily at the same time and then top her up with hand feed to keep her weight up as necessary.

Also syringe her the daily vitamin c dose (about 1/4 to 1/8 of a full tablet) after you have dissolved it in 1 ml of water for best effect and control of intake. In a bottle, it will just go off and you can't control the real intake. Please also make sure that she is still drinking water, otherwise syringe that, too.

To help her guts recover, you can also soak fresh poos from other piggies in a bit of water and offer her the resulting poo soup; it contains all the right kind of bacteria. You find that recovering piggies are often hanging on their friends' bottoms for exactly that reason. Most piggies are quite enthusiastic about poo soup!

There is a range of probiotics available over the internet; continue with the p@h one until you get more fibrous ones.
 
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Wiebke that did make me laugh about the poo soup! lol! It sounds so wrong but I will try it, haha.

No problem re the veg. I will feed her cage mate separately then and hopefully she will start to eat more hay instead. I don't have any vitamin C tablets - only the drops from PAH. Should I make that dose up or see if the vets can get me the Vit c tabs instead?

Luckily we both work from home so I can keep an eye on her and make sure she is eating.

Aw thanks guys, more help here than the vets!
x
 
You can dissolve the necessary dose of drops in 1ml of water; please take into consideration that the recommended dose is for a full bottle and not just for the individually variable fluid intake per piggy. she should be drinking more without the extra fluids from the veg. Otherwise, you can simply use human dissolvable or chewy vitamin C. Oxbow offer animal vitamin C tablet, but you have to order them.

I know that it is not much fun feeding a piggy separately, but it is the only way to get on top of the digestive problem.
 
Thanks again.

Well we have practically been hand feeding/medicine syringing her for what seems months now and although she hates it, we take it in turns to do and she just gets used to it.
Will double check the doses and start tonight.

^)
 
Have you tried hand feeding her hay? Whilst she is not getting any veg try to hand feed her bits of hay to keep up her interest in it. I usually buy a specialist treat hay & give mine that if they are poorly, they usually love it & the softer bits are sometimes more tempting. Plenty of hay will bulk the poos up as well, which is what you want. I would also continue syringe feeding, I use Recovery or softened Harrington's pellets, as mine don't like Critical Care. You can order Fibreplex online & squirt the dosage into the Recovery/Critical Care or softened pellets & mix it in. Diarrohea is very serious in piggies so make sure she is drinking or you are syringing small amounts of water throughout the day & after each feed. If it persists or there is blood in the diarrohea you need to see the very urgently. Hope she recovers quickly :)
 
Oo I will see if I can order some of the Recovery or H's pellets as she hates CC and it'sa struggle to feed her with it. Her cage mate tries to eat the crusted bits of her feed blanket if he gets too near, ha ha.
She is definately drinking loads and I hold the bottle for her as well if she hasn't moved from her snug regularly to get it. She always takes it so I think sometimes she is just lazy.
No blood - thankfully.
I also gave her a wad of hay near her snug and she munched on it so I will just suck up the mess and move the bowl near where she chills out as I think she will eat more if it's close by.

Going to write a list now of all your advice so I can work out a system for her :)
 
@ poppy's mum - I just checked out the pellets and wanted to check if they are better than the excel (orange bag) or the PAH version I use already? She eats these already on her own so I think I'm probably best trying the Recover instead of the CC as an addition. Is that right?
Is it the Supreme Science Recover which is about £17 a box? for 10 sachets.

@ Amanda1801 Re Oats - is this normal breakfast oats that you can make into porridge that I can feed her? in their raw state, not cooked (obviously).
 
When any of my piggies lose their appetite because of meds or post-op etc I always give them one notch (1ml) of Fibreplex. On the box it says 3 times a day for 2 days but one or two does are usually enough. You can get it from the vets or direct from Vet UK, you don't need a prescription. To try and add a little weight, give Fluffly some porridge oats either in a bowl by itself or add to her pellets or muesli. I give mine this in the winter most days but only once a week in the summer when the're getting plenty of fresh grass & dandelions. You can either give Scotts Porridge Oats or Quaker Oats if you eat porridge yourself but if not just get the supermarket own label type which are 75p to 80p a kilo. Also you gould give her unsweetened cranberry juice which has vitamins & is more tasty than water. Mine also like tomato juice.
 
Stewybus said:
When any of my piggies lose their appetite because of meds or post-op etc I always give them one notch (1ml) of Fibreplex. On the box it says 3 times a day for 2 days but one or two does are usually enough. You can get it from the vets or direct from Vet UK, you don't need a prescription. To try and add a little weight, give Fluffly some porridge oats either in a bowl by itself or add to her pellets or muesli. I give mine this in the winter most days but only once a week in the summer when the're getting plenty of fresh grass & dandelions. You can either give Scotts Porridge Oats or Quaker Oats if you eat porridge yourself but if not just get the supermarket own label type which are 75p to 80p a kilo. Also you gould give her unsweetened cranberry juice which has vitamins & is more tasty than water. Mine also like tomato juice.
Click to expand...

Is this the correct Protexin to use? http://www.vet-medic.com/cats-c67/hairballs-upset-stomach-prevention-and-treatment-c346/protexin-veterinary-protexin-professional-single-sachet-5g-p7450
it doesn't mention Fibreplex on any of the sachets (unless I'm looking in the wrong place, doh)
 
Tani said:
Is this recovery ie http://www.vet-medic.com/small-animals-c76/probiotics-and-supplements-c130/supreme-science-recovery-single-sachet-p7490

the same as the science one? You can buy them single sachet but with 10 of the same size, it works out alot cheaper for some bizarre reason than buying a box of them. Wanted to check it's what I should use before I buy them though.
Click to expand...

This is similar to critical care and can be used as an alternative, although critical care has higher vitamin c levels than this. I've found when I've had a pig on critical care for a while, they like this as a bit of variation.
 
Amanda1801 said:
This is similar to critical care and can be used as an alternative, although critical care has higher vitamin c levels than this. I've found when I've had a pig on critical care for a while, they like this as a bit of variation.
Click to expand...

That's brilliant, thank you! Fluffy hates CC so I want to try something else and that is worth a shot. I'm giving her extra Vit c anyway by syringe so that's not a problem. :)
 
Tani said:
@ poppy's mum - I just checked out the pellets and wanted to check if they are better than the excel (orange bag) or the PAH version I use already? She eats these already on her own so I think I'm probably best trying the Recover instead of the CC as an addition. Is that right?
Is it the Supreme Science Recover which is about £17 a box? for 10 sachets.

@ Amanda1801 Re Oats - is this normal breakfast oats that you can make into porridge that I can feed her? in their raw state, not cooked (obviously).
Click to expand...

Yes these ones : http://www.viovet.co.uk/Supreme_Rec..._find=143146&gclid=CLjxo6ORuroCFQXHtAodIEoAWA a sachet goes a long way, I make up a small amount at a time rather than a whole sachet, it saves waste. These are the powder sachets which is better than the ready made liquid ones. You may be able to buy the sachets individually from any vet just ring local ones to find some, you could then try a sachet before buying a box. Even if she is eating pellets you can't really monitor how much, so topping up her feeds is essential whilst she is poorly. I suggested the Harringtons pellets because they are much smaller than the Burgess ones & soften up more easily with a little boiled cooled water. I sit the piggy on my lap, use a 1ml syringe with the end cut off (Filed smooth) & the rubber bung removed & syringe a little into the mouth directing the syringe towards the side of her mouth not to the back of the throat (In case she aspirates it) If you face the piggy sideways on your lap & stroke her head & back firmly when doing this she will take the feed. Aim to get around 4-5 syringefuls at each feed :) Remember to wipe her mouth clean after & give a little water in a 1ml syringe without the end cut off.
 
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Thank you!

I have just ordered the fibreplex and some sachets now so hoping they arrive tomorrow :)

will let you know how she gets on. Might try the poo soup later drool haha.

xxxxx
 
Which Critical Care were you using? I've always found piggies hate the green one, but sometimes like the brown fine grind one. I also agree with the fibreplex.

Best of luck!
 
If the diarrhoea is really runny and has been going on for some time then you really should be going back to the vet to get a poo culture done and tested for antibiotic sensitivity. Last case of proper diarhooea i saw on here turned out, after culture, to be Giardia.

Apart from that withdrawing veggies and giving pellet mush/VitC/probioitic or critical care......with added fibreplex is the way to go. If your vet is wiling a bit of zantac can also help to restore proper rhythm to the gut.

x
 
Hi guys,

just came on to update you on Fluffy's progress with her new meds.

I ordered the fibreplex and sachets of Recovery and so far they have been brilliant. She was on the brown power CC before (my vets didn't have any other types to give me) but she hated it - even when I tried mixing it with her pellets and oats! Fussy litte minx she is, lol.
However, the Recovery she just can't get enough of! Going through one sachet a day at the moment so had to order some more on a next day service. She wolfs it down and won't let go of the syringe, haha. I wish I had had this for my other pigs when they were ill as it's obviously ALOT nicer than CC!

She also takes the fibreplex and so far, she has only has a few splogdges of runny poop (I'm presuming are hers anyway). I also think some of the hay I was trying on her i.e pure Timothy Hay or the Readigrass didn't agree with her belly as I think that gave her soft poops in the past. I wanted to give her a variety though and lots of natural nutrition but I will have to stick with the burgess dandelion hay as usual.

I do give her a bit of parsley or Dill (she loves the latter) when the others are being fed their veg so she doesn't feel left out (and she hasn't had any poops problems after giving her these) and also some crushed vitamin C tablet to make up for the loss of it in her veg. She's also still on pro biotics but I have just ordered some Bio Lapis today.

Any idea how long I should keep her veg free for? ie how long does it take her gut to recover?
x
 
Great news! You are doing a brilliant job! It is great that she has a good appetite; that takes a lot of worry off you!

How long you have to go on depends on when she can get back to normal firm poos. That can unfortunately take a while and even longer after until the guts stop being a bit iffy, especially when you slowly introduce veg again after her poos have firmed up again. :(

Herbs are great for minerals that she's been losing through the diarrhea, but don't give too much. Fresh coriander is the mildest of them all and the only one that you can feed on a daily basis in the long term (1 sprig per piggy).
 
Ok, no problem. I knew that you can't give them alot of parsley and weirdly she has gone off that, but I will try her on Coriander again (urgh, the smell of it makes me feel so sick, haha).

Her poops now are generally perfect (?!?!) but it doesn't take much to make them slushy again.
 
Just keep her on the dry food until they have stabilised. You are going in the right direction. Being impatient now will cost you dearly if you get a relapse.#
 
So just to update you all....

Fluffy's poops stabilised and she is still on Recovery because she isn't gaining any weight still. If we stop for a day then she loses weight really quickly, even though she is eating hay etc. Decided to book an apt with Hannah at the vets in Shifnal who was recommended on here (and whom we had no idea about in previous searches for a local piggy specialist!).

She had Fluffy's history in terms of recent meds she has been on but after checking her, confirmed my original thought that she had an ovarian cyst (I thought she had a painful lump when I first took her into my local vets but they didn't even bother to scan that and said they couldn't feel anything). She gave her a hormone shot to hopefully stop the production of hormones and hopefully shrink/stop the cyst. She also said that it would account for weight loss and the lice because the cysts was absorbing the nutrients and her hormones were all over the place causing her to be run down = lice. Sigh.

So now we will keep feeding her (oh and she has started back on the fresh food in small doses and so far her guts are fine :) - until the injection kicks in in about 7-10 days. Fingers crossed!

We also took in our little Vlad who had a UTI/possible stones. I couldn't feel anything unlike our other pigs who previously had stones so wanted to rule out infection first. He was doing all the squeeking/peeing blood but after trying a combo of metacam, baytril & pure cranberry juice and it still not clearing up, she put him on a dose of 4 weekly injections to help re-line the bladder? (i think it is). Hopefully that will clear up for him soon but she couldn't feel any stones either (phew).
 
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