Is it unfair on Pigpig?

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CobwebandPigpig

Hi there, this forum is very busy and I don't expect anyone to remember my previous posts so I'll quickly recap. I had a lone pig, Cobweb, and wanted to find him a friend as he seemed quite needy of our company. So I introduced a young boar, aged between 6 and 8 weeks and after a promising start it has really gone downhill; basically put them together and they fight.

Now, a bit more about Cobweb - when I first got him, he would have come with any boar siblings, but there was just him and some sisters. When I collected him the lady said to me "it's just as well he's on his own, that one doesn't like other pigs". I didn't really know her and wasn't sure if she was joking, but apparently she wasn't! Cobweb really seems to enjoy human company and is a bold, confident pig. He and Pigpig live in the same cage seperated by a wire 'fence' which seems to be okay. They do make chatting noises to each other but most of the time Cobweb rumbles at Pigpig.

A bit more aboout Pigpig now - he seems to be more needy of piggie company, despite the way Cobweb treats him he seems happier if he can see him and wheeks for Cobweb if we take him out of the cage by himself.

I am just really seeking some opinions - I do have room for another piggie, would it be kinder to Pigpig to match him up with a new piggie and let Cobweb have his own cage back, having both cages side-by-side so Cobweb can still see and chat to the other pigs? Would it just cause more trouble introducing a new piggie and shifting Cobweb back to his old cage?

I really worry for Pigpig - I got him purely as company for Cobweb and now he's stuck with a cagemate who has taken a dislike to him! I've been mulling it over and what I would do is take Pigpig to Thistle Cavies and try to let him pick his own new cagemate - either another boy or a neutured female if they had one. Pigpig could also be as old as 11 weeks by now, even though he's a small piggie, so he's also at a pretty awkward age. Should I wait for a bit?

As you can see, I'm fairly confused but I want to do the best thing for my piggies, and I do have time/space/money for another. Anyone who can venture any opinions or advice would receive giant thanks from me!

Thank you,
Ang x
 
That would be ideal, but I've only really got room for three - and I'm a bit wary of getting them neutured, I'd be scared for them and hubby would pass out at the cost!

Plus I suspect that Cobweb is 'just one of those pigs' and might not take a liking to another piggie, even if it is a girl!

Thanks, cavy :)
 
hmmm, I think I would go with getting a friend for pigpig then,taking him to Thistle cavies is a O0 idea.
 
Thanks, cavy - it's sort of a gut feeling that it would be kinder to Pigpig, because he does seem to be dependant on Cobweb's company and needs to know he's there. Whereas Cobweb couldn't care less whether Pigpig is there or not!

Thanks again, I was hoping someone with lots of piggies (as I know you do) would give me the confidence to make my decision.

Now just to persuade hubby to take a drive up to Perth.. ;D
 
I would only get another boar if you have room to seperate Pig Pig and the new one if it didn't work out (as with Cobweb). If you just get a sow for Pig Pig then it wouldn't be fair on Cobweb.
 
karenrgpr said:
If you just get a sow for Pig Pig then it wouldn't be fair on Cobweb.
Click to expand...

I did wonder about that.. Cobweb might be driven half-demented by the smell of the female, mightn't he? If it didn't work out with a new boar I would still have the means to use the divider method I'm currently using.

What about Pigpig's awkward age? Is it better to let him mature a bit before trying to match him up with a new friend?

Thanks, karen :)
 
Will Cobweb be on his own then or in the pen nextdoor? He should be where he can see another piggy really. I understand your dilemma but if you're going for a sow then I would put her in the pen nextdoor to PigPig.

I let my boars get over this age now before I match them, so many of the baby and adult pairings fell out after a few months or so. There's never any guarantee but I'm happier pairing adults. Other people use bathing etc but I haven't tried it. I had two litter brothers in the other wheek that needed splitting after two years of living happily together ::)
 
Cobweb would be in the pen next door so I'll not be getting a sow - I can't believe I never thought of the effect that would have
on Cobweb - I was just thinking of poor Pigpig!

I know there's no guarantees and that fighting can occur at any time with either sex - piggies, eh? ::)

I think I'll wait a bit - there's no point trying to match up a hormonal young pig at the moment, so I'm going to take your advice. In saying that (sorry if I'm being a pest!) what age are they when they get past all the teenage nonsense?

Thanks again, karen O0
 
Can anyone help? What age is a guinea pig generally past his 'teenage' phase? I'm really looking for a 'safe' age to attempt a possible pair-up.

Also, my husband is convinced I'm over-reacting - he has pointed out that even though Cobweb doesn't seem to like Pigpig, maybe Pigpig likes Cobweb just fine is is perfectly happy to live as he does now. Does he have a point?

I'm sorry if I'm being pushy but I'm really stressed over this - I really want Pigpig to be happy and I'm so upset to think that I've given him a life worse than if someone else had got him. :(
 
:) I would say around 6-8 months is safe.
If PigPig has company (which he does) then he's OK. Whilst it may not be ideal from your point of view, because you know there are other options, he is probably content. Difficult to say without seeing him :)

If they were mine then I would have them castrated to live with sows but they are not and they do not know that this is even an option, its not affecting their daily life :)

I would let things settle for a while or I can see you with 3 single pigs one of whom may be in a cage away from the others, of course PigPig may accept a boar and be happier for it- thats the decision you need to make. I would leave things as they are rather than get yet another boar, but thats just my opinion.

Guineas get used to the way they are kept to a certain degree) and providing they have the basics- which yours do (and probably more in your case :) ) then I wouldn't worry- but I know you will.

PigPig needs a Human that is not stressed too :)
 
Hi,

I would get another pig only if youcould house another seperatly if things go wrong. I would tell the rescue centre the situation, maybe they can come up with a solution perhaps fostering and see how they go.

Good luck,

Louise
:)
 
Yes good luck with whatever you decide. I had a similar dilema as Lennie, who was my first piggie and was used to being alone, didnt take to Timmy. I got Timmy at 6 weeks old as a cage mate for Lennie (Lennie was 6 months at the time) and Lennie just about tolerated him at first but once Timmy reached 3 months old, they had a massive falling out and they now live seperately but side by side. Timmy is such a moody bossy crazy pig that I fear he wouldnt get on with any other boar and Lennie is just happy doing his own thing. It is amazing how different they are. Had I been more patient and read more on this forum before jumping in to get a mate for Lennie, I would have gone to a rescue with Lennie to let him choose.....mind you even then, there are no guarantees :)
 
Thank you, karen - and thank you, Louise and LavenderJade :)

I'm sorry for being a bit (!) hyper - I know what set me off, I had them out for floor time last night and put them together, thinking that a lovely fresh corn on the cob would keep them occupied but instead Cobweb went for Pigpig, ruffling his fur but not hurting him. Pigpig seemed upset (so was I) and I picked him up for a cuddle and then pretty much started this thread inside my head before posting it here later!

You are right, karen, I'll try to calm down - the fact is that Pigpig has company, eats well (actually he eats more than Cobweb, who is a big lad!), has a very healthy appearance, is a playful, curious piggie who likes playing with his toys and is warming to his new mummy more and more every day. Both pigs are very much loved.

Cobweb is only a few days short of turning 8 months old himself - so a new piggie may well upset things even more. I will wait, and if I am still worried about it in 6 months time, will start looking into a third piggie. LavenderJade, I'll take the lesson of patience from you - Timmy sounds just like Cobweb! If I do decide to get a third pig then, I will definitely go to the Rescue - thanks, Louise.

Thanks again, karen, I know this might have seemed silly but I really got myself worked up about it - your kind advice has really reassured me and I'm starting to feel better already!

Thank you so much everyone who replied! :)
 
Just been reading through your thread.... gosh... what a dilemma! Dont blame you if youre feeling a bit confused. I wouldnt know what to do - especially as they are boars.

I can see the others point of view... I think getting a girly might 'ruffle up a few feathers'!.... plus the sow would get a bit stressed that the boys might be pestering her all the time. Not sure that getting a sow would be a good idea.

I'm not sure what you should do really cos I'm not very experienced... ummm - have they actually had any fights? Just wondered if it might be better if they do actually share the same space, now that Pigpig has been with you for a while. Maybe then cobweb can show he's the more dominent pig and establish a pecking order now... before Pigpig becomes an adult (when he might have more of a problem with Cobweb being the dominent one). 98)

Awww... really not sure... but your boys sound like my girls! Just that my girls are the same age and came to me at the same time. One likes human company (and piggy company but likes to be her own pig! Doesnt like cuddling up with the other) and the other definately prefers piggy company. They both miss each other even if they are split up only for a few seconds. Just one copes better than the other! ;) They've never done anything physical but on rare occasions it can get quite heated - teeth chattering, fluffed up neck...etc. Luckily though the less dominent one gets the message!

Sorry if I'm talking a load of rubbish, but I think maybe spending more 'boy' bonding time together might help - but I dont know! Even if its just for 10min floor time per day. They might stick together a bit more if they are in a more 'exposed' situation or if they are in an oudoor run. Just make sure they have their on little hidy hole each to go to.

Its worth a try I guess.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do O0
 
I think every1 feels like that when something happens with your piggies and you automatically asume that it's really bad and start to think how each pig must feel and this results in us being upset and the pigs not knowing whats going on lol! When really, all we are doing is putting human feelings to another species who probably don't think like us!I think your doing the right thing in waiting to see how pigpig gets on because as karen said he's probably content and happy how he is! But its ok 2 worry, coz everyone does it, it just shows how much you care that your pigs are happy! I'm sure both of your piggies have a much better life with you than they may have done if you hadn't got them! x
 
Oh no, do you think keeping them in the same cage with a divider fence is going to cause problems? :(

They have floor, cuddle and outdoor time together - there's usually been no more than rumbling and mounting before they go back to their 'seperate' quarters, but last night Cobweb really went for Pigpig, his short fur was really ruffled up and if I hadn't intervened so quickly I'm sure it would have gotten nasty. I'm too scared to let them fight - I don't want either piggie hurt; Cobweb is a big, mean guinea and Pigpig (to me) seems quite small for his age.

I'd thought that them living in the same cage with their own clear areas marked by the fence would be okay - looking at them now they're very relaxed and the rumbling from Cobweb in this situation is, when I think about it, lessening gradually since I seperated them a fortnight or so ago. I don't want fighting every time I bring them out, but it seems inevitable now as I've stupidly put poor Pigpig in this situation. :(
 
jnenbnb said:
When really, all we are doing is putting human feelings to another species who probably don't think like us!
Click to expand...

I suppose you're right! That's really perceptive of you. :)
 
I really do think you are doing the right thing so far, letting them fight would probably turn nasty but that wont happen if you are supervising them which you are doing when they are together and i think pigpig is probably happy just to see cobweb through the divider and know that another piggy is there, i think cobweb will soon understand that pigpig is going to stay there and he will just be happy that he still has his own space! And if the rumbling is getting less its probably a sign that they're getting used to this situation and putting a new pig in the mix may just upset everything, i'm no expert on guinea pigs but i think that you should just see how it goes and if pigpig starts to seem depressed in a few months time then you can take him 2 the rescue like you said and let him pick a friend! I hope everything turns out well, try not to worry too much :) and good luck with whatever you decide to do O0
Emma xxxxx
 
Sounds like you're doing the best thing for them then. I think living separately is fine and they both seem quite contented with that set up. I totally understand why you are scared.... its good that the rumbling is getting less - thats a good sign at least. Think cobwebs sounds like a stubborn little piggy - like - ''I was here first!''

I'm sure things will settle down - I think time is the best cure. You're not stupid at all, it shows you care about your pigs... cobweb is just being a grump! He'll get over his issues I'm sure. If not then they both seem happy with the general situation which is the main thing.

Sorry if I worred you more... ;D didnt mean to! Maybe if 'bonding' is out of the question, maybe mix up their used bedding a bit more so Pigpig can feel closer to Cobweb. 98) As I said before I really dont know... but please dont worry! They are happy and thats what counts.
 
Sorry, PiggyLoon, I didn't mean to re-freak out there and I really do appreciate being given ALL perspectives on this issue, so please don't apologise!

Cobweb being a grump is an understatement - I look at him sometimes and wonder if there's not a bit of Rottweiler in there someplace. The furball doesn't even sleep in his little cabin, he sleeps right out in the open and doesn't even flinch when the kids run past!

I think all I can do is keep an eye on Pigpig (I'm not favouring Cobweb, it's just that I know him better and I know he's fine) and give it time.

Thanks, PiggyLoon and thank you too, Emma, I really appreciate your posts!
 
Its a tricky thing knowing what to do - I keep Tiger and Jeremy in their own cages but next to each other so they can wheek and chirp and see each other, they also have playtime together which I supervise (apart from one incident last week when i nipped to the loo and they made a bid for freedom - OH found them in the kitchen sniffing for food probably, naughty boys!). They rumble and niggle at each other a bit when they are out together, but they've never bitten each other and seem to like exploring together. Its just I don't trust them 100% not to fight if they were in the same cage all the time.

We are going to try and find a little friend for baby Scruffy and see how that goes with them in the same cage.

I think you are probably right about Cobweb - it could be that he doesn't take to the company of other piggies, whereas Pigpig seems to like the company, so maybe getting a friend for Pigpig would be a solution. I have no idea which age is best to bond them - we thought that it would be best to try Scruffy with a friend ASAP while he is young but I don't know if thats better than waiting... sorry for rambling on a bit, try not to worry! Its good that Pigpig knows that Cobweb is next door, but that he can't fight with him. (I would worry about neutering in case something went wrong).
 
oh my goodness! Now you've got me worried cause we are almost at the stage of getting a piggie friend for John Anderson and I'm going to be going down the route of cage dividing if they don't get on.

I think thought you have to draw the line somewhere, cause you'll have 3 piggies, then have 4 and so on because there's not a definate that any piggies will get on with anyone LOL if that makes sense. Maybe take a step back and with each one think: is my piggie happy? cause I think that's the main thing. If both piggies are happy, then don't fix what aint broke. If cobweb is happy enough to know there's another piggie about but not in his face then that's good. If pigpig is happy to see cobweb through the divider then that's good, even if to his mind cobweb is a boring old grump :D If they are both happy, healthy piggies then they are fine :)

I know myself sicne getting John Anderson I seem to get a bee in my bonnet about something and gnaw at it like a dog with a bone until I sort it out in my head what I want to do. And since this guinea pig buisness is all new, it's hard to know what to do for the best.
We saw piggies in the petshop today and my hubby was all for buying one (and my 7yr old daughter sat on the floor in front of the cage saying she wasn't moving until we bought the ginger one ::) and I was no, we must talk about it first, ie lets go over and over all the things that could go wrong, how we split them up, etc etc but once I take a step back I usually find it's ok.

Take a breather, sleep on it and then take action if you still think you need to.
 
I think if he were in the wild Cobweb would be the dominant boar and have his sows and other non threatening boars around him, PigPig is possibly an underpig but given his age still a bit much of a threat to Cobweb :-\ Thing is, in the wild they would scrap and one would run away (what guineas do best) in captivity it amounts to little more than bullying (sorry Human word ::) ), we're left to determine who can live with who so they don't have to endure fights :)

Time to enjoy your guineas I think, its why you have them :) No you don't sound silly at all, its good that people ask :)
 
I think your best bet is to wait until after Christmas, when PigPig is eight months old or so & see how you feel then. O0

I'm sure them being in the same cage with the divider between them is the best option for them now as they can get up close if they want to but they can't hurt each other.

As you say, Cobweb is barely eight months old himself so he is only just reaching adulthood, so how things are once they both become adults. :)

I wouldn't go down the road of getting them neutered, I would be too worried about something going wrong even though many people here have had loads of piggies done without any problems what so ever.

Do try not to stress as I'm sure they can sense your mood so if your happy & chilled that will help them to chill too 8)
 
Thank you, Katie, I suppose we are in similar situations with our boys so it was nice to read your post :)

Fay, I'm sorry if this post is stressing you out! I know EXACTLY what it's like, I've little guinea experience too and you're probably just like me and want everything just so, worrying about seemingly daft things. Every piggie is different, and so your pairing up story will most likely be very different from mine.

Thank you, Sian - that's exactly what I'm going to do! It's nice to know what I'm doing right now is 'okay', if you know what I mean. :)

Karen, thank you so much again, I am so grateful for this forum and that there are piggie people around that I can freak out at! Everyone has been so understanding and patient with me. I will definitely not be getting another piggie for now and will continue to use the same sort of playtime/caging methods as Katie has been using too. Must relax...!

Thank you! ;D
 
Its down to the individual piggies personalities, just because cobweb doesnt get on with pigpig, does not have to mean he shoudl spend his life alone.

We have a boar Harry, pretty much cobweb in different fur...it was impossible to bond him with any boar at all...so we let him live alone...after a while I just felt so so bad, as he was making what I know as the 'lonely noise' so we decided to bite the bullet and get him neutered..

We did that, and all went will with the op, but trying to puit him with a sow ended up being nearly as bad...hes just tooooo dominent to ever actually share living space with another guinea. Full stop. So now his has his bachelor pad and lives next door to 2 bonded boars...he wanders up to the side of the cage to have a sniff wwhen hes feeling sociable, but hes much happier by himself!

Saying this, I dont not regret getting him neutered one bit...hes our pet so its our responsibility to make sure he gets the best life possible....we still let him in the run with the girls, which he is fine with, apart from being a bit of a sexual deviant, and I hope that little by little, he will take a liking to a girl who is a match, and then he can have a wife...

Its a long, hard process with boars like Harry and Cobweb, but its upto you as his mum to try and find the solution....do they have run time together? did you meet them in a neutral area? Have you tried everything you possibly can to get them to accept eachother?

It is hard work, and if its too much, dont be afraid to say! I dont trust paired boars, and never will (MEN! ::) ;D ), and I will ALWAYS favor getting them neutered and living with a lady or two!

I think maybe getting pigpig a new home, and cobweb the op and a girlfriend would be the next best option if you cant neuter them both :)

I just dont like the idea of them living seperatly with a divide tbh, unless that was the absolute only option, as they are happier in pairs, and i dont think thats fair to pigpig, who could thrive having company!
 
Hi Cherry ;D

I followed the advice from Barmy4Boars website, I was very careful about that as I wanted to do everything right. After reviewing this post and everyone's advice, I do think they are best left as they are at the moment. They are in a big cage together and the divider is actually 'bars', so they can see, hear, smell and chat together still, it's not a complete divider. They can always see each other and sometimes lie together so they can have the warmth of another piggie body if they want it. And they do get supervised play time together - I will definitely be very vigilant from now on due to the 'tussle' last night!
 
If it helps we have been in a similar situation. Although I agree that it's better to have at least pairs, sometimes I really don't believe it's always going to happen. We have a tentative pairing with two of ours, and to be honest even though there has been no fighting, I'm prepared to put a divider up. When two of ours fell out we put a divider between them and they loved to snuggle up and chatted all the time but trying to re-bond them, no way, it just wasn't happening. As long as they seem happy and healthy (we have had two sets of two seperated boys and they're always rumbling and popcorning through the dividers!) I don't see a problem with a divider, as long as they have enough space, but that's just my own opinion :)

But it's very easy to be stressed, most of us know the feeling well! At the end of the day we all want the best for our piggies. There is some good advice / opinions on this thread, when you feel calmer, have another read through and come to your own conclusions and don't rush into any decisions.

Love the names of your piggies btw! ;)
 
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