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Specialist Heart murmur..

elocin

Junior Guinea Pig
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Background: six year old guinea pig (seven in November), fed on burgess excel guinea pig nuggets and burgess excel timothy hay, as well as a cup of leafy greens each day, with the occasional treat or fruit. She doesn't have a companion as her sister died last year, and I've been unable to find another elderly sow to live with her.

Brought my guinea pig into the vets last Friday as she hadn't been eating much and was producing very soft stools. On Friday they gave her antibiotics and painkillers, as well as a prescription of Oxbow Critical Care. When I took her back in on the Saturday her poops were still pretty much the same and a different vet had found a heart murmur. She was given an antibiotic injection and was to be kept on the painkillers alongside syringe feeding.

She had her check up today and the vet examined her once more. Stools are still soft, but slightly more firm than they were before but not much has changed. She's eating a little more, but nowhere near the amount she did before she was sick. I've also noticed a little bit of weight loss despite the syringe feeding which she gets 4x a day. She will only handle 5ml of this at a time however. She barely touches her nuggets or timothy hay, both of which she loved before and would eat in their entirety.

I'm in training to eventually become a vet so I'm administering her feeds correctly as well as her medications, but in all of my lifetime of owning guinea pigs I have never, ever had one become ill - all of them have died of old age. So this is a new experience for me. The vet has placed her on heart medication, a drug called Fortekor. She is to have half of a tablet crushed in water or ribena daily for the next ten days before her next check up to see if this helps. I am to continue syringe feeding her and keeping her off of veg/fruit in the meanwhile. I am having to supplement vitamin C as she normally maintains adequate levels of vitamin C through her diet.

If this is heart disease/failure, what should I expect? Is the soft stools/lethargy/lack of appetite typical of this condition? And how long do elderly guinea pigs with this problem normally survive?

Thanks in advance.
 
Background: six year old guinea pig (seven in November), fed on burgess excel guinea pig nuggets and burgess excel timothy hay, as well as a cup of leafy greens each day, with the occasional treat or fruit. She doesn't have a companion as her sister died last year, and I've been unable to find another elderly sow to live with her.

Brought my guinea pig into the vets last Friday as she hadn't been eating much and was producing very soft stools. On Friday they gave her antibiotics and painkillers, as well as a prescription of Oxbow Critical Care. When I took her back in on the Saturday her poops were still pretty much the same and a different vet had found a heart murmur. She was given an antibiotic injection and was to be kept on the painkillers alongside syringe feeding.

She had her check up today and the vet examined her once more. Stools are still soft, but slightly more firm than they were before but not much has changed. She's eating a little more, but nowhere near the amount she did before she was sick. I've also noticed a little bit of weight loss despite the syringe feeding which she gets 4x a day. She will only handle 5ml of this at a time however. She barely touches her nuggets or timothy hay, both of which she loved before and would eat in their entirety.

I'm in training to eventually become a vet so I'm administering her feeds correctly as well as her medications, but in all of my lifetime of owning guinea pigs I have never, ever had one become ill - all of them have died of old age. So this is a new experience for me. The vet has placed her on heart medication, a drug called Fortekor. She is to have half of a tablet crushed in water or ribena daily for the next ten days before her next check up to see if this helps. I am to continue syringe feeding her and keeping her off of veg/fruit in the meanwhile. I am having to supplement vitamin C as she normally maintains adequate levels of vitamin C through her diet.

If this is heart disease/failure, what should I expect? Is the soft stools/lethargy/lack of appetite typical of this condition? And how long do elderly guinea pigs with this problem normally survive?

Thanks in advance.

Hi! Is your girl on any heart meds? It would also help if we knew which country you are in as medical brand names can differ.
We have members whose guinea pigs have lived considerable spans of life on the correct heart medication.

@Jaycey @helen105281 @furryfriends (TEAS) @Abi_nurse
 
Hi! Is your girl on any heart meds? It would also help if we knew which country you are in as medical brand names can differ.
We have members whose guinea pigs have lived considerable spans of life on the correct heart medication.

@Jaycey @helen105281 @furryfriends (TEAS) @Abi_nurse
Yes, the vet prescribed her half a pill of 2.5mg fortekor daily, which she is to be on for ten days before her next visit. I'm from Scotland :)
 
Yes, the vet prescribed her half a pill of 2.5mg fortekor daily, which she is to be on for ten days before her next visit. I'm from Scotland :)

Would your vet consider a diuretic like frusol and using vetmedin, too? The tagged in members have made good experiences with the combination of them. They can hopefully advise you better as I have no personal experience in this area.

The soft stool is the result of lack of fibre. It will hopefully settle down again with offering added fibre. Please be aware that your boy is a great age when the metabolism is slowing down. If he is really unwilling to eat, then he may have either a pain problem or a problem with processing nutrition.
You could also consider a course of fibreplex to help with a tender gut.
 
@elocin My heart pig was on a full 2.5mg of fortekor a day. The medication can take a long time to kick in which I think is why some vets do a short trial and then give up.

My boy was also on frusemide and vetmedin. He seemed to perk up a lot on the vetmedin.

He was diagnosed at around 3 years old and had another 2 years on the medication until he died of a separate issue.
 
Hello there,

Welcome to the forum. A few things to advise on for you, I hope I can be of help.

- a heart murmur does not necessarily mean heart failure, my 3 year old lunkarya at home has quite a moderate heart murmur but we scanned her heart and she is certainly not in failure but it is something I am watching for in the future
- to diagnose functional heart failure and prescribe the correct drugs your piggie ideally needs a scan of the heart to rule it in or out, weigh loss and inappitance is a vague sign of many things so the murmur may be a red herring here
- if she's barely eating 5ml four times a day is not enough at all, she will need a minimum of 10-15ml 5 x a day really to keep the weight stable or put on
- many of the critical care sysrinfe formulas have vitamin c added in, but you can add more if you wish to do so
- fortekor is an ace inhibitor - I wouldn't want to put your piggie on it without a true diagnosis
- what is your vets reasoning for antibiotics? All too often vets simply prescribe them without for thought, and it's not good for piggies or humans.

Feel free to ask more questions. Exotics vet nurse here, seen and had pigs with heart failure and without. Happy to help.

x
 
Hello there,

Welcome to the forum. A few things to advise on for you, I hope I can be of help.

- a heart murmur does not necessarily mean heart failure, my 3 year old lunkarya at home has quite a moderate heart murmur but we scanned her heart and she is certainly not in failure but it is something I am watching for in the future
- to diagnose functional heart failure and prescribe the correct drugs your piggie ideally needs a scan of the heart to rule it in or out, weigh loss and inappitance is a vague sign of many things so the murmur may be a red herring here
- if she's barely eating 5ml four times a day is not enough at all, she will need a minimum of 10-15ml 5 x a day really to keep the weight stable or put on
- many of the critical care sysrinfe formulas have vitamin c added in, but you can add more if you wish to do so
- fortekor is an ace inhibitor - I wouldn't want to put your piggie on it without a true diagnosis
- what is your vets reasoning for antibiotics? All too often vets simply prescribe them without for thought, and it's not good for piggies or humans.

Feel free to ask more questions. Exotics vet nurse here, seen and had pigs with heart failure and without. Happy to help.

x

I'm aware of the heart murmur not always being an indication of heart failure, but they're looking towards that mainly in regards to her age I think. I'm not sure myself if it is that yet and neither are the vets. None of the vets in my area are specialists in exotic pets and I have suggested x-rays and stool samples etc. to them but they've pretty much brushed past the idea. I don't think I could afford it either as I'm disabled and don't get any funding from the government as I'm a full time student, so I only have £200 to my name right now :( She still eats some hay and nuggets, just not as much as she used to. I've been increasing her feed and just managed to get her to eat 8ml there over the course of an hour, but it gets to a point where she just refuses to take any more no matter what restraint I use. She isn't entirely off food. On Friday she was, but since then she has started eating more, I'm watching her munch on some hay right now. Starting tomorrow I will be able to spend more time giving her supplement feeds as I've been at college almost every day finishing up on my course.

They initially put her on the antibiotics as they thought with her symptoms it could have been a bacterial problem. She had two dosages of it - one oral on Friday, and an injection on Saturday, and that was the last of it.She's also on the anti-inflammatory metacam which seems to help, as I notice her eating more within a couple of hours of having it. The vet gave her some of the fortekor today at the clinic, but didn't really explain his reasoning other than that he's worried about how her heart sounds when he's listening to it.
 
Hello,

If metacam is helping then it makes me suspicious of a pain of some sort causing the lack of eating and weight loss. A cheap test which may be worthwhile is a urine test to rule in or out urinary infections and maybe renal problems (often difficult to say with certainty with a urine test) Even if you look at it yourself (not sure what point in training you at so sorry if I assume you have access to this). Sorry you don't have much funds, you may well not get to the bottom of her illness without further diagnostics to be honest, so you need to talk at length with your vet about prioritising what you want to do at this stage. I hope she picks up for you, sounds like your doing all you can for her at the moment. If your vet is unwilling then you need to be more forceful about more work or meds for your little one and ask them to seek advice from a specialist.

Hope she does okay.
Abi
 
Hello,

If metacam is helping then it makes me suspicious of a pain of some sort causing the lack of eating and weight loss. A cheap test which may be worthwhile is a urine test to rule in or out urinary infections and maybe renal problems (often difficult to say with certainty with a urine test) Even if you look at it yourself (not sure what point in training you at so sorry if I assume you have access to this). Sorry you don't have much funds, you may well not get to the bottom of her illness without further diagnostics to be honest, so you need to talk at length with your vet about prioritising what you want to do at this stage. I hope she picks up for you, sounds like your doing all you can for her at the moment. If your vet is unwilling then you need to be more forceful about more work or meds for your little one and ask them to seek advice from a specialist.

Hope she does okay.
Abi

I've only just completed my first year, so I still have four more to go. I'll happily use the money I have left to help her tbh. Her poops have been more solid over the past couple of days, but then she did a few at lunchtime that were long and soft again. Can a heart murmur alone even cause those kind of symptoms? She's still not eating much but I've been managing to keep her weight at around 790g with supplemental feeding. The weird thing is, she's interested in food but she just won't take it unless it's a veg of some sort. I offered her some timothy hay tonight and she pulled the pieces off of me like she was going to eat them and dropped them to the ground, same with her nuggets. But when I offered her a tiny bit of cucumber she took it. The vets have already looked at her jaw and can't find anything wrong, so I don't think it's that. She is still drinking and munching on her hay/nuggets every now and then and I'm still supplement feeding her. If her eating habits don't get better by Thursday I'm going to suggest the vets to run more tests. Thanks for your help ♥
 
Update again!

She's started eating more in the past few days and ate almost all of the nuggets in her bowl the other day. I'm still giving her Oxbow but I've been decreasing it as her appetite has increased and today she's done some perfectly healthy stools! She's also back to being vocal when I get up in the morning to feed her. She likes taking her medication now and I don't have to force her to do it. Back to the vets on Thursday to see if she is to stay on the heart meds but things are looking good :) x
 
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