Guinea pig having body spasms?

[Sodapops]

Hi there,
wondered if someone could help.

I had my eldest guinea pig Homer out for a cuddle about an hour ago - he appeared fine in himself - but he's the sort of guinea pig that cannot tolkerate very much lap time so we keep his cuddles to 5-10mins at the most.

I took him back to his cage armed with some parsley for him and his son. His son Lb was at the bottom of the cage and Homer was uyp top (they have a sort of mezzanine floor where their food and hay is). I placed a handful of parsley down for each and watched them for a few mins.

After about 5mins and just as i was about to walk away, Homer started thrashing around - the only way i can describe it is like when they get startled and try to run away real fast - only difference was is that it looked like homers back end was twisted and he couldn't get on to his feet. I didn't try to pick him up but called his name a few times to try and re-assure him. However it was quite appearent within the first 3 seconds that he wasn't startled but it looked like he was having some sort of fit.

He sort of fell (or should i say rolled) down his ladder and for 2-3 seconds he was streched out sort of twitching. He must have regained control of his back legs and he ran to the back of his cage.

I coaxed him from the back of his cage slowly - just to check he could walk ok - eventually he came and i lifted him out and put him on the floor to observe his bahavior and if indeed this would happen again.

Over the course of the last hour he's had 3-4 more episodes - however they haven't been nearly as bad as the first - more of like his body going in to spasm - these episodes have lasted about 2-5 seconds.

I'm really really worried for him as he's only 11months old. He's registered with the PDSA - however ive been trying to contact them for over an hour and it's consistently engaged.

I guess my questions are:

- what's happening to him
- should i forget about keep ringing them and just rush him to the PDSA

He has eaten some hay and in between the few episodes he's had he appears fine.

 

[4piggiepigs]

I would get him checked out straight away if it happened to one of my piggle's

 

[doglovinpiggylover]

Think i would be straight round to the vets too hon, good luck, poor thing x

 

[Wiebke]

I would rush him in as an emergency - after all, you are registered with them.

 

[Sodapops]

Thank for the advice guys - i managed to get him in as an emergency app. at 3:15pm - have only just got back.

Basically they've fully checked him over and cannot see anything obvious, therefore they think it may be a trapped nerve in his back and they feel this may settle/go away within the next 72hrs.

They've said we are to minimize lap time and let him get plenty of rest - he's eating/drinking fine and pottering around as normal between episodes.

What they did find odd was that the first episode was so very severe - but everyone since then has been what i would call mild.

I'm obviously very shaken and just hope he's ok, but i can't help but think it's something more serious. Has anyone ever heard of this before? Can guinea pigs suffer from fits/epilepsy? Each episode is only lasting seconds - but there's no warning signs he's going to have one so i cannot take a short video of it to show you.

The last few episodes he's had are more like his front part of his body just lunges to the ground (like he's falling over) and he sort of twitches when its happening. I'm really upset and so scared something's going to happen to him.

 

[Wiebke]

You could try to contact Laura on here:
http://www.guineapighelpline.com/

Guinea pigs can have epileptic fits. But I have no expereince with your symptoms, so I'm not going to anthing that could be wrong.

 

[Laura-CCC4]

Hi Joanne, is it ok if I help you through here? Was going to call but since I'm here now, and you are online, will see what I can do.

I don't have personal experience of a pig suffering a seizure. I've not heard of a pig sufferng epilepsy but seizures can happen, and there are a number of causes I can suggest.

First of all, I am posting this GRAPHIC video of a piggie seizure. If you're sensitive, don't watch, but for educational purposes and to determine if this is the kind of thing your pig is suffering, I have chosen to link to it:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxVVZGEnmnQ[/ame]

Main causes of seizures:

- Endoparasitic (internal parasitic) infection
- Fungal infection
- Ear mites
- Ear infection

With so many potential causes, I have some questions for you (are you ready?!):

- Is his skin healthy - clean, clear, normal colour, no scabs or pimples or hair loss?
- Has he been dosed with ivermectin (treated for mites) at all?
- Has he ever been dosed with Panacur ("wormed" )?
- Has he been bathed recently (if so, in what shampoo)?
- Will he let you touch his ears without too much fuss?
- Has he been eating normally lately?
- Can you tell if his ears are dirty or waxy inside, any "sugary" debris around the ear?
- Any crustiness around the eyes lately?

I will keep thinking for you. If none of these bring any leads, there is a chance it is a neurological condition, but it's worth exploring these other avenues first.

 

[Sodapops]

Hi Laura, thanks for the reply.

I have watched the video you provided and i have to say that the first episode Homer had was possibly more graphic and intense than that shown in the video - at 19seconds in the video the guinea pig tries to get up on to their feet - this was the exact same with Homer but his lasted for 15-20 seconds - it was very much as if his body was twisted in the middle and he couldn't get back on to his back feet.

Only way i can really explain the first episode was if you were to place a guinea pig (or any animal) on their back, the panic they have trying to get back on their feet was the exact same with homer.

The episodes since then are as if someone is pushing him over - either his back end falls to the floor or his front end - these only last 2-5seconds and he walks away as if nothing happened.

In reply to your questions:

Is his skin healthy - clean, clear, normal colour, no scabs or pimples or hair loss?
Ive had 2 guinea pigs with a fungal infection - and Homers skin/fur is in tact and looks very healthy.

Has he been dosed with ivermectin (treated for mites) at all?
No, ive never treated him with ivermectin - i bathe all my guinea pigs in Johnsons insecticidal shampoo

Has he ever been dosed with Panacur ("wormed" )?
No, i didn't realise guinea pigs needed worming.

Has he been bathed recently (if so, in what shampoo)?
Homer is about 11 and a half months old and we've had him since he was around 10wks old, in this time he probably had a bath around 3-4 times - because he's a short haired piggie he doesn't need it as often as my two long-haired boys. His most recent bath was about 2-3 months ago

Will he let you touch his ears without too much fuss?
Yes he'll let you touch his ears and give him kisses all day long

Has he been eating normally lately?
Yes, i refill Homer's and LB's hay rack (a bent C&C grid) every day, their nuggets get refilled as and when needed and they always finish their bowl of veg.

Can you tell if his ears are dirty or waxy inside, any "sugary" debris around the ear?
Nope his ears look fine.

Any crustiness around the eyes lately?
Nope.

 

[Laura-CCC4]

Thanks for answering the questions, it does seem to apparently rule out some conditions, for me I would say ear infection could be seen as the least likely at this point. This could change, symptoms may still be lurking beneath the surface as it were, but you've provided a lot of info so far.

Just another two questions for you:

- Has Homer lost any weight recently, whether it's a sudden or a slow and steady loss?
- How long ago did you have the fungal pigs?

I have to say, and I am sticking my neck on the line here, but at this moment I think I am leaning most towards fungal as the strongest possible cause of his seizures. Even though there is no sign of an external fungal problem, systemic mycosis can be a problem without external symptoms, as I found earlier this year:
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=48702

Second most likely cause would, in my mind, be an endoparasitic issue, so a course of Ivomec and Panacur would be steps to consider.

I would recommend contacting Vedra of the Cambridge Cavy Trust if you are a member, and discussing his symptoms and my suggestions with her. It is a hard one to call, but the seizures are obviously not normal, and I wouldn't get in this deep with your pig if I were not sure of my advice, based on my medical experiences, learnings and studies.

 

[Sodapops]

Hi Laura, thanks for the speedy response,

Has Homer lost any weight recently, whether it's a sudden or a slow and steady loss?
Homer currently weighs 1290G

How long ago did you have the fungal pigs?
The most recent was back in May - my youngest piggie elvis was given ivermectin by the vets and Surolan to clear the infection - just as his was clearing and his fur growing back his cage mate shadow has a small amount near his eye - this was cleared with (and both pigs bathed in) Nizorol shampoo.

I'm really not sure what i should/shouldn't be doing and i'm so worried. Like i said, other than these episodes he seems fine in himself and is acting very normal - so nothing i could say was out of the ordinary with him

 

[Laura-CCC4]

Thanks for answering, given your replies to those questions, I still stand by my previous post and I think, unless further symptoms develop, there is little else I can add.

I hope the seizures ease off, do keep us updated if you can.

 

[Pebble]

There is another reason for seizures (or strokes) which do not quite ressemble the video but do result in a piggie losing control of their back end and twisting/thrashing being unable to get onto all four feet....dragging their hindquarters and possiby turning/circling, especially if hind half is slightly paraysed/incapacitated. Something else you ight notice is nystagmus - eyes rolling upwards/downwards or horiztonally ...make a note of which way the eyes move as this is important for diagnosis.....

The reason is deprivation of oxygen to the brain -

....most often caused by e.g. heart condition/stroke/fluid on the lungs/brain tumour

My Grommie suffered this a few months back....due to build up of fluid in the lungs resulting in lack of oxygen supply to the brain....

Keep the piggie quiet, undisturbed, free from stress in a dark place with plenty of hay. If more than a couple of seizures happen - time to go to a cavy savvy vet as an emergency (N.B. this must be with as little stress to piggie as possible ...if it would be too much then wait until the following day....)...there is a medication that can be given at this stage, I can;t remember which...will post back if I can find it on guinea lynx......but it can sometimes work. However the bottom line is to try to identify and alleviate the REAL cause rather than treat the effects.....

HTH
x

 

[lily 74]

Hi,
I was just going to start a thread about this and I saw your post, my sow has started doing that.

She looks contorted and she keeps twisting her spine and head round she is 4 months old and has only started doing it since I treated her with ivermectin for mites? she doesn't fall over though

Think it has a connection...

She is eating/drinking well and is okay apart from this

 

[Pebble]

Hi,
I was just going to start a thread about this and I saw your post, my sow has started doing that.

She looks contorted and she keeps twisting her spine and head round she is 4 months old and has only started doing it since I treated her with ivermectin for mites? she doesn't fall over though

Think it has a connection...

She is eating/drinking well and is okay apart from this

It would be helpful if you could start a new thread for your piggie to avoid confusion on this one....and cut and paste my answer into it

It does sound as though she has mild toticollis (wry neck) which is different but can be confused with the symptoms of stroke. Torticollis is basically head tilted to one side (note which side to be able to tell the vet) but can result in piggie turning in circles (again the direction is important for diagnosis) and being unable to stand upright.

Ear mites are ofen the cause.....and can be a real problem to get rid of as sometimes they can;t just be treated with topical ivermectin...she might need injections from a vet after they have inspected the ear and confirmed the presence of mites. She may also need ear drops to dislodge wax so the ivermectin can work properly as ear mites are difficult to get rid of if the ear is gunged up.

HTH
x

 

[Pebble]

Forgot to say Lily - you need to see a vet/get injections pronto - torticollis from ear mites means it's pretty far advanced and if treatment isn;t got ASAP, permanent damage can result.....it's also excrutatiingly painful for the piggie and a steroid injection to relieve the immediate inflammatory/itchy symptoms may help.

Hopefully you can get to see a cavy savvy vet tomorrow
x

 

[Sheppey_GuineaPigs]

Hi

Not going to be able to add to much that has been said but convultions and fitting is one of the symptoms of a very bad systemic mite infestation.

You do need to see a very piggy savy vet to get the right treatment.

Regards

SGP