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In need of advice for care of ill Guinea Pig

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The Alcotroll

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Four days ago, I picked up two new Guinea Pig females- partly to give Nefertiti some other friends to play with (Cleopatra is very bossy and I wonder sometimes if her smaller partner isn't getting a bit stressed by constantly being driven out of her hidey holes), and partly because I've been surprised by how much the Guinea Pigs have grown on me.

I noticed right away that one was lively and inquisitive, the other timid and sedentary; both weighed about 400g. I left them alone in a different part of the flat, quarantined from the other two, and let them settle in for 24 hours. The following day, I let them out for some floor time in the evening, and that was when I noticed that the quiet one had a stiff, crusted fur around her nostrils and eyes, and moist nostrils. I called the vet the following day (Christmas Eve, but I was lucky enough to get an appointment that day) and got them both examined. Freya, my sickly pig, did indeed have a respiratory infection, but the vet claimed that this was quite common in young Pigs moving into new homes. He proscribed Antibiotics and gave her a shot, with more to be administered orally over the next ten days, but said that half the battle would be to keep her calm, warm and well-fed.

Since then, I've tried to leave them alone as much as possible, made sure they've had some fresh veg (celerey, peppers and some Kale) and plenty of pellets, and of course tons of hay and plenty of shelter. I've sneaked a look once or twice and seen Freya moving and sometimes eating, but most of the time she stays very still and leaves her partner to do all the exploring.

Today, I've come back from a boxing day family gathering to find them huddled together in the straw, which is clogged with loose fecal matter- I've never seen Diahorrea in Guinea Pigs before, but I'm guessing that this is what it looks like. I'm already worried that she's not eating as much as she should be and I haven't yet seen her drink (unlike her friend). Obviously, I'll be back in touch with the Vet to book an appointment first thing tomorrow, but in the mean time, can anybody suggest what I can do to up her chances?

Currently little Freya is wrapped in a towel and sat on my lap, where she's sitting quietly and placidly- at least she doesn't seem to be sneezing as much. I'm hoping she'll poo eventually so I can see what state its in. I'm also wondering if I should keep her away from Megan- the other Guinnea; she seems active and lively and absolutely fine, but if Freya has the runs, will that increase the risk of infection? On the other hand, given the vet's advice that keeping Freya feeling safe and secure is half the battle, will removing her from her friend cause more anxiety?

Any advice would be gratefully recieved.
 
Is she on Baytril for her respiratory infection?

This can be quite harsh on the gut, and some probiotics would certainly be advised. In this case, if it is Freya with the loose poos, I'd recommend Fibreplex. You can get this from your vet. If you call them, (they will provide a 24hr emergency service - call their normal number and there will be instructions), they should allow you to just collect some if you explain what's going on (I work the emergency service at a 24 hour veterinary hospital and this shouldn't be a problem). I'd also see if you can book an appointment for tomorrow for her, as tomorrows appointments are likely to fill up quickly. The fibreplex is 1 graduation per kg bodyweight 3 times a day, so I'd give at least half a graduation 3x a day, given her weight.

I'd advise separating them for a short while - A) to see what Freya is eating and producing faeces wise, and B) to see what the other one is eating/producing too, just to rule out that it's not her doing the diarrhoea! Longer term than that, I wouldn't separate them personally; if they have anything contagious they'll already have passed it to each other if they're going to.

If she's not eating 100% by herself, you may wish to offer her some softened pellets (pop some on a plate, pour some boiling water over and allow to cool) which can be more tempting for them than ordinary pellets, or some critical care/supreme recovery food, again, made into a paste and offered via a bowl or spoon. If she's not eating much at all, you'll need to syringe feed her.

Other than that, keep her warm and comfortable, which may mean regular checks and bedding changes if she has diarrhoea and is sitting largely in one place.

They're very small weight wise, how old are they?
 
The antibiotic is indeed Baytril, though no probiotics as far as I can see- unless they're in with the solution. I've separated them for the last few hours and left Freya to her own devices with some mashed nuggets, hay and a few bits of pepper. She's had the pepper but as far as I can tell she's left the hay and nuggets. More worryingly, I didn't find any poo. She's off back to the Vet's tomorrow, but I'm still concerned about the mean-time.

I've put her back with Megan for now- I'm hoping that she might eat at least some hay if her friend is eating, but should I try force-feeding her from a syrnge the way I've been giving her the antibiotics? If she's compacted because of issues with gut flora then is it wise to put more food in? If she's willing to eat pepper, should she just have more of that?
 
The Alcotroll said:
The antibiotic is indeed Baytril, though no probiotics as far as I can see- unless they're in with the solution. I've separated them for the last few hours and left Freya to her own devices with some mashed nuggets, hay and a few bits of pepper. She's had the pepper but as far as I can tell she's left the hay and nuggets. More worryingly, I didn't find any poo. She's off back to the Vet's tomorrow, but I'm still concerned about the mean-time.

I've put her back with Megan for now- I'm hoping that she might eat at least some hay if her friend is eating, but should I try force-feeding her from a syrnge the way I've been giving her the antibiotics? If she's compacted because of issues with gut flora then is it wise to put more food in? If she's willing to eat pepper, should she just have more of that?
Click to expand...

If she's not pooed for several hours, she needs to go to a vet tonight, tomorrow may be too late, she may die before they reopen.

The probiotics are something you need to buy, they aren't in the antibiotics.

She isn't compacted because of gut flora issues, infact it's more likely to be the opposite - the gut needs a constant flow of high-fibre food to keep peristalsis (and therefore digestion) moving, hence why they're always eating and pooing. When this slows down, it's called ileus. When this stops, it's called gut stasis. She needs to see a vet tonight, to get some gastroprokinetics to kick start her digestion again. Please do not delay. This thread may be helpful http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?90842-How-to-contact-a-vet-out-of-hours
 
Thanks- yeah, I spoke to the emergency vets who said she hadn't been on Antibiotics for long enough to have picked up problems with the gut fauna (flora?) and that the lack of poo was probably due to not eating. They also were cagey about whether she really needed probiotics. I know a lot of people on this forum reckon they do- but I'm not a vet. It really annoys me when people who aren't teachers try to tell me how to do my job, so I'll hold off on second-guessing the professionals for the time being. They'll examine her later this afternoon. To hedge my bets, I gave her some poo soup instead of the Baytril this morning, and I'll hold off on the antibiotics until this evening.

The good news is, she's alive and seems a little more active, and certainly more inclined to struggle when I check her over. I've seen her crunching occasional nuggets and possibly hay, but she's lost about 20g of weight since yesterday and I'm sure she's not eating anything like as much as she should be.
When I isolate her though, she wheeks for a while and then just huddles in a corner and does nothing; being in Megan's company keeps her a lot more animated. I can't check for certain what she's eating and passing but at least she's more comfortable with a friend.
We'll have to see what the Vet says when he looks at her.
 
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Sit-rep;

Freya has been given some anti-inflamatory (not quite sure why) and is staying on the anti-biotics- the Vet reckons that probiotics should be part of the recovery process, but there's no point giving them at the same time as she has anti-biotics. He's given me some recovery food to syringe-feed her and she actually stopped struggling when I gave her the first lot. She's stopped losing weight at least, though I still don't think I'm finding enough poo, and I rarely catch her eating (though she chews her flexi-log hidey).

She started wheeking like mad at about one o'clock last night- loud enough to wake me in the next room. I went to see, but her and Megan were just sat there cuddled together like they normally do. I watched for a bit and then went back to bed. By four, she'd done it three more times and every time I went to check on her they were sat together. In the end, I sat in the darkness and watched untill eventually, Megan scratched herself, and Freya wheeked. After that, I separated them until this morning, but I'm still hearing forlorn little wheeks every now and again from the next room. I've just this moment caught Megan butting Freya- they were sat together in the corner of the cage, Megan munching hay and Freya looking sorry for herself. Then Megan turned around and butted her, and carried on eating.

Given how forlorn Freya seems without Megan around, I'm not sure I should be separating them, but on the other hand- these little wheeks of fear or pain are the most noise I've heard her make so it can't be doing her any good.
 
I'm sorry Freya is poorly.

Your vet is wrong re probiotics, they should be given alongside the antibiotics but at least an hour after the antibiotics are given. Every vet I use and the ones I work with at guinea pig clinic recommend the use of probioitics throughout the entire course of antibiotics and for at least a week after the course is over.
 
Well little Freya is still alive, but I'm not sure she's out of the woods yet. She's still a bit snotty, despite the antibiotics, and she's not eating on her own. I'm syrnge-feeding her the recovery diet the Vet gave me, and also nuggets mixed into a paste. She'll also take hay if I feed it her straw by straw. There were some deformed poos in her cage this morning- not the right shape but better than nothing. However, she's still listless and sedentary, and she only really seems to come alive for five minutes or so after I've syringe-fed her.

Back to the vet's this afternoon..
 
Poor Freya, hope the vets go well this afternoon. Baytril is an antibiotic that is harsh on the guts, if you are reluctant to give a probiotic, then I would recommend poo soup made from a healthy piggie this will help the good bacteria in her tummy which along with any bad things the antibiotics will be killing off...

How is her breathing?
 
Thanks for the advice and good wishes!

The Vet has checked her over again and reckons there's no bloat, and I'm finding more poo where she sits now- small and deformed, but better than nothing. I'm still syringe-feeding her recovery food and mashed nuggets, and the Vet has given me some Fibreplast which apparently is a pro-biotic and fibre suplement. She was horrified when I mentioned poo soup, so I'll hold off on that for now.

The best news is, as I was cooking tea, Freya started wheeking. I gave her some of the yellow pepper I was chopping and after a bit of a sniff, she started eating. She's had two slices and now retreated back to huddle in her corner- she's still not as active as I'd like, but I think there could be an improvement.

I'm to keep on giving her the Baytril, recovery feed every couple of hours, and Fibreplast three times a day, and we're back at the Vet's in a week to check things have improved.
Knowing my luck, she'll be better just in time for me to go back to work...
 
glad Freya is showing signs of improvement :)) also pleased to see she's got pro-biotics, they should help her to get back on track ,(did me the world of good when i had food poisoning! @) )
surprised vet was shocked at 'poo soup' when one of mine was poorly she would follow round after the other nudging at her bum trying to collect the others poos before she had even dispensed them! its just their way of keeping a healthy digestive system.

dont know if its worth a try, or even if she still has a snotty nose, but i put a piece of cloth with a few drops of 'olbus oil' on it a foot or so away from my girls hutch, seemed to help her breathing when she was having trouble with clogged nostrils.
dont put it anywhere that the piglies can get at. dont know if it would harm them if they actually got hold of it :o

cucumber seems to have that 'got to eat it ' factor for mine- always helps to keep them hydrated too. looks like its peppers for your little Freya.

Healing vibes to Freya & a hug for you too. xx
 
Ugh- it gets more complex by the hour.
Freya is more mobile now, and has had a few nuggets and some more pepper (neither of them care for cucumber or carrot, but like kale and pepper). The squeaking and wheeking has become more insistent and frequent, and where before I suspected that Megan was just fidgeting and Freya was scared or sore, now I've seen Megan properly going for Freya; little jumps and buts with her paws and head. Freya just sits there cowering and wheeking forlornly.

Given how much Megan's presence had seemed to gavanise Freya before, I don't want to split them up- but if Freya is on the mend then I don't want stress to send her downhill again. The weird thing is, when I first got them I was impressed by how well they got on together, Cleopatra and Nefertiti are always squabbling and Cleopatra refuses to share space with her friend, but these two have spent a lot of time squeezing into small spaces together, cuddling and generally looking like best of friends. I'm not sure why they've fallen out now, and I'm not sure what to do about it.

Also, it's just occured to me that I'll probably need to abandon my plans to go to Sheffield and get drunk for New Year- I'll be sat at home with a mug of tea, doling out fibreplast and recovery feed...
 
I'm definitely not a vet or vet nurse and there are a lot of people on here who have more knowledge than me.

Does Freya only squeak or cower when Megan is going for her, or is it persistent regardless of what Megan is doing? I wonder whether Megan is going for Freya because she's been in isolation for a while and is just exerting a bit of dominance again.

The other thing I was wondering was if Freya is wheeking and chirping without any interaction from Megan, it could be a cry of pain when Freya is passing liquid or faeces. I have read of members piggies squeaking a lot if they are having problems with passing urine. I don't know whether that's relevant to the situation, or whether Freya is squeaking because of Megan, but I thought I would just mention it.

xox
 
Its definately not when she's passing anything- she only ever does it when she's close to Megan. Its getting more frequent now- the wheeking is loud and insistent and clearly distressed. I get the impression that another pig would take the hint and clear out, but even now she's beginning to eat, Freya is still extremely lethargic and just wants to huddle in a hole- apart from the occasional forays to find food, the only time I see her move is when she's looking for Megan's current hiding place so she can join her.

It must be something to do with her medicine- I only ever separated them for two or three hours at a time to check Freya's poo- I even took Megan to the Vet's with her to give her some reassurance during the journey. The first three days I had them, they seemed like best friends and somehow managed to squeeze into the smallest spaces together. I can't work out why Megan has suddenly turned against Freya, but she's increasingly aggressive and I'm starting to hear teeth chattering now.

I've picked up another cage and some more hideys and food bowls so there's two of each, but even with twice the space Freya is still squealing whenever she's in the same place as Megan. I'm beginning to wonder if I need to separate them on a more permanent basis, at least until Freya is off the drugs. I'm just not sure which will be more stressful for her; isolation, or constant sniping from her cage-mate.
 
On a lighter note, here's the two of them being nice to each other on the second night home:



Freya is the ginger and black rug, Megan is the brown mousy one.



Here they are, somehow both managing to fit into a hay tunnel.
 
I'm back again, and I need advice!

Freya seems much stronger now- still on the meds and supplements, but she's moving around more and eating veg, hay and nuggets. She still squeals occasionally when she's sharing space with Megan, but they seem to be getting along again. What she's started doing, is wheeking- loudly and persistantly. She's doing it right now, in fact.

The other two wheek when I'm in the kitchen and they hear banging, cos they think I'm getting food out of the fridge, but Freya just does it randomly, and very very frequently. At first I thought she was looking for Megan, because Nefertiti does somthing similar if she can't find Cleopatra during floor time- but Freya does it when she's in a hidey with Megan, or she'll scuttle out of the hidey and then start wheeking. I wondered if she wanted a cuddle from me, given how much time she's spent being syrnge-fed, but then she sat in my lap and wheeked. I brought her food and she ate some, then climbed on top of it and wheeked some more.

She's very loud and its very frequent and I'm starting to wonder if I'll be getting complaints from the neighbouring flats. She also does it in the middle of the night, or at two in the morning. What on earth does she want, and how can I quieten her down? For the other two I have a stash of chopped veg in the fridge door so if they start up I can give them what they're after and then they're good until the next time I need to wash up or make a brew. Freya isn't so easily pleased.
 
Hi,
When I have had a piggie with a bladder infection, there was a clear cry as she was in pain, she tended to do it when I was out the room and it was a disturbing sound. She hunched up and cried at the same time. Once on meds she stopped crying she had anti biotics and anti inflammatories. There were fewer and fewer cries as she got better.
In the morning when they want breakfast (veggies) they squeak and squark like birds (very loud) only when they see me though. They do not quite down until I feed them. They know I feed them veg first thing in the morning and when they come in, in the evening. I would say my piggies know when they are fed and remind me if I am distracted. They get pretty loud. I dont tend to hear my piggies at night unless I give them things they can knock over.
The only other times I hear them being loud is when they are horny, purring.
I would make sure you think it is not pain cries. I would give dried food all the time and veggies at set times. Mine definately know the sounds and time of day they get veggie treats. I reckon it is much louder to you than what it is through walls. My piggies are in in the winter and it is unusual for me to hear them being noisy at night. No tips to keep them quiet, I would not feed them every time they wheek as they will be training you.
 
Also just to add, x3 out of 4 of my piggies cry if left alone. They can sound distressed if alone (ie not in same cage). I have noticed it carrying them from one cage to another the last one to be carried cries, a calling sound. When I isolated one piggie saturday night I kept her in a cage next to the others.
 
As I said before- I've considered all of these and discounted them. Nefertiti cries when she gets separated from Cleopatra, and she runs around trying to find her friend- Cleopatra usually comes out of hiding to find her, and Nefertiti stops as soon as they are reunited.

Freya will wheek when she's in the same hole as Megan, she'll wheek when she's just left the hole that she and Megan were in, sometimes she'll just sit and wheek without making any effort to look for Megan. I know she's not hungry because ever since she's been ill I've ensured that there's a constant supply of veg, nuggets and fresh hay, in addition to the recovery diet she's been hand-fed.

I'm not an expert on Guinea Pig noises but I do know the difference between the attention wheek and a yelp of pain, and this is definately not discomfort. It's the feed-me sound that the other girls make when they hear me in the kitchen.
An hour ago I put them both out for some floor time and Freya took one look at Megan, then scuttled off wheeking. She's been running around the room wheeking piercingly, investigating the hideys and the food before continuing. She spent about ten minutes cuddled up with Megan and then started wheeking again.
She was doing it last night at about quarter past 3, waking me up in the next room through a wall and two closed doors. I found her sat in her cage near the nuggets, munching and wheeking.

I'm beginning to wonder if its syringe feeding she wants; I've been cutting back on the recovery feed since she started eating and moving more. She doesn't struggle when I feed her the Baytril any longer, and earlier today she tried to eat the actual syringe- she wasn't for letting me have it back. In the spirit of enquiry I waved a spare, empty one under her nose and she grabbed that and started nibbling.
Is it possible for a Guinea pig to get addicted to syringe feeding?

To add to the confusion, I'm still hearing occasional yelps of pain when she's with Megan. Megan nips her or butts her when she wants space or is fed up of her company- normal Guinea Pig behaviour I know. The problem is, when Cleopatra does this to Nefertiti, the smaller pig takes the hint and legs it, or sometimes these days nips back and tries to stand up for herself. Freya just sits there and refuses to move. She squeals and yelps, she flinches and cowers, but she won't retaliate and she won't move. Megan gets frustrated and does it more, but Freya won't do more than huddle and whine. What concerns me more is that soon, once the Vet gives them the all-clear on saturday, I'll start introducing them to Cleopatra and Nefertiti.
Now Cleopatra is a moody, bossy little who refuses to share a hidey with Nefertiti and sends her scuttling for cover routinely. When she comes up against Freya's stubborn refusal to retreat or retaliate, I'm worried things are going to escalate pretty badly.
 
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First of all, thanks again to all the people who offered advice and good wishes. I have good news and bad news to report.

I took Freya to the vets today and she has a clean bill of health. Apart from some watery poos which are the after-effects of antibiotics, her snotty nose has cleaned up and she's eating, active and very noisy.

Unfortunately, her cage-mate Megan is dead.

Last night, when I picked Megan up I noticed her breathing sounded a little strange but didn't think anything of it as she appeared otherwise healthy. I hadn't seen her at all today, as she'd remained in her hidey with Freya, but when I went to pick them both up for the trip to the vet's this afternoon, I found her unusually docile. When I put her down in the box she just lay on her side for a moment, then crawled slowly under cover, almost as if her legs weren't working properly. I resolved to ask the Vet to check her over once Freya had been seen to.

Unfortunately, when I parked the car at the Vet's and checked on them both, I found Megan curled on her side with her legs stretched out, and Freya huddled next to her. She'd passed away some time during the journey.

I'm feeling pretty guilty about it- I was that fixated on Freya's health it didn't occur to me that Megan was less active than she should have been, and because I didn't see crusty fur around her nose and eyes (which had alerted me to Freya's condition), I assumed that she was OK. I didn't separate her from Freya during her illness because Freya seemed to need the company and I'd picked them up as a pair. The Vet thinks its likely that she picked up a respiratory infection from Freya which put pressure on her heart and carried her off.

The worst thing is that when I got back from the Vet's, Freya wandered round her cage wheeking, as if she was looking for her friend to cuddle up to again.
 
Oh dear that so sad.. Really feel for you what an awful thing to happen
 
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