Low Urine & Fecal Output

[Bia]

Hi guys,

It goes like this: my piggy's urine output has started to decrease over the past 30 hours and so did the fecal output. He has also started to show a lower interest in food and our small animal specialist is out of town till Tuesday (and he's the only one in town).

Took him to one vet yesterday evening, he had a full bladder and 36.3 C body temperature. He did wee-wee somewhat over night and ate a bit in the morning. Took him to another vet today, his bladder was empty. No stones/ deposits were visible and I was told he probably had cystitis. He doesn't have a tense abdomen or overgrown teeth....He was given a course of antibiotics and vitamins (injections). Brought him home, he just nibbled a little on a lettuce leaf.

Right now he's scared (the injections plus my reckless driving to the vet's) and sad, oinked a bit and purred (also a bit) when I patted him.

I tried to do some research on-line but found nothing trust-worthy. Any ideas regarding what it could be? Anything I can do myself to help him till the good vet comes back?

Thank you!

PS: He's 3 and 3 months old.

 

[1GuineaPig1]

I'm so sorry about this. I'm not sure what it could be, but just try to help your boy have as little pain as possible.
To do this, try to push the timothy hay (If he'll eat it) and make sure he is drinking enough water. Pay attention to him as much as possible until the specialist returns. Again, so sorry. Sending healing vibes.

 

[sport_billy]

Was he xrayed to check for stones?

If the vet is thinking a UTI then I would expect a course of antibiotics at home such as septrin and pain relief/anti inflammatory metacam as this will reduce inflammation in the bladder and help with the pain.

 

[Bia]

Yes, he was. The vet didn't see any stones so he said cystitis and put the little fellow on subcutaneous antibiotics (don't ask which as I didn't catch the name) and vitamins. Not anti-inflammatory was given though. The vet asked whether I wanted to go with pills or shots as far as the treatment is concerned and I chose the shots.... I'll ask tomorrow about the name of the medicine....

The little one ate a little more (lettuce,cucumber and plum) and I managed to give him some water with a syringe. He also peed and pooped (not very much though). After reading around, I'm thinking of a bit of diuretic tea (for infants).... Do you think that's a good idea?

Thank you both for your answers and encouragements.

 

[sport_billy]

When you see the vet tomorrow, please enquire about metacam, you get it in liquid form and can give it at home form a 1ml syringe... This may make the world of difference to him.

I would advise giving him some extra wet veg or if he happily will drink form syringe extra water as you are doing. Please let us know the name of the antibiotic he is being given when you find out.
Lots of healing vibes to your little one

 

[Bia]

Update:

Gogu (the little one) started pooing and peeing, a little better than yesterday, but still eats very little (a few bites of lettuce, a few of cucumber and some straws of hay), so he's on syringe mashed pallets and water mixed with linden tea (he refuses plain water, he's never been a keen drinker, so I add a few drops of tea to the water so that I make him accept it).

Took him to the vet again, he's on Enrofloxacin (Baytril). He also got vitamins again and two shots of serum something for re-hydration (I read the name on the bottle, but when I saw him crying while getting the shots, I forgot everything) and appetite stimulation. He's scheduled for an ultrasound tomorrow morning at 10.

The vet said that improvement should show after the second shot of antibiotics and said that he is against anti-inflammatory drugs given the fact that we have no certainty regarding a possible kidney problem and we shouldn't take any risks.

When I got Gogu home, he went straight to the hay and ate a few straws and afterwards had almost two syringes (around 8 to 9 ml) of mashed pallets and he was quite keen on eating from the syringe.... so I really don't know what to think. He's teeth are not overgrown... but still, I'm starting to reconsider this whole peeing issue as it might not actually be the cause, but the effect....cause otherwise, he should refuse food and water....

Could it be that he can not chew food?

 

[Wiebke]

Please hand feed and hydrate Gogu to keep the guts going and to keep him topped up. Weigh him daily at the same time to control the food intake and make sure that he is getting enough. Please also syringe him water, several times daily, as much as he will take. Many general vets are not quite aware how important it is to keep guinea pigs' fed regularly, as they have a much higher metabolism than say cats and dogs but a comparatively nutrionally poor diet. Would your vet consider a conscious x-ray? Most guinea pigs will sit or lie still in an unfamiliar situation (playing dead) due to their rpey animals reflexes.

Low output of poo and pee usually means that nothing has gone in. Could a scan bring some help re. finding out what is causing the loss appetite and thirst. It is often a pain issue.

You may find our guide helpful.
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/complete-hand-feeding-guide.115359/

 

[Bia]

It goes like this: after force feeding and watering, he's peeing and pooping (less than usual but still). He lost 53 grams..... so he also got an ultra sound today also and all his internal organs are perfect, no tumors, no lumps, no blockage, no stones, no deposits, no nothing.

Yesterday evening I have him Meloxicam and expected an improvement.... nothing though...And since the antibiotics and vitamins he got from the compromise vet led to no improvement and I noticed his interest in food, I started researching and it all made sense.

A few weeks back we noticed his right eye was a bit teary and crusty, but of course, both my dad and I blamed it on my mom for having cooked with the window wide open. The vet performed a lesion test, found nothing and given the fact that he had a good appetite and healthy weight, he said it was probably draft. Despite the topic treatment and moving Gogu further away from any windows, the improvement was minor.

Only today did my dad actually tell me that his appetite started decreasing and nothing was actually sudden (Gogu lives with my parents).... So I ended up contacting the good vet on Facebook and after some brainstorming we came up with malocclusion.

It's just that the vet is gonna be back in town on Wednesday.... in the meanwhile, he's still on vitamins and pureed veggies.... the picks food on his own too, but after a bit of nibbling he drops it. He simply seems unable to eat it.

So on Wednesday he's scheduled for another x-ray, another ultrasound, some blood work and dentistry. But I'm soooo confident!

 

[Wiebke]

I hope that you have found out what the problem is.

Please make sure that 80% of his food intake is fibre and only up to 20% is vegetables to keep the guts balanced. The link in our hand feeding guide (see my previous post) also contains a section on how much to feed dental piggies.

Please be aware that it is usual the pre-molars that overgrow and that often just one round of treatment is not enough. Guinea pigs after dental treatment will still need hand feeding and painkillers for some time. Is the vet you are using familiar with treating rodent teeth?

@furryfriends Excellent Adventure Sanctuary

 

[Bia]

Truth be said, I really don't know. Let me put it this way: I live in a part of the world where a common back pain (given by... I don't know, lifting something heavy) can be mistaken for a kidney problem (in humans), where you break your right leg and come back from surgery only to find out that your left leg was actually operated.

About 7 years back I had my first guinea with abscesses and all the vets in town said it was a tumor and that he was going to die so any effort would have been in vain. This guy I am so hopeful about was in his late twenties back then, freshly out of vet school, and he was the only one who actually listened and managed to save my guinea (who eventually died of old age - 6 yrs and 4 months).

We really lack veterinary specialists here: 3 years ago my mother's in law cat had open pyometra and with this guy out of town (he has another practice together with his brother in the capital, about 250 km away) all veterinarians we took her to couldn't diagnose the disease even with ultrasound. So I ended up calling him, just like in this case, explained my presumptions and he saved the cat the following day when he came back.... (she was in a very poor condition, everything was going on for over a week and she was almost septic).

So this is actually the best chance I've got. I know that everyone hates the owners who pre-diagnose their pets and presume they are right although they hold no formal training in this field... but I have learned that I have to read, research and take my chances cause otherwise lots of little lives would end up being lost.

I know all this might sound stupid and unwise of me, but there really are no alternatives. If I keep doing what I've already done, Gogu is surely on the path to nowhere.

 

[Wiebke]

@Bia , I am well aware of the issues with your location (you are not the Romanian forum member) and I really feel for you! I've grown up with guinea pigs and remember how minimal things were in the early days back in the seventies and eighties...

I am keeping my fingers firmly crossed for Gogu!

If your vet finds that it is a dental problem (an x-ray should provide clarity) and is prepared to speak/email a vet who is very experienced in dentals for guinea pigs, please give him this contact here. Vet Simon Maddock is fine with providing advice. He is looking after the guinea pigs that are in the pioneering Excellent Adventure Sanctuary that specialises in caring for guinea pigs with temporary or chromic dental problems, as even here in Britain, most vets are not practised with small animal dentals and struggle. http://www.catandrabbit.co.uk/

Baytril is an appetite suppressant, unfortunately. Is the crustiness from watering eyes or is thick dried mucus?

 

[Bia]

I will definitely tell my vet about your recommendation. As far as the crustiness is concerned... it's not really crustiness, I don't know how to explain. One of his eyes was a bit watery in the lower corner of the eye, nothing more, nothing less. That watery discharge dries and remains, as big as two grains of sand, in the corner of his eyes.

Thank you again for all your support. It's very frustrating for me, especially since at some point in my life I was really considering veterinary school.

 

[Wiebke]

I will definitely tell my vet about your recommendation. As far as the crustiness is concerned... it's not really crustiness, I don't know how to explain. One of his eyes was a bit watery in the lower corner of the eye, nothing more, nothing less. That watery discharge dries and remains, as big as two grains of sand, in the corner of his eyes.

Thank you again for all your support. It's very frustrating for me, especially since at some point in my life I was really considering veterinary school.

You can still go to veterinary school and then try to work abroad for a few years to learn further and get much more experience in various specialities like small animals.
Here in my city of Coventry, we now have vets from all kinds of places, Poland, Eastern Europe, Spain...
PS: Your English is excellent, by the way!

 

[Bia]

He only ate a bit today, he's not better but not worse. Besides malocclusion, are there any other mouth- related problems that could make it impossible for him to eat?

You got me worried about the idea of a dental...

 

[7squeakers.]

Is Gogu drinking from a water bottle with a long metal spout? Sometimes, piggies can take this spout right down into the throat and it can cause problems there.
I don't think there is much that can be done in that case, unfortunately. I had a piggie who developed a throat problem in that way. I had her put to sleep, rather than put her through difficult surgery.

 

[Wiebke]

He only ate a bit today, he's not better but not worse. Besides malocclusion, are there any other mouth- related problems that could make it impossible for him to eat?

You got me worried about the idea of a dental...

Please hand feed, if not much will go in, you have to feed little but often around the clock. Have you got pellets that you can mix with boiled, cooled water? It is very important to keep the guts from closing down.
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/complete-hand-feeding-guide.115359/

Fungal in the mouth/throat area can sometimes also be a problem; in that case a systemic fungal like itraconazole is the best way to clear it up.

 

[Bia]

He's being fed every 2 to 3 hours depending on how much he wanted to take the last time: mashed veggies and his average pallets - Versele Laga (which we soak and mash or grind when dry and add water). There are no better pallets available....

 

[Bia]

No, he actually doesn't drink much, if at all (we got him as a very young pup, tried to teach him but with no success). He does have his water bottle cleaned daily ant it is intact....

 

[Bia]

Update:

Gogu was taken to the good vet today, another x-ray, another ultrasound and round of blood work. There was nothing wrong with any of his organs, no kidney problems and my assumptions were right, he was suffering from malocclusion, a severe case of malocclusion (according to my mom who went in with him). He's teeth almost covered his tongue.

The vet had to give him anesthesia, because everything was very difficult to solve, but managed in close to two hours. The vet also found one week old food in his pouches (Gogu hasn't had any apple since last Wednesday, but yet he had apple bits in his pouches) and said that the Baytril and vitamins he got from the other vet saved his life life, preventing an infection and abscesses (due to the rotten food).

I was really afraid he wouldn't wake up, we covered him in towels and kept him warm with a heater and some water bottles, he had tears running down at some point, but he came around, even tried a bit of dill besides the mashed pumpkin my mom is force feeding him.

He's still kinda sleepy (exhausted), only lays completely down when he's being held on his pillow with the pillow on my mom's lap and my mom's hand on his back, but is quite alert and even licked my hand (and I'm not his favorite person since I am the only one clipping his nails).

He's going back to the vet's tomorrow for a check-up, another shot of antibiotics and some vitamins.

Still, I'm worried about the side effects of the anesthesia... He had it at 10:30 this morning.... any one has any idea whether something could go wrong from here on?

Thank you again!

 

[Wiebke]

Please hand feed him, little but often throughout the night and also give him as much water as possible; the more you get into him the better. Dental piggies don't eat by themselves immediately after treatment. Your determined hand feeding care is as important as the vet's work and it is your hand feeding care that is going to keep him alive in the coming days. It is really as vital as that!
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/complete-hand-feeding-guide.115359/

His mouth will be very sore and the effects of the anaesthesia can take some time to clear. Have you got painkiller for him?

@furryfriends Excellent Adventure Sanctuary

 

[Bia]

Yes, he did give him something (my mom doesn't really remember the name) but didn't want to give us anything at home in order to avoid an overdose (and the only meloxicam I could find is a 75 mg pill. A pharmacist friend of mine helped me divide a piece of it so that I gave him 0,2 mg but just for one dose and I don't really want to experiment on him without a pharmacy scale - my fiend is a new mom and I simply can't keep on insisting with her to take trips back and forth to her work place).

 

[Bia]

He's very sad, sits all puffed up and doesn't really want to eat too much, he's bit better than before the dental, but not better than yesterday. I really don't know what to do.

He went to the vet again today, he said he looks better and gave him a shot of painkiller, but again refused to give us anything for home, so I bought some Ibuprofen, the baby kind.

It contains 100 mg of ibuprofen per 5 ml of syrup and also sodium benzoate, sorbitol and saccharin . Any ideas on the dosage and administration frequency? Is it bad for him? I really feel i'm losing him.....

 

[Wiebke]

I am very sorry; all you can do is try and give him a chance! It is very important that you continue to hand feed him as much as you can, every milliliter that goes in can make the difference.

Not sure about the ibuprofen for guinea pigs. @Elwickcavies

 

[Lilly]

So sorry about little Gogu. We use ibuprofen here for pain & anti-inflammatory until we can get metacam from the vet. We buy the chilldren's 1-5yrs 100mg per 5ml oral suspension, which sounds like what you have. Then we syringe .2ml twice daily for an adult piggy. Make sure that it is at least 24 hours after any other pain med before you start giving the ibuprofen.

 

[Bia]

Thank you guys! I didn't give him any ibuprofen in the end because I wasn't really sure what the vet gave him and the last thing I want is to do more harm.

Managed to solve the not eating issue though and the hunched- back position. He's all bald on his belly from the ultrasound and noticed that the bedding (wood shavings) probably tickle him on that area so I also put a mini-towel in his cage on which he seemed to sit more comfortably and also made a hutch for him from an old towel (we took everything else out at the vet's recommendation, namely his wooden hutch, so he was left with no place to hide, just open space).

As far as the food is concerned, when I tried feeding him he was all fussy and pushed and turned but tried to grab at a piece of lettuce leaf and also tried to nip me while I was force feeding him (ergo... his pain must have gone down). Since he couldn't eat the piece of leaf, we pureed some for him, he sensed the smell and reached out for the syringe but refused when I wanted to give it to him. We used to feed him by lifting his front paws while his hind paws rested on our lap. So I tried something else: allowed him to simply lay down on my lap facing me (we put him on a square pillow, the kind that is used for garden chairs), I lifted the side of his lip just enough to make some space for the tip of the syringe and voila! I fed him close to 4 ml of puree at once, while before we could barely manage half of that using the holding him up method.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.... especially since when I brought him to the living room sat him on one end of the couch (the couch is usually his quality time with my dad, every evening) while my dad sat at the other end and Gogu eagerly walked to my father and jumped on his lap (he hasn't done this in more than a week), after sniffing around for a bit (the remotes, a cellphone, the tablet).

 

[Elwickcavies]

It's sounding promising. It's good that you have found a way to syringe feed him that is working for you and he does seem to be perking up. Keep up the good work, you're doing a great job. Lilly's advice on the ibuprofen is exactly what I would recommend too, until you can get some metacam. Sending healing vibes! x

 

[Bia]

It's daily visits to the vet's nowadays. Not only is he not better, he seems to be worse. Hasn't pooped or pied since yesterday, so he's back on vitamins and sub q fluids and antibiotic, besides his painkiller, he's all cranky and fussy, obviously in distress, hasn't lost any more weight but still refuses to eat... I'm totally out of ideas and hopes....

 

[Bia]

Gogu update:

Still no eating, just sniffing the food and no improvement at all. He also started choking with food, no matter how little, slow and in what position we give it to him. As I have said in an earlier post, we feed him while he sits on his belly and still the chokes. He had such a bad episode today after coming from the vet, that I really thought we were losing him....

As terrible as it may sound, I think there is no other alternative....

 

[Bia]

Things took a turn for the worse. Besides the fact that he almost totally started to refuse food, he also started to repeatedly choke with food. At first we though we had done something wrong, but eventually everything we managed to get into him came out through his nose, even when the vet fed him... In the end he was so exhausted to the point he just sat in a question mark position.... So we took the horrible decision on Sunday...., the most difficult decision I have ever made... At least I know that he is peaceful in his happy place.

Also, the vet discovered there was a growth in his throat....

 

[helen105281]

I'm so sorry. Night night Gogu.