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Does Anyone Know If Cct And Bar Are Still In Existence?

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Toni D

Toni D

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When I had lots of rescue piggies I was a member of CCT (Cambridge Cavy Trust) and had a Piggy Teeth tutorial run by BAR (British Association of Rodentologists). I have found both websites but there is no evidence that they are both still in existence. I sent an email to BAR but got a standard reply which may still be set up. I asked specific questions but didn't get a specific response.

Does anyone know if these two are still up and running?
 
I am not sure as I am fairly certain Vedra was going to retire soon. Have you tried sending her a text message?
 
I thought I would try the email to BAR first as Vedra was always so busy and it is years since I last had piggies and was a member of CCT. It sort of feels intrusive to text out of the blue. That's why I was hoping someone on here would know. . . .
 
They are, unfortunately! Having seen the complete mess that was made of a guinea pigs teeth, who came to stay at TEAS recently, after failing to make any progress following a dental at the CCT, I really wish Vedra would retire. The teeth had been clipped (not recommended) and many were broken and the mouth was being cut to shreds by sharp edges. After treatment by the vet we use at TEAS, he was eating after the first dental and has continued to make excellent progress.
 
I hold Vedra and Rodentologists in high regard and I cannot imagine what the history is behind the pig that was brought into your care. I did a course on G.Pigs teeth problems but it is a long time ago and I can only recall the different rasps (files) used to file back teeth. We're were not taught to clip teeth? We seem to have had very different experiences of CCT and to be honest I am a bit shocked to hear of your experience. :(
 
I realise that you are very respected in your work and I would have no hesitation coming to you. I don't doubt your word - I am just shocked to hear what you say.
 
Toni D said:
I realise that you are very respected in your work and I would have no hesitation coming to you. I don't doubt your word - I am just shocked to hear what you say.
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I was a little unfair in how I posted, but I have had a few piggies arrive here in rather a bad way after having dental treatment at the CCT. In saying that I have piggies arrive here in as bad a state or much worse state after having dental treatment from a qualified vet.

I used to go to Vedra myself, many years ago, and without doubt, back then, she had more knowledge than most vets. The reason we have such great success with the dental piggies here at TEAS is because our vet, Simon Maddock, does conscious dentals, using equipment that was devised by the CCT. I am not anti-Vedra, but veterinary knowledge has progressed and sadly, Vedra has got much older. She certainly didn't look her age when I last saw her, which was probably in 2006, but she is much older than many people realise. Sadly, as we age we aren't as proficient at things as we were in our younger years.
 
  1. I was at the CCT in November doing my RHA course, and am now a part of the BAR. They are very much still going! I've never met Vedra, but I'm sure she has helped many, many more pigs than hindered at the CCT, and its not a representation of the BAR as a whole :) I really recommend the course, it was very informative! I've only heard good things about Vedra, although everyone is allowed their bad days, right? :)
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
I was a little unfair in how I posted, but I have had a few piggies arrive here in rather a bad way after having dental treatment at the CCT. In saying that I have piggies arrive here in as bad a state or much worse state after having dental treatment from a qualified vet.

I used to go to Vedra myself, many years ago, and without doubt, back then, she had more knowledge than most vets. The reason we have such great success with the dental piggies here at TEAS is because our vet, Simon Maddock, does conscious dentals, using equipment that was devised by the CCT. I am not anti-Vedra, but veterinary knowledge has progressed and sadly, Vedra has got much older. She certainly didn't look her age when I last saw her, which was probably in 2006, but she is much older than many people realise. Sadly, as we age we aren't as proficient at things as we were in our younger years.
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I think Vedra was a pioneer in many areas of G.Pig care and if veterinary knowledge has progressed then I thank the Lord. When I first had G.Pigs (mid/late1990's) piggies were euthanized by an injection straight into the heart with no gas beforehand, ovarian cysts were always removed by operation none were reduced by syringe (remember anaesthesia was also very dangerous back then) and every dental was done under anaesthetic too. If one tooth broke the vet would clip the other to make it even despite the fact that the G.Pig had no means of gathering food. I had a case where a G.Pig passed a bladder stone and the vet wanted to operate to remove a fatty lump stating it was a dangerous tumour causing the bleeding (a story I have posted on here about Rusty). My memory has suffered due to illness but back then I learned so much from Vedra and had many 'discussions' with vets over the best treatment of my piggies due to knowledge learned through CCT - some were very grateful and learned a thing or two. It is absolutely ridiculous that people have to travel miles to find a vet dealing in exotics for treatment for such a common household pet. If it is now time for Vedra to step down due to age related incompetencies (and I accept this could be a likely scenario due to my own illness and age related incompetencies) then it is a real shame but she must be remembered for the great work she has done over the years and hopefully her work will live on in BAR and through competent Rodentologists.

I understand the nature of your response to my post as it must be very frustrating/upsetting for you to have to clear up after bad dental work and to see the suffering it causes. I am wondering if you think that BAR or even RCVS need to update their teachings on G.Pig/small animal dental work? If so, then perhaps something could be arranged for your knowledge to be shared/passed on? Everyone is in it for the benefit of the piggies. :)
 
<3 Simon'n'Joe said:
  1. I was at the CCT in November doing my RHA course, and am now a part of the BAR. They are very much still going! I've never met Vedra, but I'm sure she has helped many, many more pigs than hindered at the CCT, and its not a representation of the BAR as a whole :) I really recommend the course, it was very informative! I've only heard good things about Vedra, although everyone is allowed their bad days, right? :)
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You will see from my post above that I have great admiration for Vedra's work over the years but that I also know that age or illness can affect a person's capabilities. It is great to hear that BAR and Rodentology live on (it is my understanding that Vedra was the founder). If I could be the intellectual, articulate and competent person that I used to be then I would certainly do the course, but sadly I am not. I just want the best knowledge to hand for the future health care of my piggies as I know that most vets are like your local GP (General Practitioner not Guinea Pig lol) and are not experts in G.Pig health. I note there is a book available by Vedra at around £44 - do you recommend it?
 
Toni D said:
I think Vedra was a pioneer in many areas of G.Pig care and if veterinary knowledge has progressed then I thank the Lord. When I first had G.Pigs (mid/late1990's) piggies were euthanized by an injection straight into the heart with no gas beforehand, ovarian cysts were always removed by operation none were reduced by syringe (remember anaesthesia was also very dangerous back then) and every dental was done under anaesthetic too. If one tooth broke the vet would clip the other to make it even despite the fact that the G.Pig had no means of gathering food. I had a case where a G.Pig passed a bladder stone and the vet wanted to operate to remove a fatty lump stating it was a dangerous tumour causing the bleeding (a story I have posted on here about Rusty). My memory has suffered due to illness but back then I learned so much from Vedra and had many 'discussions' with vets over the best treatment of my piggies due to knowledge learned through CCT - some were very grateful and learned a thing or two. It is absolutely ridiculous that people have to travel miles to find a vet dealing in exotics for treatment for such a common household pet. If it is now time for Vedra to step down due to age related incompetencies (and I accept this could be a likely scenario due to my own illness and age related incompetencies) then it is a real shame but she must be remembered for the great work she has done over the years and hopefully her work will live on in BAR and through competent Rodentologists.

I understand the nature of your response to my post as it must be very frustrating/upsetting for you to have to clear up after bad dental work and to see the suffering it causes. I am wondering if you think that BAR or even RCVS need to update their teachings on G.Pig/small animal dental work? If so, then perhaps something could be arranged for your knowledge to be shared/passed on? Everyone is in it for the benefit of the piggies. :)
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The reason I stopped going to Vedra was after many trips to her with my guinea pig, Badger, who kept developing what she, and the vet she used, assured me were just fatty lumps. Some of the lumps were removed by the vet she used and I asked that they be sent away for histology. I was told this wasn't necessary, despite Badger developing more and more. The suturing of the incisions was very poor and Badger developed infection in the wounds and the suturing started to break down. Due to Badger being quite poorly at this stage, I had to go back to my non guinea pig savvy vets who were nearer to home, to get antibiotics. They were very annoyed with me for going to the CCT. but I pointed out that I had no choice as they didn't have very much guinea pig knowledge. At this point the vet uttered the words that prompted me to find a vet who had knowledge and cared........'the reason we don't see many guinea pigs is because people don't take guinea pigs to vets, as they are seen as throw away pets'. I couldn't believe what I was hearing and pointed out to him how many members we had on this forum and that they certainly weren't viewed as 'throw away pets' by many very dedicated and devoted owners. At this point I felt the CCT were not taking my concerns about Badger seriously, and the local vets didn't value his life one bit. The lady who ran our local guinea pig rescue told me about the vet she used, who wasn't local but she said she preferred to travel to Northampton to get excellent treatment for the guinea pigs in her rescue. I didn't see how this vet could that much better but decided to give him a go. On the 3rd of January 2007 my daughter and I made the journey to Northampton with Badger, who again had another huge lump. Meeting Simon Maddock was eye opening. He was everything I had ever wished for in a vet. He was very knowledgeable, caring and listened intently to all I had to say. Badger was admitted for surgery and Simon removed a very sinister looking lump, which was sent away for histology. The results of the histology were devastating. Badger had cancer! Badger still had good life quality and lived another couple of months before being put to sleep just a week before his 2nd birthday after the cancer spread to his lungs. I so wish I had found Simon years earlier as in my early days of guinea pig keeping, I had come to the conclusion that an ill guinea pig was a dead guinea pig. Badger has left behind a huge legacy, as he prompted me to go to Simon, who is now seeing guinea pigs from all over the UK, particularly those with dental issues, and without Simon The Excellent Adventure Sanctuary would not exist! My pet care business is also named after Badger 'Little Badger's Pet Care'.
 
In my post on here about Rusty I recall when she had passed a stone so I took her to the vets for antibiotics. He felt her fatty lump and quoted a few hundred pounds for surgery which he said needed to be carried out immediately or she would die. I told him I would seek the view of a Rodentologist and he said 'that I was going against his professional experience and on my head be it!' (or something similar). The Rodentoligist opined it to be a fatty lump and treated her for the passed stone. The vet rang me a week or two later sarcastically asking how Rusty was. He was very surprised to hear she was fine thank you. She lived a long and happy life thereafter and the vet then arranged for one of his assistants liaise with CCT - from that point on they gave piggies a whiff of gas before euthanasia.

I think your experience with Badger was appalling and I can't believe a decision wasn't made to send them away for testing. I am sorry for your loss which was quite obviously devastating.

I am currently taking a case against a local vet who carried out a routine dental (scale and polish) on my elderly cat but failed to notice that my cat had severe heart disease despite, it transpired, fluid in his chest cavity and an erratic heart beat due to undiagnosed hypertension. Half of his heart was dead. It cost me £1,800 in emergency care and follow up care to see if his heart condition could be managed to give him a quality of life for his remaining days but the medication made no difference. I accept that my cat was dying anyway (I didn't know that at the time as he was acting as normal; he was old so took life at a very chilled pace) BUT if the vet had done proper checks/taken more care then I would not have put him through the procedure. My cat suffered in the following days and yet my concerned calls to the vets were dismissed. My cat went to heaven prematurely (my decision to end his suffering) but 'hey' his teeth were sparkling and his breath fresh. I jest but this happened last June and I am crying as I type this. The case is ongoing and all I want is lessons to be learned from it.

Vets make mistakes - some vets it seems are quite incompetent.
 
I qualified as a Rodent Health Advisor after taking a course run by Vedra a few years ago. At the time I had no idea that she was considered to be controversial within the guinea pig community. I had some bad experiences with local vet who saw few guinea pigs and had limited knowledge and experience, so the course was invaluable for me. I was encouraged to set myself up as a Rodentologist and treat piggies from my home, including dentals. I was taught to use dental rongeurs to clip the incisors and molars and also to use a rasp. I was never very comfortable or confident doing dental work, especially molars, and having met Simon and seen him at work, I would never think about clipping teeth now, and take my pigs to my trusted vet. I can see I'd be doing more harm than good without the proper equipment and experience.

Since I took the course I have learned an awful lot more about guinea pig health and found myself a wonderful guinea savvy vet who is happy to discuss treatments and respects my knowledge. We work as a team. I have to say that Vedra is very knowledgable, but I don't feel like she has moved with the times regarding the level of knowledge interested vets have about guinea pigs. She was very anti-vet when I saw her, and to be fair to her, when she founded the CCT, the situation was much different and vets in general were untrained and inexperienced in rodent health. The work she has done has undoubtably been the impetus for the improvement in vet care for rodents. She has a very bad relationship with the RCVS, which hasn't helped the cause either.

I don't have any contact with the CCT or BAR any more and I have moved away from some of the practices they recommend (e.g. dentals, "worming") as I have learned more and reached my own conclusions about them.

I think when Vedra does retire there may be opportunities for reconciliation between BAR and RCVS, which would benefit everyone, especially the piggies.
 
I had so many bad experiences in the past with vets/my piggies and at that time Rodentologists (and telephone advice from Vedra) were a godsend. I did know that Vedra was at loggerheads with the RCVS but I felt that some good things were coming from her determination. It seems that some bad things did too and I am quite sad about that (but bad things come from inexperienced vets too). I personally never did any dental work but I went on the dental course to accompany the person who ran the rescue that I was linked to (and because I was interested). It was a big help learning to wrap my piggies so that the vet could take a good look at their teeth and it makes it easier to syringe feed the naughty ones (not laid on their backs of course).

I really do hope there is a reconciliation between BAR and RCVS as I would like there to be more experienced help widely available.
 
Elwickcavies said:
I qualified as a Rodent Health Advisor after taking a course run by Vedra a few years ago. At the time I had no idea that she was considered to be controversial within the guinea pig community. I had some bad experiences with local vet who saw few guinea pigs and had limited knowledge and experience, so the course was invaluable for me. I was encouraged to set myself up as a Rodentologist and treat piggies from my home, including dentals. I was taught to use dental rongeurs to clip the incisors and molars and also to use a rasp. I was never very comfortable or confident doing dental work, especially molars, and having met Simon and seen him at work, I would never think about clipping teeth now, and take my pigs to my trusted vet. I can see I'd be doing more harm than good without the proper equipment and experience.

Since I took the course I have learned an awful lot more about guinea pig health and found myself a wonderful guinea savvy vet who is happy to discuss treatments and respects my knowledge. We work as a team. I have to say that Vedra is very knowledgable, but I don't feel like she has moved with the times regarding the level of knowledge interested vets have about guinea pigs. She was very anti-vet when I saw her, and to be fair to her, when she founded the CCT, the situation was much different and vets in general were untrained and inexperienced in rodent health. The work she has done has undoubtably been the impetus for the improvement in vet care for rodents. She has a very bad relationship with the RCVS, which hasn't helped the cause either.

I don't have any contact with the CCT or BAR any more and I have moved away from some of the practices they recommend (e.g. dentals, "worming") as I have learned more and reached my own conclusions about them.

I think when Vedra does retire there may be opportunities for reconciliation between BAR and RCVS, which would benefit everyone, especially the piggies.
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This is exactly my experience! I too turned to the CCT because of difficulty accessing adequate veterinary care when l first started keeping piggies. I don't regret doing the course as l learnt a lot, but l found the anti vet dogma difficult as l believe that we should work with our vets not try and manage without them.
I too did the dental course but no longer practice since l found out about the damage that tooth clipping can cause. I resigned from CCT and BAR and despite repeated requests to Vedra she still passes my number onto people in my area looking for a rodentologist. I have to explain that l am simply an experienced guinea pig owner and although am happy to give advice l always encourage them to visit a guinea pig friendly vet.
 
I never got an anti-vet vibe at all during the course :) I agree that RHAs/Rodentologists should work with vets together though, we could learn lots from each other! When I went on the course in November however, I wasn't taught by Vedra :)
 
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