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Head Tilt - help!

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shiny

shiny

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My approx 11 week old guinea pig Pip who is a bit runty seems to be developing a head tilt tonight.

He has always been reluctant to be touched on his back & sometimes does a weird kind of half popcorn & lies on his side when you stroke his back. Tonight he seems to be tilting his head too. It seems to come & go but is quite pronounced just now.

I have read that this can indicate an ear infection. I can take him to the vets tomorrow but it would be the regular small animal vet rather than the exotics vet as I can't get there (quite far away). Pip was health checked by the exotics vet a week ago & said to be a bit runty & skinny but ok.

I am also concerned that it could be a deeper neurological issue but I guess I would like to rule out ear infection first.

Which antibiotic is most effective for ear infections? Vets here seem to give Baytril most often but I don't know if this is best for ears. I am also worried about arthroplasty & stunted growth in such a young animal with Baytril.

Can anybody offer any advice on this?

Many thanks,

shiny
 
Don't panic! My 2 year old boar developed one of these suddenly last summer, rushed him to the vet who said he probably would need to be put down as it could be a brain tumour etc Etc, I asked for anti biotics in case it was an ear issue altho she said they looked fine. Took him home, he ran off perfectly. It then happened again one evening 3 months later, literally within half hour it had gone again. So far, it has not reoccurred.

No idea why it happened but pretty glad I didn't give up on him! It may be an ear issue so anti biotics may be an idea. My boy appeared paralysed down one side almost with it the first time, does yours just have head tilt? This is not hugely uncommon so try not to panic just yet x
 
I lost a pig to an ear infection as a new owner. In his case, the ear was very gunky inside -- not something I could see, but easily spotted by my normal non-exotics vet with one of those little lights. This was spotted during a routine check-up, although he had previously had a tendency toward a weird, head-tilting spinning in his cage. In hindsight he had also been very irritable when touched, even biting viciously and drawing blood. The vet initially prescribed him ear drops and no oral meds at all. Unfortunately it turned out to be a very resistant strain, and three weeks later he took a sudden turn. They then prescribed Baytril but in all fairness the eardrum had ruptured, the infection had spread to the inner ear, and I think it was simply too late.

I'm not out to scare you, as my pig has a particularly nasty bug, but I would suggest that if yours is diagnosed with an ear infection, you return to the vet after a few days or a week of treatment to make sure whatever as been prescribed is working, even if he SEEMS better. It's very difficult to get a look right down their ear canal yourself, and I assumed my pig's drops were curing him when they weren't, at all. Guinea pigs hide their illnesses until the last possible minute, and by the time my pig looked sick, he was VERY sick.

With regards to Baytril, it is the only antibiotic specifically licensed in the UK for guinea pigs, and in my experience most non-exotics vet will insist on trying it before any other treatment option. If it doesn't work, they then move on through their treatment 'cascade' to safe but non-specifically-licensed meds. An exotics vet may go so far as to send an ear gunk sample (if found) to the lab in order to determine exactly what medication is likely to work on whatever strain of bug the pig has, but this is not something a lot of 'normal' vets will do unless pressured, and in any case it could take awhile. I know Baytril is somewhat controversial, but it seems to be very commonly prescribed for this sort of infection and it's likely to be a week or less course, so I would provide your pig with a probiotic to counter ill tummy effects and not worry too much about it otherwise.

HTH
 
Thanks for your replies. Sorry you had such a bad experience SpinningNickel :(,

I'm just witing for the vets to open so I can call for an appointment. I will definitely ask for antibiotics & may well treat for mites too. I had specifically asked my exotics vet about mites when Pip had a health check a week ago but he said he couldn't see any sign of mites. I didn't think you could really see much sign of mites anyway apart from if it was so bad they scratched holes in themselves. We had a look in his ears last night best we could & they look clean & all good. Hopefully the vet will be able to get a proper look.

I always use Bio-Lapis probiotic if we have antibiotics in pigs & have some in the cupboard already. I guess we will end up with Baytril, I had a very young pig on it for 3 weeks in the autumn due to serious surgery & complications & at 6 months old his growth is definitely stunted from one reason or another so I am a bit suspicious the Baytril may have had a hand in that. The main thing is to try to get Pip sorted out & well. He is so teeny & we have just got his weight up over 400g with a bit of hard work so we will do all we can for him :).
 
I took Pip to the vets but of course he had stopped doing the head tilt by then & has hardly done it at all since Thursday night. The vet checked over his ears etc & couldn't find anything. We have got him on a 7 day course of Baytril (0.3ml once a day) & *** then take him back next week to see how he's doing. I'm also giving him Bio-Lapis as a probiotic which he seems to love :).

He is still eating ok & seems perfectly happy. If the head tilt persists after the antibiotic course then we will have to consider getting an x-ray done to see if it is ear probs or anything else.
 
shiny said:
I took Pip to the vets but of course he had stopped doing the head tilt by then & has hardly done it at all since Thursday night. The vet checked over his ears etc & couldn't find anything. We have got him on a 7 day course of Baytril (0.3ml once a day) & *** then take him back next week to see how he's doing. I'm also giving him Bio-Lapis as a probiotic which he seems to love :).

He is still eating ok & seems perfectly happy. If the head tilt persists after the antibiotic course then we will have to consider getting an x-ray done to see if it is ear probs or anything else.
Click to expand...

Hi,

My Ruby had head tilt one morning when I went through to feed her and she was in pain as well. She had suffered recurrent mites and soon as the vets opened they gave her baytril. Her mites had apparently affected her ear. By the afternoon her tilt had gone as the antibiotics had started to work. So mites might have been the underlying cause.

It is horrible to see them in pain like it and I was in tears myself seeing her like it. I am sure your guinea will be ok after baytril.


S
 
How strange, hopefully whatever it is the Baytril will sort it without any ill effects. Machu & Yoshi sending healing wheeks to Pip!
 
Pip is now somewhere around 4 months old & weighing in at 600g. He was very skinny & very much the runt when we got him (31st December 2012). He was only 300g at that time.

About a month ago, he had the head tilt I wrote about above & was given a week of Baytril. He only did the head tilt that night & very slightly the next day.

However, 3 weeks ago when we had all had colds at home, we noticed Pip had a really wet, runny nose & was sneezing & wiping his paw across his nose. His nose also looked a bit crusty around it with brown bits. One of our other pigs Bertie (not cagemates) also sounded a bit snuffly when eating so I took them both to the vets & was given another 2 weeks of Baytril for them each (0.4ml once a day for Pip at 550g & 0.6ml for Bertie at 800g).

Bertie is now fine & we finished his antibiotics. Pip doesn't have a wet nose any more & only the occasional sneeze, he doesn't seem to be wiping his nose but there is still crusty brown stuff on it, not all the time but it comes & goes.

Pip is now on his 3rd week of Baytril & I am not really keen on him having more as it's not ideal in young animals in the longer-term. I am taking him back to the vets tomorrow but our more cavy-savy vet is off ill & I will be seeing another vet who I don't know their experience. I am wondering if the head tilt was due to an infection but it is now moved to URI, the vet thought they are normally caused by different bugs but it could be the case.

Personally, I am thinking a change of antibiotic would be a good idea as I am not convinced the Baytril is really doing anything. Pip hates taking it too & it is becoming a real fight which is a bit sad. Does anybody have experience of another antibiotic being effective for URIs? I know Septrin is given off licence (UK) but not sure if this is used for URI or UTI more so.

Through all this Pip seems happy & is gaining weight. I am giving Bio-Lapis as a probiotic which he loves. I really want to get him better so I can do the introduction to his new cagemate Peanut.

Any advice please?
 
Hi Shiny,

My Fred last year developed an inner ear infection, I returned home early from a night out and decided to give the piggy a treat I had a small piece of carrot. Fred didn't come out, I immediately looked in to see Fred's head flickering from side to side junking viciously. I moved his house and he continually ran round in a a circle, I brought him out the cage and he immediately flopped onto his ear. I phoned the vet, who asked me to look in his eye's Fred was still but his eye's where flickering from side to side, he was clearly very distressed, we went to the E-vet, and in the consultation room I let Fred run around the floor, by this point he had a very slight head tilt. He was prescribed Baytril, given a steriod injection and sent home with some steriod tablet's which only to be given if advised to do so by the vet.

Fred recovered remarkably and was never left with a head tilt. Although a lot of people think badly of Baytril, I personally find it can be a very good antibiotic at times.

It's hard to know if the ear injection and URI are linked or if it's just a coincidence, I wish I could give more advice via URI in guinea pig's - however it's not something I've had to deal with thankfully.

I can understand why your worried about the AB's in such a young pig but sometimes there just isn't another option :(, I hope your little one get's well soon. x
 
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Thanks flintstones :)

Pip is such a lovely boy, I just keep giving him cuddles & telling him to get well.

Just to show the difference from when we got him on New Year's Eve to now, here are 2 pics before & after...

20130103_202103_zps5cd266d1.jpg


P1060504_zpse56a5173.jpg


In that first picture he was so painfully thin :( but he has been doing well, the second pic was taken this morning :)
 
Poor Pip. I really hope he gets better soon. x

Just seen the pics. What a lovely, cute boy. x)
 
I've got two boys who are currently recovering from Bordetella, having come back from being at death's door last week. They have been on Marbocyl - initially injected, but now on half a 5mg tablet a day. Again, non licensed, but for stubborn infections and more serious issues, Baytril and Septrin are on par with giving water. :)
 
What a fab transformation in Pip, well done for your wonderful care to this gorgeous guy x)
Don't really have much advice for head tilt piggies as not experienced enough but I do have a little girl (DIVA) who suffered from this before she came to me from rescue.
Think she had abx and Panacur - her head still tilts a wee bit when she 'star gazes' (occasionally sits staring into space almost trance like) but other than that, she's a perfectly healthy little minx who rules a herd with her bossy nature :(|)
Is your vet an exotic ? It could be a neurological issue but piggies usually run around in circles so may not be the case with Pip.
There are some great people on here who may be able to help so keep bumping your thread up.
Hugs to Pip...beautiful piggy x>>
 
MintyAndGarry said:
I've got two boys who are currently recovering from Bordetella, having come back from being at death's door last week. They have been on Marbocyl - initially injected, but now on half a 5mg tablet a day. Again, non licensed, but for stubborn infections and more serious issues, Baytril and Septrin are on par with giving water. :)
Click to expand...

We had brilliant results with Marbocyl too with our girl :) A URI that Baytril didn't touch turned into pleurisy but within two weeks, she was fit as a fiddle and remains so :)
 
The head tilt has gone away now, it's this lingering URI I'm more worried about. Interesting you mention Bordetella MintyandGarry, our vet said either the head tilt (if it was ear infection) & the URI were probably Bordetella & Pasturella but I can't remember which was which. The URI one is the one that they can catch from humans. I will ask about Marbocyl at the vets tomorrow, I was thinking doxycycline which I have looked at on guinealynx - never used it though.

Pip has always been a bit funny with popcorning over sometimes & also does this when you stroke his back at times so I wouldn't be surprised if he had some long-term neurological problems, along with being so runty & not very well accepted by other guineas, this did make me wonder... If you stroke his head between his eyes he will sit kind of in a trance for about 5 seconds after you stop.

Anyway, he is our gorgeous boy x) & thanks for the nice comments about his transformation :), we are certainly fattening him up a bit. He couldn't at all get on with the Excel Sensitive pellets that our others eat, I think they were too difficult for him to eat somehow so my husband suggested we give him the Wagg Crunch we had hanging around from a while back & Pip hasn't looked back since. He loves it & it has really put some condition on him. Just shows, cheap & cheerful sometimes does the job :)
 
Right, off to vets in a bit armed with my list of safe & unsafe antibiotics. Pip's nose is still crusty after 3 weeks of Baytril so I'm going to ask for a different antibiotic - wish me luck :)

Might ask for a nose swab too - would like to know what it is we are dealing with...
 
It went ok thanks, the vet said Pip's chest sounded clear. We agreed it was not worth continuing with the Baytril. We talked about how Pip still has a runny / crusty nose & it seems to come & go a bit. She wants to take advice on the next antibiotics to try from their exotics referral vet (who I do use sometimes but they are quite a long drive away from me...). I mentioned doxycycline but she wanted to check it as doxycycline is on the guinealynx safe list but oxtetracycline is on the dangerous list & she said they are the same group so wanted to be sure. I forgot to ask about nose swab so I called & mentioned that this morning. I should hopefully find out during the course of the day what the vets think for the next treatment option. We talked about possible neurological issues again but it all seems very unclear.

Pip seems ok this morning, his nose is looking very wet again though although not crusty. He was sneezing again a bit last night. Poor boy, I just want him to be well so I can get him introduced to Peanut. We did try to introduce him to Peanut before but Pip was only 300g then & got squished by all the humping rolleyes now he is 600g I am hoping he will be able to withstand it a bit better & they will settle down ok.

Has anybody used doxycycline with their guineas?
 
My late Nigel was on Doxycycline when he came to me from Cornwall. With him it had no effect because it turned out that he had a heart problem and ended up on heart meds instead. I would not say it isn't useful though. For stubborn URI's and pneumonia I would always recommend Zithromax as it got my late Buzz through an awful case of pneumonia.
 
My vet called back. She has now spoken to the exotics vet who feels it is likely to be a long term problem that will flare up from time to time. They suggest:

1) trying a higher dose of Baytril
2) GA for nasal swab & middle ear x-ray
3) nebuliser
4) a different antibiotic

They are least keen on trying a different antibiotic as they feel this will reduce treatment options in the future if resistance becomes a problem for him as he may need long-term antibiotics. They do not think a nasal swab without GA is very useful as we could pick up skin bacteria & he has only just stopped the Baytril so it wouldn't be particularly accurate.

I, on the other hand, am most keen on trying a different antibiotic as I feel a short course of something more effective may just get rid of this bacterial infection. I think it is too early to start thinking about chronic, long-term care such as nebulisers & long-term dosing with antibiotics. Pip is only 4 months old! Am I being reasonable?

I have agreed with the vet that we will try a course of doxycycline, she is getting the dose rates from the exotics vet & we will go from there... I showed her the thing yesterday from guinealynx where a member says they have observed best results at the rat dose of 5mg/kg twice daily. We will see what they come back with. Are there any side-effects of doxycycline I should watch out for?
 
Pip is a lot snottier & sneezier tonight 48 hours since he last had antibiotics. I will hopefully be getting the new ABs from the vet in the morning & get some into him. Poor little boy. He's just tucked in to a pile of veggies though so that's a good thing.
 
Bisolvon is great for snotty piggies, you can pop it into their water bottle and is harmless to others.
It really helped my girl last winter when she had pleurisy.
Hugs to Pip x
 
We are going to try the doxycycline for Pip at 5mg / kg dose.

The vet says it comes as a tablet & has to be crushed. Does anybody have any experience of this? I was expecting a liquid I suppose. She said there is a rick of oesophageal damage unless the crushed tablet is followed with a syringe of water & apparently it tastes awful :(.

The vets are pretty twitchy about trying this & want me to sign a form to say we are using it off licence as they aren't sure what the outcome will be.

Bertie who had the same treatment as Pip over 2 weeks & seemed better has also started sounding rattley in the chest & sneezing as of last night so we are going to try him with more antibiotics too. What a shame for these poor boys, I wish we could get rid of this bug!

Any advice on administering the doxycycline? I was thinking to mix with pumpkin puree maybe?
 
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No advice on Doxy I'm afraid. Would they consider trying Zithromax instead? Alot of piggies on the forum have used it with success for URI type problems.

Lots of healing vibes to Pip x
 
I would recommend Zithromax again as it is so effective and can be given as a suspension. I also agree with the Bisolvon recommendation too. Your vets don't seem particularly guinea pig savvy, where abouts are you?

Do you have a steam inhaler at home? the type you would use yourself when you have a cold?, you simply fill it with hot water, put a couple of drops of olbas oil in and hold the mask over the pigs nose in 5 second bursts. We used this with Buzz and it really helped him.

If you do go ahead with the Doxy, you can crush the tablet using a pestle and mortar if you have one? Then mix with a small amount of water.

One thing I will say though about recurring URIs is that they can be a symptom of a heart problem, we have had pigs where we decided in conjuction with our vet to start a heart med trial and this worked brilliantly. Nigel was an example of this. A chest xray can also be carried out aswell to make sure.
 
Thanks all, I thought Zithromax was an antibiotic of last resort? I am hoping we can use the doxycycline rather than having to go that far...

The vets are putting up the crushed tabs for me into individual doses. They are a general practice vet hospital but have taken advice from our specialist exotics vet who we see sometimes as a referral. I don't think as yet this is a recurrent URI; we all had colds at home & 2 of the piggies got this URI a few days later. My feeling is it's just something we haven't managed to shift yet & it's still the initial infection. I know that we may have to look at further investigation if this doesn't work but I like to avoid GA where possible for piggies so think it's probably worth a go with a different AB first.

I hope the doxycycline will be ok, I was expecting oral suspension rather than tablets though.

It's a worrying time when these little chaps are unwell
 
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