Managing Antibiotics With Pro-biotics

[Olivitree]

Hello peeps,

So my lovely old lady seems to have problem after problem over the past year or so, she probably about 6 now, not entirely sure I got her from my sister when she was 2.
I'm currently battling with a recurring problem on her side, the Vet thinks its a sebaceous cyst that she just wont leave alone.

So from the start!

She started barbering her hair quite a bit, we suspected allergy to something as we did skin cultures, she also had a urine infection which we dealt with. She started chewing one particular point on her side more than the rest and I have since been battling with it to stop this scabby lump from getting bigger and being chewed more.
Shes stopped chewing her legs, which is great, but this lump is recurring.
We know its not cancer as it completely went away at one point, I rejoiced too soon, with in a few weeks it was back again. I don't know if I just stopped the anti biotics/metacam too soon or if its just because it is a recurring sebaceous cyst.
She's still a pretty perky happy piggy, just when she grooms, she tends to chomp her scab and aggravate the problem!

I'm losing my mind a little bit with it, my old lady is having to be kept in sock jumpers and loaded with anti biotics daily, its started playing up with her gut now too, she was doing ok previously but now i've noticed changes in her poops. I've immediately got her on probiotics and helping her with her food, topping her up with spoon fed mushed pellets with pro biotic and a bit of banana to disguise the flavour of the pro biotics (she hates them, I don't blame her, they stink!)

I currently have her on septrin, I'm not sure if its working as well so i may have to move over to baytril again, does anyone have suggestions on the best way to balance out long use of antibiotics with use of probiotics? how often is it worth giving her the pro biotic in between the antibiotics? What antibiotic is easier on her gut?

I'm also thinking of grabbing some more metacam for her as that seemed to work really well for her last time but this time he didn't give me any, so I'm going to get some more written up for her.

If anyone has any better anti-chew suggestions than a sock with holes cut in, I'd appreciate it too, she's got wise to my tricks and knows how to get out of them!(probably because I'm scared to make the holes tight enough to stop her wiggling out)

 

[DM030819]

I wonder if it is actually a sebaceous cyst. I've seen them a couple of times and they tend to not bother the pig. They usually grow slower over time then will rupture, giving out a thick paste. I've always left them until they got to a size when removing them was the next step, cleaning them when they're burst.

Probiotics wise I use Pro-C, which comes in a yellow tub. An hour and a half after the antibiotic I'll added it to some water and give it to the pig by syringe. It's only a small dose so they tend not to mind. One 1ml syringe is enough.

Is there a reason for her being on antibiotics? Sebaceous cysts are usually caused by ingrown hairs and aren't infected.

Baytril is harder on the gut, but it depends on what strain of infection she has, as they work in different ways.

 

[Wiebke]

Hello peeps,

So my lovely old lady seems to have problem after problem over the past year or so, she probably about 6 now, not entirely sure I got her from my sister when she was 2.
I'm currently battling with a recurring problem on her side, the Vet thinks its a sebaceous cyst that she just wont leave alone.

So from the start!

She started barbering her hair quite a bit, we suspected allergy to something as we did skin cultures, she also had a urine infection which we dealt with. She started chewing one particular point on her side more than the rest and I have since been battling with it to stop this scabby lump from getting bigger and being chewed more.
Shes stopped chewing her legs, which is great, but this lump is recurring.
We know its not cancer as it completely went away at one point, I rejoiced too soon, with in a few weeks it was back again. I don't know if I just stopped the anti biotics/metacam too soon or if its just because it is a recurring sebaceous cyst.
She's still a pretty perky happy piggy, just when she grooms, she tends to chomp her scab and aggravate the problem!

I'm losing my mind a little bit with it, my old lady is having to be kept in sock jumpers and loaded with anti biotics daily, its started playing up with her gut now too, she was doing ok previously but now i've noticed changes in her poops. I've immediately got her on probiotics and helping her with her food, topping her up with spoon fed mushed pellets with pro biotic and a bit of banana to disguise the flavour of the pro biotics (she hates them, I don't blame her, they stink!)

I currently have her on septrin, I'm not sure if its working as well so i may have to move over to baytril again, does anyone have suggestions on the best way to balance out long use of antibiotics with use of probiotics? how often is it worth giving her the pro biotic in between the antibiotics? What antibiotic is easier on her gut?

I'm also thinking of grabbing some more metacam for her as that seemed to work really well for her last time but this time he didn't give me any, so I'm going to get some more written up for her.

If anyone has any better anti-chew suggestions than a sock with holes cut in, I'd appreciate it too, she's got wise to my tricks and knows how to get out of them!(probably because I'm scared to make the holes tight enough to stop her wiggling out)

You generally give a pinch of probiotics about 1-2 hours after an antibiotic, but some vets question whether they actually work. Any antibiotic not only works on the bacteria it is employed against, but also on the gut bacteria that are essential for the digestion. The one that seems to impact the gut fauna worst is baytril. Long term use of antibiotics also has got a major effect on the guts.

There are a few things you can try:
- "poo soup": this is made by soaking fresh poos from a healthy piggy in water and then syringing the water. It contains gut bacteria etc. to help re-stock the guts with the "right stuff" even if it is a bit gross. It also mimics natural guinea pig behaviour although what recovering piggies are really after are the much more powerful redigested caecotrophs, but even normal poos contain enough to make it worth.
- fibreplex: it is expensive, but it contains high fibre and some other supportive ingredients in addition to probiotics to help prop up the guts.
- guinea pigs whose digestion has become unbalanced due to medication after an operation or a long illness often crave very rough, nutritionally poor fibre to help them rebalance the guts, like brown cardboard or brown paper (cut through any handles). Even toilet or kitchen roll inners will do.
- lots of fibre is the best thing you can do to support the digestion

I wonder whether there is something else going on if she keeps on biting the wound open; that is not normal. It imply some ongoing pain or major discomfort. Could you get some velcro strips to sew onto some sturdier fabric to make it more difficult to wiggle out?

 

[helen105281]

Has the vet ruled out fungal? I know you said cultures have been done but most types don't tend to grow anything when a culture is done.

 

[Olivitree]

@Wiebke

Thank you for all the fab advice! I was wondering about the pro biotic... it says its for rabbits which flags warnings up to me to be honest, surely it isn't quite the same bacteria? I'll get to work pinching the other piggies poops, I'll see if I can nab some of the caecotrophs before they get eaten, I have a pair of healthy pigs I can attempt to nab some poops from.

Ahhh Fibreplex! thats what I've been looking for, every time I have an ill piggy I keep trying to remember what that was, we had to use it for a piggy who packed up eating and it went down a treat. its something I keep thinking might be useful to have a stash of, depending how long it keeps for.

I think I have some toilet roll holders that haven't been recycled yet, I can try her on those.

Well, it could be pain, she doesn't seem to show it much though she's been perky until she started having issues with her gut, she was even still popcorning a little when all the piggies got excited! I'll get her on the metacam and see if that solves the problem, if so it could be to do with her ovaries, she has cystic ovaries, but they aren't so enormous yet that we feel she needs anything done. He did move and stretch out her legs and he said they didn't seem to be particularly arthritic which I think is why we landed on the idea it might be a sebaceous cyst as she's a very lumpy piggy anyway (we keep checking each new lump, they tend to be just little inert fatty lumps). If I get it calmed down again I'll take her back when its gone perhaps and see if he still thinks its a cyst when he can actually seee and feel the skin with out all the bleh on top.

The location of the irritation is roughly on the edge of her ribcage, probably about 2 or 3 cms down her side away from her spine. So there isn't a great deal there bar her gut I believe, that might be causing her hassle, though I'm not toally positive where her kidneys are, it might be worth me getting her another urine test done. could her spine be causing her issues but she cant reach? She can still bend round to groom her backside so she's not too inflexible.

@helen105281
Oh interesting, I thought we did but now I can't remember how we worked it out. What are the typical treatments for fungal issues? All her symptoms did clear up to a certain extent (the barbering of her legs stopped and her injury had time to heal up completely) is that common to happen with fungal issues? I think we partly ruled out fungal as none of the other piggies were showing signs and if it was ringworm, I'd be the first to know, I'm usually the first to catch it off the guinea pigs as we discovered when we got some pigs who had it! I might send him an email and inquire into it to clarify what conclusion we came to in regards to that.

 

[helen105281]

@Wiebke

@helen105281
Oh interesting, I thought we did but now I can't remember how we worked it out. What are the typical treatments for fungal issues? All her symptoms did clear up to a certain extent (the barbering of her legs stopped and her injury had time to heal up completely) is that common to happen with fungal issues? I think we partly ruled out fungal as none of the other piggies were showing signs and if it was ringworm, I'd be the first to know, I'm usually the first to catch it off the guinea pigs as we discovered when we got some pigs who had it! I might send him an email and inquire into it to clarify what conclusion we came to in regards to that.

I usually treat with an anti-fungal shampoo (currently using D10) and Imaverol dips but all the pigs she lives with would need to be treated as a precaution. The Imaverol is left on once dipped so it can work over the coming days. I have had pigs with fungal where the herd mates showed no symptoms. I would think though if it was fungal and left untreated it would not have just disappeared.

 

[Olivitree]

I usually treat with an anti-fungal shampoo (currently using D10) and Imaverol dips but all the pigs she lives with would need to be treated as a precaution. The Imaverol is left on once dipped so it can work over the coming days. I have had pigs with fungal where the herd mates showed no symptoms. I would think though if it was fungal and left untreated it would not have just disappeared.

Yes I think thats what has made us think it isn't fungal, it did all clear up, grew her hair back on her legs, the only bit that hasn't really changed is her bald patch on her side where the wound is she wont leave alone, but I think she's scarred that to the point her hair wont grow back, I'll talk to him about D10 see if he thinks it would be worth trying as she's a bit flakey all over so maybe she has got something else going on with her skin.

Does metacam stop guinea pigs being irritated by fungal infections? that might be what caused it to clear up if so, so we may have to have a closer look into it all!

 

[helen105281]

It can do as it is an anti-inflammatory. Another thing you could ask the vet about is an anti-histamine. I have used Children's Piriton liquid in the past when I have had an itchy pig. My vet is aware we use it and was happy with it but run it past your vet first. It helped barley recently when he had mange mites and was falling over when scratching.