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Malignant Sarcoma - Operate or not?

G

GuineaGang96

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi,

Last week we noticed one of our Guineas pigs (2.5 years old) had a lump on her. The same day I took her to the vets and got a sample taken.

They have today called to confirm this is a Malignant sarcoma. From my understanding, even if we were to operate, there is a high chance this will come back and not extend her life span.

I do however just want to do what is absolute best and give her best chances of survival, however I do not wish to put her through surgery for it to not help, and would rather just make sure she is as comfortable as she can be.

I was just wondering what people’s experience and suggestions would be for her.

Thank you.
 
I’m so sorry to here your sad news, I have no experience but just wanted to offer support. She is relatively young, I would be guided by your vet. 🤞
 
I am very sorry fo the diagnosis :( My late Emma had a cancerous tumour in her armpit. At over 5 years old and from an honest discussion with my vet, we decided not to operate and allow her to live out whatever time she had left. She lived for a further 6 months until she died of something unrelated.

Be guided by your vet and whatever decision you make will be the right one. You know your girl the best xx
 
GwillysGuineas said:
Hi,

Last week we noticed one of our Guineas pigs (2.5 years old) had a lump on her. The same day I took her to the vets and got a sample taken.

They have today called to confirm this is a Malignant sarcoma. From my understanding, even if we were to operate, there is a high chance this will come back and not extend her life span.

I do however just want to do what is absolute best and give her best chances of survival, however I do not wish to put her through surgery for it to not help, and would rather just make sure she is as comfortable as she can be.

I was just wondering what people’s experience and suggestions would be for her.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Hi

HUGS

I am very sorry for the bad news. It is always so much harder with a younger piggy/

Cancer in guinea pigs is rare; and so are experiences with it. Mostly any cancer comes in the form of 'masses' in the body and lymphoma. At this young age, there is likely a genetic disposition in play. Guinea pigs have a much faster metabolism, it is is the faster the younger they are so any cancer happens in fast forward compared to ours.

Anyway, I don't think we ever had to deal with a diagnosis like yours, seeing how massively diagnostics have improved and continued to improve for guinea pigs in recent years. I certainly have never come across it with my own piggies nor can I remember dealing with a sarcomatic lump on here before.


It is always tough in a comparable situation to weigh up the various pros and cons because there is no right or wrong, whichever way you decide. I call them 'between a rock and a hard place' choices and have over the years gone either way with various piggies of mine, deciding individually in every single case whether risking a op would reap more benefits or whether it was kinder for the piggy just to live out their life in as much comfort as possible (especially as they won't know what is at stake) and then calling it a day.

It is never about the quantity of life but the quality of it. Guinea pigs don't have a concept for an average life expectancy; they measure their lives in 'happy todays'. Working out which way will be more good days and whether an operation cost/operation recovery is worth facing the same dilemma again in the not very far future or not is up to you as the owner. It has to feel right for you. You are not a bad owner whichever way you decide as long as you put your piggy's interests before your own fears of loss and - depending on the cost of an operation - whether it is worth it for the likely return.

What I would recommend is to listen to your gut feeling and to go with that. Ultimately, you will be best able to make peace with yourself for the long term once the inevitable soul-searching and guilt trip at the onset of the grieving process and then the actual loss is over.

You may find this guide link here helpful. It doesn't make for easy reading but it addresses exactly the issues you are facing in a practical but sensitive manner to help you make any decisions with a clearer head if not an easier heart.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
 
Claire W said:
I am very sorry fo the diagnosis :( My late Emma had a cancerous tumour in her armpit. At over 5 years old and from an honest discussion with my vet, we decided not to operate and allow her to live out whatever time she had left. She lived for a further 6 months until she died of something unrelated.

Be guided by your vet and whatever decision you make will be the right one. You know your girl the best xx
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Thank you for replying and sharing your experience, I am sorry to hear about Emma.

The vet did she could try remove the mass however it is likely it would come back as it is aggressive.

I shall give the vets a call first thing tomorrow and look to take her in again or atleast have a discussion about what we can do, and realistically what the chances of surgery helping are.

If she doesn’t have too much longer left, I don’t want to put her through surgery during that and will just make sure she is spoilt x
 
Wiebke said:
Hi

HUGS

I am very sorry for the bad news. It is always so much harder with a younger piggy/

Cancer in guinea pigs is rare; and so are experiences with it. Mostly any cancer comes in the form of 'masses' in the body and lymphoma. At this young age, there is likely a genetic disposition in play. Guinea pigs have a much faster metabolism, it is is the faster the younger they are so any cancer happens in fast forward compared to ours.

Anyway, I don't think we ever had to deal with a diagnosis like yours, seeing how massively diagnostics have improved and continued to improve for guinea pigs in recent years. I certainly have never come across it with my own piggies nor can I remember dealing with a sarcomatic lump on here before.


It is always tough in a comparable situation to weigh up the various pros and cons because there is no right or wrong, whichever way you decide. I call them 'between a rock and a hard place' choices and have over the years gone either way with various piggies of mine, deciding individually in every single case whether risking a op would reap more benefits or whether it was kinder for the piggy just to live out their life in as much comfort as possible (especially as they won't know what is at stake) and then calling it a day.

It is never about the quantity of life but the quality of it. Guinea pigs don't have a concept for an average life expectancy; they measure their lives in 'happy todays'. Working out which way will be more good days and whether an operation cost/operation recovery is worth facing the same dilemma again in the not very far future or not is up to you as the owner. It has to feel right for you. You are not a bad owner whichever way you decide as long as you put your piggy's interests before your own fears of loss and - depending on the cost of an operation - whether it is worth it for the likely return.

What I would recommend is to listen to your gut feeling and to go with that. Ultimately, you will be best able to make peace with yourself for the long term once the inevitable soul-searching and guilt trip at the onset of the grieving process and then the actual loss is over.

You may find this guide link here helpful. It doesn't make for easy reading but it addresses exactly the issues you are facing in a practical but sensitive manner to help you make any decisions with a clearer head if not an easier heart.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for your response, it really helped put things in to perspective and helped clear my head since receiving the news, especially your point of it being quality of life over quantity.

I have always wanted to avoid putting them through surgery due to the toll this could take on them, however I would always be happy to do so if this was going to make sure they weren’t in pain and it improved their life. My initial gut feeling is to avoid putting her through this, and just make sure she is comfortable for as long as possible and spoilt daily.

I will just take time to think it over this evening and speak to the vet in the morning about realistically how much we can help Roxy with surgery, or keep her comfortable for the time being.

Thank you again for your response and for the link, I am having a read through this thread now.
 
I’m so sorry you have had this diagnosis for Roxy. I don’t have any experience of this but wanted to send you a hug and healing vibes to Roxy. ❤️
 
So sorry to hear about Roxy’s diagnosis. My skinny pig Jellybaby had lymphoma diagnosed after a lump was removed. Like you I agonised about surgery as he is nearly 4 but the lump was large and on his tummy. However he still has other lumps and after a long discussion with the vet, the focus now is on keeping him comfortable. I hope you reach a decision with your vet that feels right for Roxy and you. Hugs and love to you and Roxy 💕
 
Bertie & Jelly said:
So sorry to hear about Roxy’s diagnosis. My skinny pig Jellybaby had lymphoma diagnosed after a lump was removed. Like you I agonised about surgery as he is nearly 4 but the lump was large and on his tummy. However he still has other lumps and after a long discussion with the vet, the focus now is on keeping him comfortable. I hope you reach a decision with your vet that feels right for Roxy and you. Hugs and love to you and Roxy 💕
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Thanks for the message really appreciate it. I am sorry to hear about Jellybaby, although I am sure she is just appreciating getting the love and care she needs!

I have to admit I am leaning towards doing the same for Roxy. I just want to make sure she is happy for as long as possible, but I will give them a call tomorrow morning and discuss what’s best for roxy 💕
 
What I've done in the past when I had a difficult decision to make is to make a decision live with it for a few days and if it feels right go with it, if it doesn't, go with the other decision.

Best wishes for you and Roxy.
 
Betsy said:
What I've done in the past when I had a difficult decision to make is to make a decision live with it for a few days and if it feels right go with it, if it doesn't, go with the other decision.

Best wishes for you and Roxy.
Click to expand...

I think that is what I will have to do. Unfortunately we found out whilst we are away for a couple days, so the Piggy’s are with my partners parents.

I am going to call the vets when it opens this morning and explain I don’t wish to proceed with surgery unless there’s a really high chance this will give her a better quality of life as at this moment I don’t want to put her through it.

Thanks for the message!
 
I have no experience of this but I am currently living with my decision not to operate on my older boy (6) to remove a bladder stone for the same reason - if he survives the operation he's very likely to get another within the following weeks, as this is his second stone since the summer.

It is never an easy decision and I thought a lot about it but the main reason for us to try and manage his condition without surgery is that George won't actually realise we're trying to help him. He's not a person and I can't explain what's wrong and what we want to do. Nature has evolved him to just get on with things as long as he can, and I can help that in ways he appreciates (tasty painkiller and a bit of syringe food every day) and ways he doesn't (unbunging his impacted bottom! But at least he gets to eat the prize 🤭).
But he wouldn't understand what was happening at all - the pain and stress of the operation - even just being handed over to the vet they don't always realise this is a just temporary thing and they'll be back home soon. He might end up in worse pain and even if it all worked out in people terms (ie condition alleviated, temporarily at least) he's unlikely to realise that he was feeling better because of what had been done to him. If I thought the stone wouldn't return I might well go for it but putting him through that to buy him a bit more time - I don't think he'd want it. And that's ultimately the choice we're looking at as owners - we try and put ourselves in their paws and think 'what would they want?' Every species has an urge to survive but not many can think ahead like people can and weigh up pros and cons. For piggies life is very much in the moment. 'Happy Todays' as Wiebke said.

There is an initial shock when you get news like this and we naturally flail around looking for answers. As people, our overriding impulse is to Do Something to try and fix the problem which is why there is such a heart-pull towards surgery. Now we're over the initial shock of our diagnosis we are adjusting to a new way of life... which isn't over yet 💕
 
Free Ranger said:
I have no experience of this but I am currently living with my decision not to operate on my older boy (6) to remove a bladder stone for the same reason - if he survives the operation he's very likely to get another within the following weeks, as this is his second stone since the summer.

It is never an easy decision and I thought a lot about it but the main reason for us to try and manage his condition without surgery is that George won't actually realise we're trying to help him. He's not a person and I can't explain what's wrong and what we want to do. Nature has evolved him to just get on with things as long as he can, and I can help that in ways he appreciates (tasty painkiller and a bit of syringe food every day) and ways he doesn't (unbunging his impacted bottom! But at least he gets to eat the prize 🤭).
But he wouldn't understand what was happening at all - the pain and stress of the operation - even just being handed over to the vet they don't always realise this is a just temporary thing and they'll be back home soon. He might end up in worse pain and even if it all worked out in people terms (ie condition alleviated, temporarily at least) he's unlikely to realise that he was feeling better because of what had been done to him. If I thought the stone wouldn't return I might well go for it but putting him through that to buy him a bit more time - I don't think he'd want it. And that's ultimately the choice we're looking at as owners - we try and put ourselves in their paws and think 'what would they want?' Every species has an urge to survive but not many can think ahead like people can and weigh up pros and cons. For piggies life is very much in the moment. 'Happy Todays' as Wiebke said.

There is an initial shock when you get news like this and we naturally flail around looking for answers. As people, our overriding impulse is to Do Something to try and fix the problem which is why there is such a heart-pull towards surgery. Now we're over the initial shock of our diagnosis we are adjusting to a new way of life... which isn't over yet 💕
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing your response! Although it’s a different situation, it’s a very similar choice so it’s nice to see someone thinking the same way!

I have spoken to the vet, and we both agreed it is not worth putting her through the surgery, but instead to get her on some anti-inflammatory and just do everything to keep her comfortable for the time being.

You’re completely correct in flailing about for answers/solutions, however after realising what is best for her, and not me, I want to make the rest of her life as stress free and comfortable as possible.

It has been made harder as we’re actually across the country from her at the moment and found out whilst we were away . All the piggies are at my partners parents so she’s in great hand, but I felt incredible guilty last night not being able to see her and we’re away for 4 days so I also feel guilty for not being there as much as possible with time left with her, we did consider leaving early but it is a long journey.

She is in great hands though and Anti-imflammatory tablets are being picked up today, and we’ve asked they let us know if she starts showing any signs of discomfort (lethargic, not eating, heavy breathing, ruffled etc.) because if so I will make the 10 hour trip home to see her.

Thank you again for your message and hope George is doing well and enjoying his ‘special’ treats 😂💕
 
So sorry that you’ve had such bad news.
It does feel as if the bottom has fallen out of the world when you get told something like that.

The only advice I can give is to go with your heart.
Make lots of memories, have lots of happy todays and take lots of photos.

Holding you in my heart ♥️
 
Merab's Slave said:
So sorry that you’ve had such bad news.
It does feel as if the bottom has fallen out of the world when you get told something like that.

The only advice I can give is to go with your heart.
Make lots of memories, have lots of happy todays and take lots of photos.

Holding you in my heart ♥️
Click to expand...
It really did at first, however Feeling slightly more positive now and just focused on making most of the time we have left with her as you say!

Thank you ❤️
 
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