Merits of Educating - continuation of thread (split topic)

[Shrike_xX]

I have just spent a good hour on preloved sending messages to complete :x .....idiots who think its acceptable to do this. We really need to write a letter to the prime minister to make it illegal to breed animals privately, every single animal in the UK should be accounted for so that we can stop this stupid cycle. Some of those people genuinely seem to think it's ok to do that, I can't do anything because I'm going to uni - but there'd be thousands more animals in need, we need to actually make some sort of stand! Try and put legislation together that stops the breeding of animals in private homes, otherwise this madness will never end! @)

 

[amentalcat]

Much as i agree with the fact that there is a huge problem with piggies being given away and indescriminate breeding, i'm not sure how legislation would stop it. Are you saying that there should be no breeding at all?, or just not by private individuals?

Just wondered.

I would always be very carefull about sending messages to people about re-homing their piggies - there is a fine line between advising them and insulting them - SOME people genuinely need to re-home their piggies, yes, they should contact a rescue, but sometimes there are circumstances that curtail that. Don't forget, if you send an abusive mail to them, they have your details as well.
Stay safe!

 

[gracie]

I would always be very carefull about sending messages to people about re-homing their piggies - there is a fine line between advising them and insulting them

I agree with this. Although obviously you have the guinea pig's best interests at heart, at the end of the day not everyone sees them as highly as people on here do, and you could end up forcing your views on people who will find it rude and abrasive. Sometimes you have to accept that not every animal is going to live a happy life. It's sad but there's not always anything you can do to help, and you might find that helping pigs who can be helped is more rewarding than trying and failing to make people see things the way you do.

 

[KingBoris&HisFollowers]

I agree with this. Although obviously you have the guinea pig's best interests at heart, at the end of the day not everyone sees them as highly as people on here do, and you could end up forcing your views on people who will find it rude and abrasive. Sometimes you have to accept that not every animal is going to live a happy life. It's sad but there's not always anything you can do to help, and you might find that helping pigs who can be helped is more rewarding than trying and failing to make people see things the way you do.

I'm sorry but i don't agree,accepting that people don't love and cherish there animals is as bad as giving up on them!
I myself will never stop trying to improve conditions for animals,its all well and good if you save them but we need to educate and at least try to help the others,it may not be successful but what do we all have to lose trying?

 

[MemberX]

Yep we need to educate people and not everyone who gives up their pets is doing it just to suit themselves. Sometimes there are no other options. Sometimes people get in over their heads. What you don't do is go and call them fit to burn because that isn't helping the animal, gets the owner all upset and doesn't educate.

It's like in the breeding section, someone comes on says they have bred their pig everyone goes ape at them they get anti and leave. Wouldn't it be better to educate, tell them the risks involved, give advice on what they can do to not have any future pregnancies. Granted it may not work and they may continue to do it but at least you can say you tried rather than getting all high and mighty. I've been guilty of that in the past but I'd rather speak nicely to someone and offer advice than shout and scream simply because it makes me feel better, it's not helping the animal at the end of the day.

 

[Missbonbon]

As much as I agree with what people say, I think we are moving away from what this section is meant for.

I think we should leave this discussion or post it elsewhere, as there are piggies needing homes and their threads are being pushed to the bottom of the page and over looked.

Thanks

 

[gracie]

What you don't do is go and call them fit to burn because that isn't helping the animal, gets the owner all upset and doesn't educate.

That's what I was trying to say. I was talking about the cases where nothing you can say in reasonable terms to them makes them understand, and if this is the case I think leaving them to think about what you've said is better than getting angry and self-righteous about it.
KingBoris, I think you took what I said the wrong way. I wasn't saying "if they don't agree with you leave them to it," I meant that sometimes nothing you can say will help and getting aggressive will only push them to believe that they're in the right. Helping pigs who you can actually give a better life to is more rewarding than yelling at a stubborn person who will never listen to you and will get offended if you say anything slightly opinionated.

 

[KingBoris&HisFollowers]

That's what I was trying to say. I was talking about the cases where nothing you can say in reasonable terms to them makes them understand, and if this is the case I think leaving them to think about what you've said is better than getting angry and self-righteous about it.
KingBoris, I think you took what I said the wrong way. I wasn't saying "if they don't agree with you leave them to it," I meant that sometimes nothing you can say will help and getting aggressive will only push them to believe that they're in the right. Helping pigs who you can actually give a better life to is more rewarding than yelling at a stubborn person who will never listen to you and will get offended if you say anything slightly opinionated.

i think i misunderstood:red xx

 

[boureki]

Mod note - I have split these posts from the Freead Piggies thread in The Rescue Centre as the posts ARE relevant, but just not appropriate to the previous section.

In order to keep the Freeads section strictly for just that, please continue any discussion on the above matter on this thread - thank you

 

[boureki]

It's like in the breeding section, someone comes on says they have bred their pig everyone goes ape at them they get anti and leave. Wouldn't it be better to educate, tell them the risks involved, give advice on what they can do to not have any future pregnancies. Granted it may not work and they may continue to do it but at least you can say you tried rather than getting all high and mighty. I've been guilty of that in the past but I'd rather speak nicely to someone and offer advice than shout and scream simply because it makes me feel better, it's not helping the animal at the end of the day.

I agree. There has been some criticism of the mod team about why some discussions about breeding have been left open - Louise's quoted post explains exactly why the occasional thread has been left. When people start having a go, it's easy to get very defensive and tune out.

If someone takes the time to welcome someone new and explains in a calm and eloquent manner why X or Y is not a good idea etc, then it may illicit a more positive response. We all feel strongly about our animals on here, that's why we have joined this forum, but I do believe that gentle education is the key rather than ramming our opinions down someone's throat and upsetting them to the point where they refuse to take anything constructive on board.

 

[Wiebke]

I second that - and want to make the point for people turning up in the pregnancy section as well!

Better to give them the facts in a friendly manner than to jump on top of them and make them go away. If you can win their trust and respect, you are actually in a position to make a real change without making them feel like idiots or criminals.

 

[gracie]

I think that it's very easy to get annoyed at a person who maybe hasn't owned guinea pigs as long, hasn't got the knowledge of their health (and why breeding may be bad for them) hasn't much knowledge of the benefits of rescues, etc. etc.
But like I stated before, I'd find it very irritating if I was that person and had someone biting my head off for the way I treated my animal. No matter what the problem was, I think I'd be inclined to tell them where to go rather than listen to them. And, tbf they may look after their pigs very well and I'm sure they think they know a lot about them.
I've noticed threads on various forums (no single forum in particular) where people seem to enjoy scoffing at others who obviously have less experience than they do, and maybe make a few mistakes. Whether or not these are serious mistakes or just errors of breed, what's the best food etc. I find it more appalling that they're sneered at and insulted by people who have owned animals for much longer, rather than being spoken to in a polite manner and offered valuable advice or resources to help them.
It's this sort of behaviour that I think needs to be changed before people "new" to guinea pigs or any other animal will, in general, learn how to treat their new pets correctly.

 

[KingBoris&HisFollowers]

I think that it's very easy to get annoyed at a person who maybe hasn't owned guinea pigs as long, hasn't got the knowledge of their health (and why breeding may be bad for them) hasn't much knowledge of the benefits of rescues, etc. etc.
But like I stated before, I'd find it very irritating if I was that person and had someone biting my head off for the way I treated my animal. No matter what the problem was, I think I'd be inclined to tell them where to go rather than listen to them. And, tbf they may look after their pigs very well and I'm sure they think they know a lot about them.
I've noticed threads on various forums (no single forum in particular) where people seem to enjoy scoffing at others who obviously have less experience than they do, and maybe make a few mistakes. Whether or not these are serious mistakes or just errors of breed, what's the best food etc. I find it more appalling that they're sneered at and insulted by people who have owned animals for much longer, rather than being spoken to in a polite manner and offered valuable advice or resources to help them.
It's this sort of behaviour that I think needs to be changed before people "new" to guinea pigs or any other animal will, in general, learn how to treat their new pets correctly.

could not have said it better myself x

 

[Juniper]

We really need to write a letter to the prime minister to make it illegal to breed animals privately, every single animal in the UK should be accounted ........... try and put legislation together that stops the breeding of animals in private homes,

Well if this is the way that the forum is going I don't feel that I wish to be part of it.

I have been a member of this forum for a few years now. I have, where possible, tried to answer any post as helpfully as I can. Often the posts have been answered by others as there is a wealth of knowledge on here – which, even after 30 years of breeding and showing pigs, I still find useful. Obviously I do care about the health and wellbeing of my animals or I wouldn’t spend time on this forum

My life completely revolves around the animals. They cost a fortune to keep. They take hours of care and that is one of the reasons why I only work part time. My partner is quite happy with that because the pigs are actually his more than mine.

The pigs have been, and continue to be, a very major part of my life.....most of my friends I know because of the pigs......in fact I met my partner in 1985 at a guinea pig show (long before most of you were born). Many of our foreign holidays have been to Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Norway visiting piggy people and judging at shows abroad; yep, pigs really have got a lot to do with my life.

I would be the first person to wish that breeding pigs was in some way licensed. However, when there are threads about ‘the merits of educating’ and comments by some kid who consider that people who breed are absolute idiots I begin to lose my patience. Don’t tar us all with the same brush please.

Sadly this forum has changed, I think I realised how much it had changed when I read the thread about Teddies recently (the thread started with some older posts). From being a “rescue friendly....breeders we don’t want details thanks†sort of forum it has changed to something I no longer wish to be involved in.
Would a mod please delete my forum account.

 

[MemberX]

It would be a shame to lose your wealth of knowledge from the board J. My opinion that I placed on the board is aimed at those who breed without regard for where the pigs have come from, lethals, inbreading it all leads to major problems for the pigs. I have an inbred pig here who may be pregnant, the original owner got in too deep she realises that and put it right.

One thing about this forum it has morals, there is no exception. You cannot rescue and breed, the two are polar opposites. Many forums allow both and it doesn't work out, too many arguments. I know we can have minor disagreements here but because of the 'rules' that are abided by I find this is one of the better forums for cavy care. There are more extreme forums out there who really go to town on posters who breed.

 

[boureki]

For what it's worth Juniper, I don't believe that the majority of us agree with the statement that you quoted in your post. You will have seen evidence of this from the subsequent replies to that same quoted post.

I also don't wish to get into a breeding specific discussion as it's obviously against the forum rules, but it's clear from many of your posts you do indeed have a lot of quality knowledge on pigs that you have been happy to share.

I will be sending you a PM shortly.

Julie

 

[boureki]

I'd just like to add that in case it was not clear by my post on page one of this thread, this topic was NOT started by the apparent OP, Shrike-xX, it was split from the FreeAds thread that had deviated off topic. The title of this subsequent thread was MY title and is intended to highlight why education is important.

 

[MemberX]

Yep Julie to me this thread is about educating those who are just starting in guinea pig care and not shooting them down or emailing people who are putting animals up on free ads with abuse etc.

It's not about breeding v rescue at all.

 

[teadragon]

I don't think that e-mailing the people who post free-ads is going to do any good except to be seen as a flame from a animal lover on a crusade. By the time animals are posted on free-ad sites the deed has already been done and the poster is already rubbing their hands in anticipation of what responses/offers they will get.

Perhaps they're getting rid of the animals because they wanted to teach/show off the art of reproduction using a guinea pig to their children.
Perhaps they're trying to profit from an accidental or intentional litter.
Perhaps they are just simply ignorant of what can happen to a free pet or of rescues or are afraid of being judged.

In some of these cases e-mail-attacking the poster of the ad will float over deaf ears.

I also hope that your e-mails were not attacks, I believe that flaming a user online can result in legal action if you happen to hit someone who has enough knowledge/money to initiate legal proceedings. (I can paraphrase the statute but unless actually asked I can't be bothered rummaging for my law book)

As for your plan/intentions to legislate breeding... before you go forward with this you need to work out exactly what you want to legislate. The law/laws are incredibly complicated and can be easily misinterpreted or removed from their original meaning by tricksy-lawyers seeking to defend their clients.

Do you want to cover all breeding or just breeding pet animals... do you want breeders to have a license... will there be a fine for litters from unlicensed breeders... remember this will also have people who adopt a pregnant sow fined too. How do you think we should regulate and enforce this?

I'm sure there's a motion (was a motion?) to be passed related to dog breeders requiring a license...

 

[MemberX]

I think there is more chance of a law being passed for people to only have a couple of children each rather than a law being passed to stop animals breeding. If it happened what would happen to those people that did it? Our jails are full as it is, you don't get life for murder nowadays!

I don't think it is possible. And in all honesty, I love my animals I really do but the government put people first and I do follow that line of thought. Of course animal cruelty should be dealt with and people should be charged if they commit a crime but other than that I don't see how anything else can work?

 

[Wiebke]

Sadly this forum has changed, I think I realised how much it had changed when I read the thread about Teddies recently (the thread started with some older posts). From being a “rescue friendly....breeders we don’t want details thanks†sort of forum it has changed to something I no longer wish to be involved in.
Would a mod please delete my forum account.[/QUOTE]


I posted on that thread, not realising that it was an old one, as I have just adopted a couple of stunning, but very shy teddy girls that have obviously been bred simply for the sake of money, hadn't been handled and then sold to a family that lost interest pretty quickly on finding themselves with a pair of wild little animals with razor sharp claws instead of cuddly pets.

If I have offended you inadvertedly on this background, I am sorry. I haven't got a problem with responsible breeders who care about their animals and how they place them, if they give them away at all. I grew up with some lovely breeder's piggies that lived healthy and very long lives; but I am very angry about the other irresponsible lot that breed for money only - as do most posters on this thread, if you read carefully!

The point on this board is how much you care about your pets and their wellbeing!

 

[lindsecm]

It's kind of like PETA.....sometimes they are so radical that they really hurt their cause. They are seen as a complete joke here and are not take seriously. If you fly off the handle and come off abrasive, you will probably be ignored.

I think as long as you go about it the right way and choose words very carefully that you can be effective. There have been a few times on here that someone has been flat out attacked - putting myself in their position I would have looked elsewhere for advice (and who knows where that could lead). Having said that, I do value the information I have received from here...just explaining how sometimes it can be misinterpreted and taken personally, and in essence, hurting the cause.

I really hope I don't ruffle any feathers...I dearly love all of my animals and wish I could help more, but there is only so much I can do - only so much time, room, and money.

-just realized it took me 20 minutes to articulate that...so its in response to the OP-