Specialist Help Fudge Has Renal Disease

[Adelle]

Fudge has "almost certain" diagnosis of kidney disease today at the vets. She had been drinking lots about 2 months ago, otherwise she was in great health and happy, urinalysis was fine, no diabetes and was told just to monitor- it quickly resolved. It started again about 10 days, and over the past 4 days she became quieter. 2 days ago she developed loose poops which again, resolved overnight. Then she started being hunched and puffed up and breathing heavy (only when left alone, when stimulated she seemed perfectably normal). She started to feel colder than the other two so i had to heat her up with blankets. Her cagemate has ovarian cysts and has been a hormonal angry girl, but just last night fudge started retaliating whe normaly she is extremely submissive. This morning she had yellow discharge on her vulva (101 things happening at once it seemed!). Took her to the vets today and explained it all, urine showed no protein but a trace of blood, specific gravity was very low showing her urine was extremely dilute - her kidneys arent able to concentrate it. I know the drill, i know all about the disease and pallitive care in pets as i worked in a spexialist vet hospital and saw it often.. But i have never gone through it with my GPs and i am looking for any advice at all that might help her. I know loxicom (metacalm) is bad for kidneys, I'm not keen on tramadol and buprenorphine cant be given orally. Does anyone have advice about pain relief? I'm limiting her calcium intake through veg- should i worry about whats in her pellet food? I'm giving her cucumber and soaking veg in water to give extra fluid- since this her drinking has reduced dramatically. She has a selection of foods, timothy hay, burgess pellets mint, burgess pellets blackcurrent and a small amount of harvest forage (as shes never had this before)- it is low in protein and higher in fiber. Iv bought her a heat pad, but unsire of pain releif as its only when shes in her house resting she doesnt look right, but is fine when up and about? Shes seperated so i can check her input and outputs and so she doesnt fet bullied by my domanant sow- they have 2 hours floor time all 3 of them a day.

Sorry for this essay, I'm devastated. Shes 5 yrs old and a special girl. My ovarian cyst girl has a specialist ultrasound, cysts draining and first hormone injection next week- everything is happening so fast.

 

[biscandmatt]

if it were me, i'd have it confirmed via a blood test. my maisie was thought to have this at one stage from initial symptoms and testing. she was losing protein in her urine and her urine was extremely dilute. however bloods showed her kidneys were fine and her issue was actually chronic cystitis and ovarian cysts issues. found through the bloods and a sterile urine sample taken directly from her bladder. she had been suffering from chronic cystitis though so more likely that in her case than your girls case. but thought i'd mention because had we not confirmed it, she may have been treated for kidney disease when it wasn't even that.

eddie had kidney disease last year, followed by failure. when he was having a ga for his bloods, the vet was able to palpate his body more easily and could feel only one kidney. the bloods then showed the advanced kidney disease and in his case we unfortunately didn't get chance to provide palliative care as he went downhill very quickly. however if we had found it early enough then it's possible we could have provided it. this is why i would always say have it confirmed and then you know exactly what you are dealing with and can work out a treatment plan.

fluids are an essential part of the palliative care (you probably will already know this) - pain relief is important i would say. and like you say, metacam is not good for already damaged kidneys. really anything puts extra strain on the kidneys because it filters everything. tramadol might be one of the other options. some get a bit drowsy from it, however maisie didn't so it depends on the individual. if she has times where she is puffed up then she is definitely in some discomfort and being cold also means she is struggling to keep her temperature stable.

watery veg will help. lettuces are great for bladder piggies/piggies who need extra fluid.

you can read eddie's thread if you like. it started off with a dental but became clear that something else was going on. then i go into more detail about the kidney disease and treatment. he was alot further on with it than your piggy sounds, but even so, it might help you if you do get to that stage. i just wish we had known earlier. so if there is a chance to know earlier through bloods then i'd definitely recommend that. x

 

[Adelle]

if it were me, i'd have it confirmed via a blood test. my maisie was thought to have this at one stage from initial symptoms and testing. she was losing protein in her urine and her urine was extremely dilute. however bloods showed her kidneys were fine and her issue was actually chronic cystitis and ovarian cysts issues. found through the bloods and a sterile urine sample taken directly from her bladder. she had been suffering from chronic cystitis though so more likely that in her case than your girls case. but thought i'd mention because had we not confirmed it, she may have been treated for kidney disease when it wasn't even that.

eddie had kidney disease last year, followed by failure. when he was having a ga for his bloods, the vet was able to palpate his body more easily and could feel only one kidney. the bloods then showed the advanced kidney disease and in his case we unfortunately didn't get chance to provide palliative care as he went downhill very quickly. however if we had found it early enough then it's possible we could have provided it. this is why i would always say have it confirmed and then you know exactly what you are dealing with and can work out a treatment plan.

fluids are an essential part of the palliative care (you probably will already know this) - pain relief is important i would say. and like you say, metacam is not good for already damaged kidneys. really anything puts extra strain on the kidneys because it filters everything. tramadol might be one of the other options. some get a bit drowsy from it, however maisie didn't so it depends on the individual. if she has times where she is puffed up then she is definitely in some discomfort and being cold also means she is struggling to keep her temperature stable.

watery veg will help. lettuces are great for bladder piggies/piggies who need extra fluid.

you can read eddie's thread if you like. it started off with a dental but became clear that something else was going on. then i go into more detail about the kidney disease and treatment. he was alot further on with it than your piggy sounds, but even so, it might help you if you do get to that stage. i just wish we had known earlier. so if there is a chance to know earlier through bloods then i'd definitely recommend that. x

Thank you for that info, last night after writing this post i had a thought.. My ovarian cyst sow has a ultrasound next week with an imaging specialist thats coming to the practice.. I think i might book fudge in too and get her to have a look at her kidneys (can you tell from inaging? Id imagine you could if its chronic?) and her GI tract. Fudge ate some plastic/ cable around 6/7 weeks ago when i was on holiday. She suffered GI probs after and has never been the same since. The drinking lots could be due to pain? My vet more thought kidneys but no harm finding out?x

 

[biscandmatt]

Thank you for that info, last night after writing this post i had a thought.. My ovarian cyst sow has a ultrasound next week with an imaging specialist thats coming to the practice.. I think i might book fudge in too and get her to have a look at her kidneys (can you tell from inaging? Id imagine you could if its chronic?) and her GI tract. Fudge ate some plastic/ cable around 6/7 weeks ago when i was on holiday. She suffered GI probs after and has never been the same since. The drinking lots could be due to pain? My vet more thought kidneys but no harm finding out?x

drinking lots can be due to pain, problems eating, and bladder issues brewing, aswell as kidney issues. even gut problems like they are trying to flush their system out. so definitely worth considering. her GI tract might have some damage from eating the plastic or be inflammed.

i don't know about the imaging for kidneys to be honest. ours will palpate them whilst they are under ga, and this way you can feel any abnormalities. eddie's one kidney felt wrong, and the other one had basically shrivelled up already. then the bloods came back and confirmed it. i think the kidneys have to be a certain amount damaged before it shows on bloods. i think it's about 75% but not completely sure on that. this is how ours find out but you could always ask them and see if another way would work aswell. but definitely makes sense to find out.

eddie's other symptoms were - bloating, major weight loss (300g+) puffed up, not being able to maintain temperature, reduced eating. he also had two previous gassy episodes which we didn't know were related at the time, but now make sense.

i hope you can find out what is going on

 

[Adelle]

drinking lots can be due to pain, problems eating, and bladder issues brewing, aswell as kidney issues. even gut problems like they are trying to flush their system out. so definitely worth considering. her GI tract might have some damage from eating the plastic or be inflammed.

i don't know about the imaging for kidneys to be honest. ours will palpate them whilst they are under ga, and this way you can feel any abnormalities. eddie's one kidney felt wrong, and the other one had basically shrivelled up already. then the bloods came back and confirmed it. i think the kidneys have to be a certain amount damaged before it shows on bloods. i think it's about 75% but not completely sure on that. this is how ours find out but you could always ask them and see if another way would work aswell. but definitely makes sense to find out.

eddie's other symptoms were - bloating, major weight loss (300g+) puffed up, not being able to maintain temperature, reduced eating. he also had two previous gassy episodes which we didn't know were related at the time, but now make sense.

i hope you can find out what is going on

Well just last night fudges tummy bloated up, she looked huge and her tummy was harder than it shouldve been (no give when gently palpated) and i could feel what i think was her guts with hard poo in when palpating her left hand side), she was hardly pooing by this point but still stuffing her face with mainly water soaked veg and gem/butterhead/romaine lettuce so i couldnt understand it. I gave her 0.3ml of zantac syrup and by the morning there was masses of normal poos in her bed and her tummy had reduced dramatically. I know kidney issues cause GI problems but this is normally due to the toxins and it causes diahorrea.. Do u think what happened to her could still point to Renal?

I'm getting to the point i feel like I'm a nuisance at the vets, i was there at least every week with crunchie never mind the times i called and now fudge isnt well, and iv called the vet again to see if i can book her in for a scan. The vet is lovely but is probably sick of my voice!

 

[biscandmatt]

Well just last night fudges tummy bloated up, she looked huge and her tummy was harder than it shouldve been (no give when gently palpated) and i could feel what i think was her guts with hard poo in when palpating her left hand side), she was hardly pooing by this point but still stuffing her face with mainly water soaked veg and gem/butterhead/romaine lettuce so i couldnt understand it. I gave her 0.3ml of zantac syrup and by the morning there was masses of normal poos in her bed and her tummy had reduced dramatically. I know kidney issues cause GI problems but this is normally due to the toxins and it causes diahorrea.. Do you think what happened to her could still point to Renal?

I'm getting to the point i feel like I'm a nuisance at the vets, i was there at least every week with crunchie never mind the times i called and now fudge isnt well, and iv called the vet again to see if i can book her in for a scan. The vet is lovely but is probably sick of my voice!

it's hard to say. so many problems cause other issues and then it's hard working out which one came first! but it sounds like a gut slowdown, maybe from not feeling well. although stuffing her face with water soaked veggies could point to her need for water. but for what reason, it's hard to know. with eddie's poops, they were aways normal until the point where he didn't recover well from the dental. then he had gut slowdown and eventually very small soft poops with mucus aswell. not sure if that was the gut slowdown or the kidney disease or both.

i think we all feel that way with the vets! i know i do. but i'm sure they don't mind. i bet most owners are there alot and get worried. i'd ask to speak with the vet and ask whether they would recommend having it confirmed, and if so, what they think the best way would be. i usually write an email to mine so i can get all the info down that is in my head and he can have a proper read before discussing it with me again. i find this way works better for me anyway just because i don't miss anything out and they can address all the points. he doesn't seem to mind. he even says the more info the better so they can get a better overall picture of what you feel is going on.

 

[Adelle]

it's hard to say. so many problems cause other issues and then it's hard working out which one came first! but it sounds like a gut slowdown, maybe from not feeling well. although stuffing her face with water soaked veggies could point to her need for water. but for what reason, it's hard to know. with eddie's poops, they were aways normal until the point where he didn't recover well from the dental. then he had gut slowdown and eventually very small soft poops with mucus aswell. not sure if that was the gut slowdown or the kidney disease or both.

i think we all feel that way with the vets! i know i do. but i'm sure they don't mind. i bet most owners are there alot and get worried. i'd ask to speak with the vet and ask whether they would recommend having it confirmed, and if so, what they think the best way would be. i usually write an email to mine so i can get all the info down that is in my head and he can have a proper read before discussing it with me again. i find this way works better for me anyway just because i don't miss anything out and they can address all the points. he doesn't seem to mind. he even says the more info the better so they can get a better overall picture of what you feel is going on.

Thank you so much for your help, you clearly know what you're talking about! I'm waiting on a call back from the vet to discuss further investigation. I'll keep you updated xx

 

[biscandmatt]

Thank you so much for your help, you clearly know what you're talking about! I'm waiting on a call back from the vet to discuss further investigation. I'll keep you updated xx

that's ok i pass on our experiences but any good info comes from the vet i must admit! i always tell him i pass on his knowledge and claim it as my own! hope he knew i was joking

definitely keep us updated

 

[Adelle]

that's ok i pass on our experiences but any good info comes from the vet i must admit! i always tell him i pass on his knowledge and claim it as my own! hope he knew i was joking

definitely keep us updated

Spoke with the vet, she says its good that zantac is helping her and to continue with that until the 29th when she can have an abdominal scan. Hopefully get some answers.. If theres a gut issue il take it from there, if the guts are fine an kidneys look damaged then i'll treat for kidneys, and if both look fine then i'll request bloods to check kidney parameters.

If they show up fine then I'm going to bang my head against a wall! At least we have a plan. Shes currently curled on her side snoozing after her vegs, with lots of healthy poos surrounding her- il be poop scooping every hour at this rate! Shes comfortable and thats all i want xx

 

[biscandmatt]

always feels better when you have a plan. and good she is comfortable

 

[Adelle]

Fudge had her scan today along with Crunchie (see other thread). Everything looks normal as do her kidneys which is good news. They tried geting blood off her to check kidney parameters but she got too stressed so they stopped trying. She has been brighter recently and scoffing her face with veg, no recurring diahorrea as yet and is alot brighter. Still having episodes of fluffing her coat up but not hunching over, and when i give her a snuggle safe (heat pad) her coat goes back to normal and she continues running around silly. Shes no longer drinking as much either. She could still poss have kidney disease but at very early stages- so heres hoping it was al just a blip! xx

 

[Adelle]

Shes jumping about like a good'un showing off her war wounds and shaved patches!

 

[gizzy]

exerlant, thanks for the update

 

[biscandmatt]

aw she's lovely

 

[Flutterby]

Brill news that the scans are fine!

 

[gizzy]

fuge look so much like my Robin , , he is one of my tortycaules pig, and for what ever reason , they run arond in cercles

As type the little lad is runing around like a maniak he is going round and round


am now getting a bit concened thet he may fit,
if he keeps it up l am going to have to snuggle him to take his mind off this manic behavure

hope you dont mind me hijaking your post , but the little one is worring me a bit

 

[Adelle]

Do you mean her runs round in a small circle repeatedly? Or does laps of the cage? Fudge does laps of the cage, or the room if shes out, when shes happy and having a "mad half hour!". If hes spinning like hes confused and its out of character for him then maybe get him a check over

 

[gizzy]

when he arived here he could nut stop running roung in cycles, with a little time and effort
l managed to get him walking streaigh ,

this is not uncomon for torties ,

one way is to is to put 2 food boles on the ground and they will instinctivly run around them
then increse it two 4, then 8 ect
pritty soon the start runing streat
no all head tilt pigs are affected , but this manic behaviour semes to afecte light weight tortiys