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kidney stones help please

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maisieandcoco

hello i took Maisie to the vets today as she has lost weight recently and looks miserable.She also drools a lot and does not seem to be able to eat well. Anyway she ended up getting her teeth filed xoxo under anesthetic and a few x rays. The vet seems to think it could be kidney stones? She has anti bs and pain killers and its a case of wait and see. If it is stones - I am told there is not much we can do. An expensive day for me .....£80........still really worried though. any help would be appreciated. thankshttp://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/images/smilies/import/a29.gif
 
I am very sorry for the bad news! It is so gutting when you piggy comes back with a diagnosis like that!

I haven't got any personal experience with kidney stones; they are far rarer than bladder stones and cannot be operated on, unlike bladder stones, I think.

This is the very scant information I have found on kidney stones on Guinea Lynx: http://www.guinealynx.info/stones.html

And this from Peter Gurney: http://www.oginet.com/pgurney/kidneys.htm
However, Peter Gurney talks mainly about bladder stones, too.
 
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I'm sorry to hear about Maisie's possible diagnosis.

However - if it is kidney stones - they should be visible on the X ray. The "Wait and See" approach sounds to me like the vet is unsure and it may be that having her teeth done will sort the problem.

You may need to go back for another X ray in which case ask the vet to check there are no stones in either the utreter or the urethra

I have had a piggie with an advanced case of kidney stones and, even though as Wiebke says, the condition is inoperable - just as with heart pigs, the condition can be managed with an appropriate care plan and Fleure enjoyed many happy piggy years with her mate Grommie following her diagnosis


Unlike other recommendations to use fruseamide or other diuretics to flush out the kidneys and hopefully flush the odd small stone right out through the system - we decided against this because the stones were too large to enter the ureters from the kidneys and therefore in Fleure's case it might have accelerated kidney failure.

We tested a stone taken from the urethra, found it to be carbonate and tried destolit as per guinea lynx
http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1235538


The care plan would include alleviating the symptoms (pain) and also looking into changing her diet to slow down the rate of formation (see other threads on Ca/Phosphorous ratio). It also might also be worth discussing destolit with your vet - print out the pages on guinea lynx and also this post if it helps in approaching your vet.

I'm very happy to talk further with either you or your vet if required although at the moment we are keeping all fingers and paws crossed here it is just Maisie's teeth.

x
 
Welcome to the forum maisieandcoco, I am sorry for your guineas problems.

I agree with everything Pebble has highlighted - incidentally I've learnt a lot from her response too (that link especially is helpful Pebble). :)

Best of luck to Maisie, do keep us updated on her condition. xx
 
Hi
Sorry to hear about Maisie, my last Guinea had kidney stones which were clear on an xray, so if they didn't see them hopefully it isn't as bad as first thought. I was given many medications from the vets, but the most successful thing that we found was Chanca Piedra which we used to give to Charlie every day. The vet reckons that Charlie got an extra year of very comfortable happy life because of this. I got the Chanca from Galens garden but I had to have confirmation from the vet before they would sell it to me. http://www.galensgarden.co.uk/herbivores/health/calculus.php
sorry all new to messaging and don't know how to make it a link.

Good luck and lots of hug to Maisie.
 
kidney stones ....maisie not getting any better

Hello to all . Many thanks for all your replies but I have a feeling Maisie will not be with us for much longer. I have been giving her anti bs and pain killers and syringe fulls of recovery green sludge stuff and she just looks totally miserable. she has lost lots of weight and I think if I stopped it all ....she would pass away pretty quickly. Really unhappy but she is not the same squeeky happy piggie she used to be. Really ****** off as this is my second pig this year that has got ill. Last one had bad stomach upset and just couldnt get over it. It seems to me that once they get ill....they just die!hmmmmm. x
 
I am sorry; it is heart breaking when a piggy is getting worse despite your best efforts. I hope that Maisie can make it nevertheless.
 
Sorry to hear about poor Maisie,

One of my guinea pigs has been diagnosed with Kidney stones for about a year now. We've had to change his diet completely.

His stones also showed up on the x-rays as well as everyone's else's test results.

You said that your vet gave you some recovery green sludge stuff for Maisie to eat. Just out of curiosity, what is that stuff called?

I hope she's doing better soon...
 
The stuff he gave me was recovery liquid feed as she has lost a lot of weight. Since you found out your piggie has stones - has she not gone off her food etc? maisie can hardly eat a thing. its awful!
 
Oh I;m so sorry to hear this.

If Maisie is still off her food then that is possibly because she in still pain. Pigs with kidney stones only go off their food if they are in pain - (unless they are in end stage kindey failure but from your case if the stones weren;t obvious enough on X ray for your vet to give a defnitiive diagnosis then that is not the case with Maisie.)

Regardless of whether it is the dental of kidney stones - it sounds like She is still in pain - and as you say in an earlier post you are giving her something......... What is it, what is the dose and how frequently? How much does she weigh? Some vets are very cautious about metacam dosages....becasue they don;t have the experience. Others will recommend twice the dose!.

If you are giving her metacam - try splitting dose in half and administering every 12 hours.

Is she poohing and weeing OK? How much weight has she lost over what time period?

It's only been 4 days since you starterd the thread - please stay strong - it can be a long haul with some piggies. I normally have to intensively care for a piggie for at least 7 days post op if they don;t recover immediately. Please persevere and get as much Recovery down her as you can - 3-5ml every 3 hours - it's called force feeding for a reason and it saps your energy and can be very distressing!.

Big hugs and wheeks to you and Maisie
I dont know whereabouts in the country you are - but if you are south of Nottingham I will glady come and help.

x
 
maisieandcoco said:
The stuff he gave me was recovery liquid feed as she has lost a lot of weight. Since you found out your piggie has stones - has she not gone off her food etc? maisie can hardly eat a thing. its awful!
Click to expand...

Yes Sylvester, (the little black n white guy on the right of my avatar) did stop eating. But my vet said to try and ground some Oxbow Cavy Cuisine pellets first, and syringe feed him that. If he was still not eating, then she would give me some critical care stuff for him. Thankfully he started eating when I syringe fed him, his normal pellets.

He was prescribed an AB, I think it was Bactrim, but not possitive. I do remember that it was the pink liquid stuff. He was also prescribed Metacam, but the dose was only once per day. That was not enough, because he was still in pain. I told our vet, and she was hesitant to give him more, or even change the schedule of the painkiller.

He did lose weight, which made me worry, because he's my smallest guinea pig on a normal day. But after a few days, things slowly started to get better for him.

Hang in there Maisie!
 
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hello thankks for all of your good advice. Maisie is a little brighter today. eating a bit but not much. The vet gave her Baytril 0.26ml twice a day and meloxidyl 0.08ml once a day. I had a feeling that every time i gave ger baytril she just went in her bed and looked awful so last night i stopped it (not sure i should have) and i have not given it to her today either. i am sure thats why she is brighter today. she is still skinny but will keep feeding her with recovery for now. BUT .....if she has stones ....which my vet is pretty sure of......then its just putting off what is going to happen anyway! i might try a herbal remedy to disolve stones. last resort really as vet seems to think there is nothing you can do for stones. hmmmm. x
 
I do hope that the herbal remedy works and that you can pull Maisie through.
 
maisieandcoco said:
The vet gave her Baytril 0.26ml twice a day.

I had a feeling that every time i gave ger baytril she just went in her bed and looked awful so last night i stopped it (not sure i should have) and i have not given it to her today either. i am sure thats why she is brighter today.
Click to expand...

I haven't had alot of experience using Baytril, but maybe someone with alot more experience than me will come on here. But from what little I do know, is that Baytril is a great AB, but it does affect their little appetites. So maybe now that you've stopped it, maybe little Maisie will start to eat better for you.

I found with Sylvester that it's definately a life long illness that we have to work with. He gets better for awhile, then something happens and he gets worse. He was diagnosed last summer, and we've had 2 rounds of him being sick. He's feeling good these days, and I am thankful.

I hope Maisie will start feeling better soon! Poor girl!
 
Baytril can cause digestive upsets, yes. The use of a probiotic given 1-2 hours after the antibiotic can help lessen the impact of the drug on the gut, but some pigs are completely intolerant of Baytril despite probiotics and completely go off their food and can have diarrhoea - or the opposite problem, a lack of poops altogether (in relation to not eating).

The dosage of Meloxidyl sounds very low, I believe it should be dosed at the same level as dog strength Metacam - which is up to 0.3ml twice daily. The most common dosage to start with is 0.1ml twice daily, so a slightly higher dose than you are giving now, and repeated again in the evening.

I hope Maisie continues to brighten up. xx
 
rachan said:
Hi
.I was given many medications from the vets, but the most successful thing that we found was Chanca Piedra

hi there i have bought some chanca piedra - well its a mix from galens garden. its got 20% chanca in it. is that the same mix that you used. started it today so fingers crossed. How much did you use per day? and how did you give it to your piggie? maisie is a bit brighter tonight so fingers crossed.xx
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How is Maisie today?
I have attempted to reply to you and lost it so if you find my response twice, I'm sorry.
Unfortunately it is a couple of years since I used the chanca mix, and i can't remember how much I used, I think it was a large pinch a couple of times a day but I couldn't be sure. I spoke to a lady at galans and she recommended the amount, initially I was cautious and started with a smaller dose then, when I was sure that it was okay, i increased it it to the recommended amount. I syringe fed it to charlie mixed in a small amount of water. I also, at the beginning when he was feeling so awful, syringe fed him critical care food and bio lapis( a probiotic). I have a guinea on Baytril at the moment, 1ml per day, and she lost her appetite so the vet gave her a vit B injection to improve her appetite.
Where do you live?
 
thanks for your reply. I live in Fife Scotland so a wee bit away from you! I seem to be doing ok at the moment and maisie has put on some weight and is a bit brighter. So your piggie ....Did the powder from galens get rid of the stone or just help her feel better? Was your pig ill until she died or was she pretty much back to normal for a while? Its just that I don't want to put off what is eventually going to happen anyway! I don't want her to be miserable....If you know what i mean! x
 
Hi,
The powder is supposed to actually dissolve/ break up the stones. My piggie was a boy which apparently makes it harder for them to recover from the stones. His stones were also large by the time they were found. He improved so much that you wouldn't have known that he had any stones. He lived a totally normal life for more than a year, maybe nearer 2 years. It was really worth persevering. I didn't have him x rayed again to see what was happening to his stones because he was so well I felt it was better not to stress him unnecessarily. If the Baytril is is worrying you, you could ask to try a different AB, Charlie had to have a couple of different ABs before we found one that suited. I'm sorry I can't remember what the others were.
Are you syringe feeding Maisie and giving her probiotics?
I hope Maisie feels better soon.

Rachael and Tigger
 
hi there i am so sorry for not replying as i have been in france for two weeks. My mum took maisie and looked after her and she seemed to be on the up. BUT ....I got her home today and i dont think she is looking that great. She has lost more weight. 60g and she now is starting to lose some of her hair in patches. However my mum gave up on the pain killers and powder etc after a week as she seemed to improve so much. so i have started all that again. I kind of feel I am just putting off the inevitable really .....will persevere for now.......
oh and she does not get anti bs anymore ...only meloxydl...pain killer.thanks for asking about her. very kind of you!
 
Hi,
I am sorry to hear that Maisie isn't well at the moment, hopefully when she is back on the painkillers and powder you will see an improvement. maybe give her some critical care recovery food, she may have been lost the weight because she has been pain. try giving her some metatone tonic to give her a boost, she may not have been getting everything she needs recently due to her loss of appetite, they don't eat when they are in pain.

I hope she recovers, sending you positive vibes and hugs for Maisie.

Rachael and Tigger.
 
hi there. I have never heard of metatone....will give it a go! Maisie has once again perked up and put on a little weight. I am sure she must have been in pain poor thing. I give her pain killers twice a day as well as powder and she is eating well again. So all is ok for now. great stuff!
 
Metatone is a tonic. You can buy it from the chemists, Boots, Superdrug etc.
I've used it for all my family when they were getting over any illness or in need of a boost. I swear by it.
Snuggles to Maisie. x>>
 
Following a tip from this site I got some Chanca Plus powder from Galen's Garden for my female guinea pig, age 5 years 2 months - she had had an x-ray which almost certainly showed two kidney stones, and I'd been told they were inoperable (which is probably right). I mixed the powder with some cranberry juice and she's had that twice a day for the last 9 days and she really seems to have improved. A week ago she was barely eating and there was blood in her urine. Now she's prancing around with the other guinea pigs looking cheerful and eating better every day. It would be interesting to x-ray her again to see if the stones are the same, but I don't want to subject her to another anaesthetic. So far, so good for the Chanca Plus!
 
Chanca piedra dosage

Hi there,


Hope you are doing well.
I've got one of my females guinea pig that suffers from kidney stones.The vet has confirmed the diagnosis in February.(x-ray). She is 4 years old and we can't afford the surgery, but we try everything possible to avoid pain and give her a good life..
She eats and drink very well, but there is blood in her urine, and she is squealing when peeing. Recently I recently get back to the vet and she gave me some antibiotic and Anti-inflammatory. She seems to suffer less.
We also start 3 weeks ago a chanca piedra treatment, around 2.25 mg by day. It works very well at the beginning (no blood anynore).
Now, there is blood again and I wonder if we give her enough Chanca piedra.
Do you have any idea about the dosage ? We use chanca piedra capsules diluted in water and we give her directly in one ml of water.
I also heard that limewood can help ?
Thanks in advance for you help.

Have a great day.
 
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