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Lymphoma last days now

Fluffbabies

Fluffbabies

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi everyone, it's day 12 since Ginger's lymphoma diagnosis. Thank you for all your support on my diagnosis thread. I wanted to start a new one because I need some advice!

I was just saying yesterday how well she's doing. She has been happy, excited for food, eating/drinking lots and exploring/destroying things. It was easy to forget how ill she was.

We've been weighing morning and evening at her med times. Her weight's been steadily within 1090-1110g this whole time.
Yesterday it was 1066g in the morning but we weighed again in the evening and it was 1090g so I wasn't too worried.
I just weighed her this morning and couldn't believe my eyes.. she's just 1015g which is the weight of our smallest piggy. This is almost 100g less than her most common 1111g weigh-in.

Putting aside the panic and returning grief... what do I do?
She seems happy, she's been chewing their cardboard house and was excited for salad. She nommed on it quickly although I realise not for long. Usually it's until it's all gone :(
As she's end of life, do I syringe feed at all because she's bright and happy at the moment to support her for a couple of days? Or do I leave her to drop weight and let nature run it's course? I don't want to force her to stay but don't want to do nothing if some syringe feeding will help her live better while she's here. I know I could try to syringe feed and she won't take it and deteriorate, in which case I won't try further and take her to be PTS.

I am beyond gutted again. I wasn't expecting her to reduce her eating so quickly.

Although I hate to say it, I have a very important interview tomorrow morning. I knew her time would fall right around the interview but she was doing so well I thought we'd get past the interview and still have a little time together. I spent lots of time watching and cuddling her, taking videos and photos for the first week-10 days after diagnosis and now I'm trying to prepare for the interview. I'm trying not to feel guilty about focusing on it when it looks like it's her final days because I know my life will go on when she's gone and I can't not go for it. All the grief has hit me again full force.

My second question for those who went through lymphoma with their piggy... how long did you have between first signs of weight loss/reducing food intake and needing to PTS?
 

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Also, she's on 0.4ml dog metacam twice a day. Should I up it to 0.5ml twice a day to ensure she's as comfortable as she can be? Maybe it'll help her eat as well although I know I may be clutching at straws
 
I can’t be of any help but wanted to send you both lots of love at this very difficult time.

I’m sure our more experienced members will be along soon
 
I’m so sorry your gorgeous girl is reaching the end of her days and can’t offer any help but I am thinking of you both x
I would be included to leave her be if she is enjoying life and eating for herself, syringe feeding can be so stressful for them, but that only my opinion
 
I just wanted to add that what you describe is pretty much exactly the same as what we went through with Oreo.
She did super well for the first 10 days - so much so that we even started to question the diagnosis - and then suddenly went downhill.

I agree with everyone else about giving her everything she loves and offering syringe feed if she takes it, but at this point I wouldn't stress you or her out with things that will ultimately not really change anything.

And everyone has a different idea of what is right when it comes to these things, but for us, once we saw Oreo start to decline rapidly we made the appointment to pts.
It may sound harsh, but we wanted to pick a time where we could focus on her and prepare. It also helped all of us to know when it would happen and arrange some time afterwards to grieve. I know this isn't possible for everyone, but for us this meant her planned passing was peaceful and we almost felt a sense of relief once the appointment was booked as there was no more guessing or constant worry.

I wish you all the best with everything.
It is a horrible disease and there are no easy answers. Just go with your heart and do what feels right for you and Ginger.
 
Fluffbabies said:
Hi everyone, it's day 12 since Ginger's lymphoma diagnosis. Thank you for all your support on my diagnosis thread. I wanted to start a new one because I need some advice!

I was just saying yesterday how well she's doing. She has been happy, excited for food, eating/drinking lots and exploring/destroying things. It was easy to forget how ill she was.

We've been weighing morning and evening at her med times. Her weight's been steadily within 1090-1110g this whole time.
Yesterday it was 1066g in the morning but we weighed again in the evening and it was 1090g so I wasn't too worried.
I just weighed her this morning and couldn't believe my eyes.. she's just 1015g which is the weight of our smallest piggy. This is almost 100g less than her most common 1111g weigh-in.

Putting aside the panic and returning grief... what do I do?
She seems happy, she's been chewing their cardboard house and was excited for salad. She nommed on it quickly although I realise not for long. Usually it's until it's all gone :(
As she's end of life, do I syringe feed at all because she's bright and happy at the moment to support her for a couple of days? Or do I leave her to drop weight and let nature run it's course? I don't want to force her to stay but don't want to do nothing if some syringe feeding will help her live better while she's here. I know I could try to syringe feed and she won't take it and deteriorate, in which case I won't try further and take her to be PTS.

I am beyond gutted again. I wasn't expecting her to reduce her eating so quickly.

Although I hate to say it, I have a very important interview tomorrow morning. I knew her time would fall right around the interview but she was doing so well I thought we'd get past the interview and still have a little time together. I spent lots of time watching and cuddling her, taking videos and photos for the first week-10 days after diagnosis and now I'm trying to prepare for the interview. I'm trying not to feel guilty about focusing on it when it looks like it's her final days because I know my life will go on when she's gone and I can't not go for it. All the grief has hit me again full force.

My second question for those who went through lymphoma with their piggy... how long did you have between first signs of weight loss/reducing food intake and needing to PTS?
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HUGS

You are at the most difficult stage now when you realise that you are coming very close to the time and start asking yourself all those questions and have the jitters because you want to get absolutely right.

Personally, I have found that the day my piggy is no longer interested in food is the day. Any support feed I give is in a way that gives my piggy the control (like eating from a bowl or a spoon) so I don't get sucked into over-supporting. But generally, you will know when the time has come; your piggy will show when they can no longer suppress the symptoms of illness and do no longer have the will to go on and live.

Cherish the fact that you have had that time of grace in which you could make the most of it. Sadly, yours is obviously one of the more aggressive ones.

I am ever so sorry.
Please take the time to read the relevant chapters in this guide here. You will find them helpful as they specifically address the issues you are grappling with in more specific detail: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
 
Hi everyone, Gingie is still with us. After our scare, she regained all her weight and has been happy nomming lots of hay and food. Enjoyed cuddles, has been popcorning at new cage time and has been chewing on hard things. We really feel we are on borrowed time due to the couple of scares recently but love still seeing her still in the cage with her besties. As these are our first pets and piggies (as adults) it will hit especially hard when the time comes.

We’ve noticed today that she’s spending more time in the corner of the cage. It scared us to come home to her in the corner facing the corner, which is unheard of for any of them and we know it’s not a great sign. She still came running for salad, although it took her a while to realise. She was facing the corner again later this evening. But she is still her normal weight and she is eating. I feel like she’s not eating enough and is keeping to herself a bit more but the scales don’t show a change yet. And she’s still exploring, showing the others who is boss and chewing the correx. We gave her more cuddles and she seems bright. So it’s down to her :) when she shows us she’s had enough we‘ll take her.

I must say it’s coming suspiciously close to the bank holiday! 😅
 

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Fluffbabies said:
Hi everyone, Gingie is still with us. After our scare, she regained all her weight and has been happy nomming lots of hay and food. Enjoyed cuddles, has been popcorning at new cage time and has been chewing on hard things. We really feel we are on borrowed time due to the couple of scares recently but love still seeing her still in the cage with her besties. As these are our first pets and piggies (as adults) it will hit especially hard when the time comes.

We’ve noticed today that she’s spending more time in the corner of the cage. It scared us to come home to her in the corner facing the corner, which is unheard of for any of them and we know it’s not a great sign. She still came running for salad, although it took her a while to realise. She was facing the corner again later this evening. But she is still her normal weight and she is eating. I feel like she’s not eating enough and is keeping to herself a bit more but the scales don’t show a change yet. And she’s still exploring, showing the others who is boss and chewing the correx. We gave her more cuddles and she seems bright. So it’s down to her :) when she shows us she’s had enough we‘ll take her.

I must say it’s coming suspiciously close to the bank holiday! 😅
Click to expand...

Hang on in there! I thought I might lose my Mererid over Easter, but while she has slowed down a real lot, she is still here...

End of life care is very much an up and down with all its emotional baggage. Treasure every extra day.
 
Wiebke said:
Hang on in there! I thought I might lose my Mererid over Easter, but while she has slowed down a real lot, she is still here...

End of life care is very much an up and down with all its emotional baggage. Treasure every extra day.
Click to expand...

Aww bless your little Mererid. I can’t believe Gingie is still here. I thought she wouldn’t last a week and here we are day 17 post diagnosis. Maybe she still has some time left with us even if she slows down :) Thank you for your message x
 
Fluffbabies said:
Aww bless your little Mererid. I can’t believe Gingie is still here. I thought she wouldn’t last a week and here we are day 17 post diagnosis. Maybe she still has some time left with us even if she slows down :) Thank you for your message x
Click to expand...

Just take every extra day for the special gift that it is; you get at least so much more out of this bitter-sweet time than you would otherwise.
 
I’m so pleased she’s doing so well, she’s so beautiful and definitely a fighter piggy! Hope you have lots more lovely times together :hug:x
 
I’m so glad Gingie is still with you, she’s an amazing little piggie. Take everyday as it comes, each day is a big bonus and enjoy it to the full. Gingie has had a lovely life with you and hopefully more time too x
 
Holding you in my heart.
Living with an end of life piggy is draining.
My Jemimah was diagnosed with a tumour last March, just after we went into lockdown.
With the vets’ support I took her home and planned to make the most of whatever time we had left.
As others have advised I gave Jemimah all her favourite food, took lots of pictures and when it became clear that she was getting uncomfortable the vet gave me Metacam.
Then one day she took herself off into the carrot cottage and slipped away peacefully there during the night.
I was beginning to think about pts and my vet had said as soon as that was needed to call.
Fortunately that wasn’t needed.

Remember that you have already started to grieve for Gingie, that starts as soon as the diagnosis is made.
Be gentle with yourself and just make Gingie’s last days or weeks comfortable and happy.
 
Ginger’s weight still seems okay but on giving her her medications this evening I noticed her legs and paws look huge. I felt them and they didn’t feel too different to me as a non vet trained owner but I was surprised at their size. I’m guessing this is the oedema that Simon said might happen. I think her belly might have fluid build up too. Simon said we could give her diuretics if she got fluid build up but I don’t know if there’s much point. 🤷🏻‍♀️

It’s really hard to know as we want to keep her comfortable but not spend too much money / be too invasive if this means she hasn’t got long left. Unfortunately we are 2 hours plus away from Simon. I could try and get her seen by the local vet. She is thorough but misdiagnosed Leia’s lump as a root abscess and charged me £100 for an X-ray when there’s nothing wrong with her teeth at all and it’s in fact a cancerous lump.

Any ideas if this oedema may be her organs heading towards failure or if diuretics could prolong her life at all? She still seems happy enough in the cage, nomming hay and snatching veggies, bossing the others and cuddling them. I seems like the painkillers are keeping her comfortable.. I’ve got her on 0.5ml twice a day now and she’s around 1100g. I feel like maybe we’ll find her passed in the cage before she shows us signs to take her to be pts.

I don’t want to not get her treatment for the fluid build up if it would help her.
 
I'm so sorry that I can't offer any advice. I just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you and sending lots of love during this difficult time 💗
 
An update in case this thread is of use to future piggy owners going through the same thing.

I spoke to Simon at Cat and Rabbit Clinic who said it sounds like Ginger's cancer is slower than we originally thought although the fact that I am now seeing this oedema (swelling in legs, paws and belly) means that it is progressing. He said it is definitely worth treating, as a symptom of her condition and one which could be causing her discomfort and to feel heavy because of carrying the extra fluid or putting more strain on organs if it's around them. He said it could prolong her life if that's by a couple of days or longer as it's very hard to know how long she has left. He said leukaemia has many different types and without doing a lot of testing we cannot know which she has and how long she might have left. We know a lot less about this cancer in guinea pigs than in humans of course as well.

He has prescribed furosemide (a diuretic) in liquid form called "frusol" at 2mg per kg of body weight. As the drug strength is 40mg in 5ml, this means 0.3ml twice a day for Ginger. As an end of life treatment he said not to stop it as he expects the fluid build up would come back as her lymph nodes are now not functioning as they should because of the cancer. If she responds very well and the fluid goes away he said we may be able to reduce the dose to 0.25-0.2ml twice a day to keep it at bay. If her weight drops and she's still eating well we can take that as the medication is working to reduce the fluid.

It makes me wonder what her "true" weight is if she has extra fluid weight right now. As she is roughly her normal weight, it must mean she's under without the fluid. She is still eating well and being her normal self which is lovely to see. Simon did confirm that when she does take a turn he thinks it'll be pretty fast.

So that's our update and information which could be helpful to others in the future as I couldn't find much on here about oedema caused by lymphoma.

Plus obligatory photos of the Ginge...
 

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Thinking of you both and sending lots of love 💕
I’m so pleased that you have the support of the best vets around!

Such a beautiful girl and I’m so happy you are getting some more precious moments together💕
 
I’m so pleased Simon thinks the meds will help! Hope you have lots more time with lovely Ginger, she really is beautiful and sounds like she’s doing so well! :luv:
Massive hugs from me and the pigs (and Luigi and Jasper send Ginger big kisses but don’t tell their wives!), hope you’re ok x
 
Aw, lovely news, I’m so glad to hear she’s still with you and you are getting support from Simon, he is so good with piggies, mine included x
 
Our local vet wouldn’t fulfil the script for furosemide from Simon without seeing Ginger because of potential side effects. On seeing her, local vet said the fluid on her legs was from blood not being able to return to the heart so well because of the lumps and so it wasn’t the type of fluid that furosemide would help. She was also concerned furosemide lowers blood pressure which could put more strain on Ginger’s kidneys as she’s on the maximum pain relief.

So treatment is to keep her moving by getting her running around after the salad bag to encourage the fluid to return to the heart. Typically, Gingers legs and paws were not very swollen at all when we took her! So it had gone down again. Another sign it wasn’t oedema apparently.

I selected Leia to come along for moral support. She is the one who has the cancerous lump growing right next to her eye. I noticed when putting her in the carrier that her eye was drooping more and the inner part of her eye now on show was pink and swollen and her eye was cloudy. I asked the vet to have a quick look which of course turned into another full consultation on the bill! 🙄😫

Vet agreed that as the tumour isn’t operable it was just something that is going to happen and not look very nice. Leia shouldn’t be in pain because she’s on painkillers but as she is unable to blink her eye so well, it could be getting dry/sore. She also seems to have scratched it which is why it’s all cloudy.. so she has some very expensive lubricating eye drops to add to our treatment routine! Twice the price that the furosemide would have been I might add!

The vet thinks her eye becomes more and the less swollen because Leia might be bumping the lump into things causing a small amount of swelling and bleeding beside the bump (like a bruise). I considered suggesting a mini cone for her? I’m sure she’d look amazing 😂

So yes, another £95 at the vets 🙈 it’s putting my boyfriend off allowing me to have my herd of 30 that’s for sure 😂
 
❤️❤️ Thank you everyone so much for your support and following our story. ❤️❤️

I did break down and cry about 4x at the vets. I felt fine before I arrived and I guess just being at the vet with them again and I’m feeling tired from having two end of life piggies. It really is up and down. But the vet thought they were doing great considering they’ve both got cancer. Oh, and Gingers ovarian cysts are the size of golf balls now! Which is why her belly feels so big to me
 
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