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Help! ... Baytril = Bloat?

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WinnieandBear

WinnieandBear

Junior Guinea Pig
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bishops stortford
Hello,

My 10 mth old female piggie, Bear, was recently a little wheezy and had a little crust on her eyes on Tues eve. I popped her into the vets who said she did sound a little wheezy but wasn't overly concerned but prescribed Baytril as a precaution, 0.2ml twice a day. She seemed normal if a little skittish yesterday but this morning I woke up to find a few soft and tiny poops in the cage (she lives with a cage mate who is in good health)

I then noticed late morning her stomach was distended and she wasn't eating. She is having fibreplex 1 hour after the baytril and also this morning I gave her some critical care as she was hardly eating.

I took her to the vets this afternoon and they have prescribed emeprid and said to syringe feed water. I did so for a couple of hours and then spoke to a very cavy savvy nurse who I found online and she gave me tons of tips. I have stopped the Baytril as I know this is most probably the cause of this onset of bloat.

I have now been giving her 0.2ml of gripe water every three hours, vibrating her stomach with my phone (I have nothing else) and put her on top of the washing machine in her carrier. She has passed a few more soft but bigger poops and had some critical care and water but is still swollen and when I do massage, she complains, from pain I think.

The lady I spoke to said to keep this up throughout the night and as long as needed but my only concern is that she has no pain relief.

Has anybody got any tips at all I am ever so worried and am unsure whether to go to the vets out of hours...?

She is moving around and having the odd nibble on hay but is definitely not herself and of course still bloated.

Any advice would be amazing! I want to know if I can do anything more
 
I had this exact same problem with baytril only a couple of weeks ago!

Have a read through my thread here

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/bloat-advice.126512/

I received so much advice which was critical in helping my girl, be prepared for a very long night - do you have any critical care you can feed?

Also make sure no veggies at the moment, something like a rough card like a kitchen roll middle is really good to help give them some rough fibre
 
Am sorry she is so poorly. The advice you have been given is excellent. The only thing I would add is extra fluids and to keep up with hand feeding so she has something moving through her system. The gripe water should help with any pain from wind but you could call the out of hours vet to ask about pain relief if you are worried. There are other gut stimulants that can be prescribed but I don't have any personal experience of them so can't advise and I tend to favour the less is more approach of massage, fluids, pain relief and gripe water.
 
Poor Bear. Bloat is very painful for piggies. My vets always prescribe a large dose of metacam to help with the pain as well as Zantac, metclorpramide and gripe water. You are doing everything right but it would be worth asking for some pain relief for her.
 
Thank you @Alanaf ! I will have a look now. She has a tunnel which is cardboard that she was chewing but maybe I will sacrifice a toilet roll so she can have the inner... I'm tired already as I've been up since 6am with her but I shall persevere! Coffee and sweets on tap I guess. I'm so worried, she seems bright eyed I just hope she gets better soon
 
WinnieandBear said:
Thank you @Alanaf ! I will have a look now. She has a tunnel which is cardboard that she was chewing but maybe I will sacrifice a toilet roll so she can have the inner... I'm tired already as I've been up since 6am with her but I shall persevere! Coffee and sweets on tap I guess. I'm so worried, she seems bright eyed I just hope she gets better soon
Click to expand...

You are a great piggy mum, keep on but make sure you get some rest too x
 
I was reluctant to ask for Metacam as we lost her sister in feb and after having it injected she had recurrent fits until she passed away a few hours later so I'm super paranoid with the girls anyway! But if it could help I will definitely give them a call and see if I can go down and grab some for her. Luckily we're a 10 minute walk from our vets. She's on my lap at the moment watching the tv and having a phone vibration massage... which she seems to enjoy over me massaging her by hand
 
That's ok, yeah I found that scruff didn't really want to eat her big card tunnel wen she wasn't feeling good - but would chew like made on the slightly thinner kitchen roll card.


Is she hunched in any obvious pain?

The other key thing with tackling bloat is to get her to move around - do you have an indoor way she can have floor time? I had to gently chase scruff around to get her to move and it really helps with the poops.

This was my routine during the key stage of the bloat:

Prescribed medication:
0.2ml of emeprid and Zantac twice a day
0.2 ml metacam for the pain
0.3 ml of gripe water every three hours

I was also mixing Pro C probiotic with water and giving her extra fluids by syringe throughout the days

Critical care you really want to try and get 120 ml into her over a 24 hour period - this is important for keeping weight up and helping to keep the guts moving.

As she is managing to pass some stools it doesn't sound like a blockage.

Now for the really time consuming bit!

every 2 HOURS - massage both sides of the abdomen, gently but firm with circular motions using your fingers - with the occasional slow stronger stroke from the head down the bottom - do this for 20 minutes

(After her dose of medication I massaged for half an hour)

I bought a shoulder massager to vibrate under a pillow - she then sat on this for a further 20 minutes... Have you got an electric toothbrush? Or do you have a car?

She than had a gentle enforced walk around for 15 minutes, and was then kept in her floor time pen with lots of hay and a soft bed to rest on.
 
That probably sounds hugely overwhelming - but our girl had gut statis so we had to really go go for getting her guts going again.

And as @VickiA make sure you get rest too! I am very nocturnal and will probably be up till about 3:30am - so please feel free to message me if you need to at any point in the night :)
 
Thank you everyone, and @Alanaf thank you so much for all of that info! That's really really helpful. I will follow the same method this evening then, but going to call the vets now as she is definitely in pain as shes on edge in the cage and when you massage her abdomen she makes alot of noise. Bloating definitely hasn't gone down from this afternoon sadly. I've been getting her to move about as much as possible but she just sits after a while so I will have to resort to chasing her a little in the kitchen too. The only things I have to vibrate are my iphone and washing machine :no: xx
 
The washing machine would be great on a spin cycle - just dump some towels in there and out her on it on a soft cushion - then run a good spin!

If it seems like her pain is considerable you may have to think about an out of hours vet appointment - do you know if there is one close to you?

Also have a conversation with your vet tomorrow about Zantac, depending on where the gas build up is that would be helpful - as it works on a different part of the gut to the emeprid.

Did the vets do an X-ray to establish where/how much of a build up there was?
 
My piggy had that a couple of weeks back our vet gave as loxicom 0.2ml twice a day but our piggy weighted 800g at the time its a cat/dog pain killer normally,
Also if your useing fiberplex your piggy's poos will be a bit sticky I was worried when my piggy's were so I took a pot full down the vets :-) lovley gift for them to look at first thing in the morning lol
Hope your piggy gets better soon x
 
@Alanaf she's had two spin cycles this evening! She didn't seem impressed but hopefully they have helped. I've just put her back in her cage and she has done some more poops in the litter tray and has been lying down seeming a bit more relaxed, thank goodness. I think she holds them in until she gets back in the cage to be honest as I was worried she hadn't done any on the towel while she was on my lap. They didn't do any X rays no, me and my partner have lost faith in the vets to be honest and are considering one further out who holds a guinea pig clinic and the lady who helped me so much this afternoon was from there.

Spoke to the out of hours vet, he said that the emeprid and fibre intake was the most important part and I explained she was still running about and bright eyed etc. he said if she deteriorates then bring her down but to monitor her. Also the fee is £150 just to walk through the door, and apparently increases past midnight. There was me saying to him jokingly "well it will still be the same fee no matter what time of night I guess" haha. well my credit card is certainly feeling the burn since we got the girls as Bear and her sister Winnie who we sadly lost have been riddled with unknown problems (Never go to P@H for piggies :hb:)

If she gets worse I will of course have to take her, no problem but as she has pooed and is seeming a bit more chilled I will see how she goes and continue with everything that I have planned for the night! Thank you @Tinkoz for that tip, they have been very sticky actually!
Well what a fun evening, so glad I had two days off work in a row :yikes:

Bear is a big girl and weight 1kg and 100g so she is quite the robust lady. Bless her. :luv:
 
That's really good that the poos are still coming.

Great that she's bright eyed and moving around, if her eyes seem dull and sunken at any point then she is becoming very dehydrated - but she shouldn't be if you are managing to get extra fluids into her.

Emeprid works the higher gut causing the stomach to empty and Zantac works the rest of the gut making them contract - I was prescribed the two to give at the same time and was strongly encouraged by the expert voices on here that the tag team approach with the two medications is the best way to go.

For now the gripe water, emeprid and fibre will be doing well over night but Zantac might be best in the longer term. As I'm afraid bloat is quite a drawn out battle, we are currently sorting a small bloating episode from scruff at the moment - and this is after nearly 4 weeks of treatment.

Sorry to hear about her sister, we lost our other girl last year to heart failure - and I know what you mean about a bank balance hit, after all of be bloat issues with scruff we've discovered she had a cyst on her ovary, so treating for that now too!

To be honest I think you're right about considering another vet, we are very lucky with our local one as they have been great with us - where abouts are you based?
 
@Alanaf Our vet is in Bishops Stortford which is the town I live in, but we have found somewhere in broxbourne which isn't too far and like my boyfriend said, we would rather people we can trust. I feel like I know more from my own research about guinea pigs than what my surgery can sometimes offer. Guess being obsessed with them and researching every little details helps :eek::wub:

Aw I hope Scruff gets over it all soon, poor things I hate seeing them so uncomfortable, my piggies are my babies. Worry about them far too much sometimes for my own good! Sounds like your little one has been through the wars lately after reading your thread, bless her! I'm so sorry to hear about your loss too, it's devastating isn't it​
 
It is but she was happy right to the end as it was so sudden.

I completely agree about going somewhere you can trust, we are just so lucky that our vet has a fantastic worker called Kate who is a rabbit specialist but also very cavvysavvy.

Don't worry I am totally the same about obsessive research! That was how I managed to spot something wasn't right and realise it must be bloat really early.

You sound like a fantastic piggy mum! Great that you have a supportive boyfriend too, my partner had been great through all of this with me aswell. We got the girls soon after being together, they truly become part of your family so quickly don't they!

I'm sending the biggest hugs to you and your girl, and wishing you all the luck with this - you're doing everything you can which is the important thing :)
 
I've just realised who has been helping you this afternoon. Have sent you a message.
 
All advice on the bloat issue is great.

For my part however, I am concerned that you have attributed the bloat solely to baytril and have thus decided to stop any abx treatment for a suspected URI.

I had drafted a lengthy reply but owing to the fast developments on your thread will now wait and see if it is still appoppriate to post my thoughts tomorrow evening. .
 
good point @Pebble I focussed on the bloat advice as that is now where my main experience lies after everything with scruff!

I think with us we attributed the bloat solely to the gut slow down from the baytril as she was only on it for a precautionary reason after a hay poke to the nostril.

We have since struggled to shift it due to discovering the cyst - our vet believes that the cyst was there before but grew rapidly over the couple of weeks she was ill she to her compromised immune system.

If I were you I'd book a vets appointment with the better vet for as soon as you can to

a)properly asses how the bloat is doing - potentially have X-rays
And then b) establish whether you might need to go into a different antibiotic if the URI is still present - I forget the precise names of others so don't want to make them up but pebble might be able to suggest some alternatives to discuss with the vet?
 
Alanaf said:
good point @Pebble I focussed on the bloat advice as that is now where my main experience lies after everything with scruff!

I think with us we attributed the bloat solely to the gut slow down from the baytril as she was only on it for a precautionary reason after a hay poke to the nostril.
Click to expand...

Countless guinea pig owners (both past and present) still continue to blame baytril for "causing" gut problems (despite my posts over the last two years on the subject).
I have no doubt that Baytril may contribute to an already-developing gut issue - ....but in most cases it is certainly not the instigator/cause!
x
 
Ah sorry pebble I havnt been a member for very long so havnt seen your past posts on baytril - I was just going with speculations from our vets!
 
Her stuffy nose is gone and of course stopping any antibiotic treatment isn't recommended until the dose is finished but as some guinea pigs do have an intolerance to Baytril I was cautious; I called a lady who runs a fantastic guinea pig clinic at a vets not too far from where I live and she gave me some brilliant advice and also reccomended stopping the Baytril until the bloat clears up and then looking into a different antibiotic if needed. Thank you all for the brilliant advice, of course I wouldn't forget the URI possibility but as she is breathing perfectly today of course I want her back on form and eating and pooping properly first and foremost. Also if she is intolerant to a particular antibiotic I would rather leave this evenings dose and take her in the morning to get an alternative one if needed :)
 
Hello,

Bear was fed throughout the night but her stomach was still so bloated and I followed everything that was suggested to me. Her poo was very soft and had no shape and she did a few of those this morning. She was moving about and nibbling a tiny amount of hay but as a precaution and mainly because she hasn't improved but is stable if anything, whilst she is still bright and alert I took her to my vet this morning. We both agreed it would benefit her to have her admitted to the small animal hospital so they can administer drugs subcutaneously etc. and although I am sooooo distraught I feel like it was the right decision as they will have everything they need to hand and nurses to help her. I am phoning this afternoon to check her progress but she could be in for a few days apparently... Sigh. Thank you everybody I am certain all that I did helped her and kept her going so far

Xx
 
I know its hard but you have done the right thing for your baby. She will get round the clock perfesional care, hopefully she won't be in long & make a quick recovery so she will be back home in your arms x
 
Thank you, just had an update that she has nibbled some food and been syringe fed but still no poos. The nurse said they are waiting on all of the drugs to kick in and that she is very bright and alert but that if it was gut stasis it can take a few days anyway. So so glad she hasn't deteriorated ! She's a strong girl so hopefully she will pull through this xx
 
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