naughty dog in the park:

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doglovinpiggylover

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embarrassed to say it was my dog.

When we took the dogs last night, they go off the leads and play with a ball. Jet (whippet) is only interested in the ball, but, very very occasionally he will be distracted by another dog if it comes running towards him. Now, he is a rescue dog and we arent sure if he would bite another dog or not, he lives with our other dog Heidi and they bite all the time, but we are positive it is playing, however, i dont know if he would be the same with other dogs.

When we are walking him he gets all uppity when other dogs are walking past us, he barks and pulls etc. we got him a halti head collar and try to distract him as much as possible when they are near and it is slightly better, but he still does it.

Anyway, in the park last night, a man had two dogs with him, a big one and a little one, the little one came running over to us and Jet started to chase it. I cant be completely sure, but i think he may have nipped it on its back, but it wasnt hurt or anything, and they carried on running about.

We tried to distract him with the ball, and he did keep coming back, but as soon as the dog ran to us again, he was off again.

I would be really grateful for any advice anyone can give us over this problem as a i definately do not want to have to walk him on a lead forever, he loves running and playing ball.

I also wonder if i sort one problem, will it sort the other. Basically what i need is for him to come back when i call and not to react to other dogs when out walking on the lead.

Please, any advice?

Thank you for reading. I feel like i have a scally dog!! :(
 
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not that it helps your problem but I have a dog with 'small dog' syndrome.
He feels the need to act big and hard in front of rotties, staffys, g/s, boxers etc anything that's big and butch.
He kicks off like some little chav that's been on cider on a park :red.
The number of dog owner that stare at me in disbelief is unreal whilst their dogs look on and think ummm breakfast.
 

AudioHeart

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We have the same problem with taz, for the past ten years! We rescued her when she was one from the RSPCA. She's fine with some dogs, plays happily with them comes back when you call her. But sometimes she develops 'selective hearing' and will not come back no matter what you try (treats, toys, jumping-up-and-down-waving-your-arms-in-the-air) Taz is also fussy, some dogs shes fine with but the next one who comes along she decides she doesnt like him so has a go at the dog, snapping and barking.

We've tried all the tips and tricks suggested by the lady who wrote the book and tv series 'Its me or dog' but nothing seems to work! Including lead training where when you see a dog and she starts pulling you turn the other way, i tried lots of different techniques over the summer holidays when i was younger...:(

We just let her off now when its quiet as its easier. I find it difficult when some dog owners get all huffy with you cause yor dog wont come back or do as she is told! Even though i explain shes a rescue, and we're still working on her behaviour.

Perhaps a dog socialisation class might help? Our local vets runs dog socialisation classes weekly :) Good luck!
 
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AudioHeart

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Double post :)
 
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doglovinpiggylover

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yes we have selective too. I mean he ALWAYS hears his bowl if it moves even a millimetre!

Sometimes i think, just leave them to sort it out, you cant get along with everyone, but i just dread something bad happening. Other people have said this to me also.

:{
 

Pepperdog

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firstly having had experience with sighthounds I know that they do playfight with each other in a different way to other breeds, its called bitey face (which is the same with most dogs, just more vocal and can seem more veroceous as they are quick)

If a dog is soft mouthed while having a bundle then they are playing and by soft mouthed I mean lips relaxed (sometimes you can see teeth but they wont be bared), air snapping, hitting each other with open mouths - again lips are down and soft eyes. An example of bitey face [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0vIjiMTQo4[/ame]

However I feel that the little dog and possibly other dogs that takes jet's fancy are neing "coursed" by jet - which in itself is not an issue if he practises restraint, but if he gets involved in his prey drive and nips, it can cause injury to the other dogs - I would advise using a proper muzzle to protect him and other dogs

a good example of two well matched lurchers "coursing" each other, but showing good manners as well - it looks pretty full on but they are high energy dogs when the prey drive kicks in, yet both manage to not bite each other
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aF8ng_sIO0&feature=fvst[/ame]

this would be a dog not showing restraint, at simulated coursing all dogs are muzzled for just such a reason - no dogs come to harm this way
4003771307_2a384c345c.jpg

and another pair
4003759685_07b835fa04.jpg


pepper wearing her lightweight plastic muzzle (I used to let her have a fun go - didnt care if she won or lost)
4893472363_bf811c7ace.jpg

and in her everyday muzzle which she wears when she goes off the lead as she finds litter (food) and eats it, which then makes her ill mallethead She isnt bothered by this at all, but I do remove it when she is focused on me and her toy as she cant play with her ball or frisbee with it on.
4696470375_5acbd4b3fa.jpg


I can recommend anyone having a look at this link http://www.youtube.com/user/pamelamarxsen this lady has some ideas on how a clicker and some training can make life a little easier. I had a foster who was fear aggressive and by just using a clicker and lots of patience he got to know some friends and this first step helped him onto his forever home which he lives in to this day.
 

Pepperdog

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I am not a trainer but have been around dogs for a fair amount of time and am fairly good at reading body language, I can go more into depth on ways that may help anyone having a problem with their recall, or selective deafness (pepper has bouts of it too), or possible problems with over excited play. But for all dog behaviour issues it is impossible to diagnose on line, advice from a behaviourist/trainer who comes to you to assess the dog is always recommended and it takes time and patience to re-train your dog to not exhibit this unwanted behaviours.

It is late at night an I have to go to work tomorrow, but I will see if I can help if you wanted me to.
 

doglovinpiggylover

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pepperdog, i cant take all this in right now as its late, but, thank you so much i will have a look at it all tomorrow.

I really appreciate any help x>>
 

Pepperdog

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pepperdog, i cant take all this in right now as its late, but, thank you so much i will have a look at it all tomorrow.

I really appreciate any help x>>

I dont want to come across as holier than thou but I have been there and done that - the dog I adopted (that went wrong) was brilliant recall wise but as soon as another dog was around he was very OTT with play and would turn it into a chase game which is self rewarding in itself and hard to control, especially when they are running in all directions at 40mph + I always muzzled him off lead as a precaution, and I dont want to come across as saying jet is dangerous or out of control and needs to be muzzled for that reason.

I muzzle pepper to stop her eating things she shouldnt, I muzzled my foster boy as it was in the paperwork to do so - these dogs are often unknown and its better to be safe than cost the rescue money from accidents, and I muzzled the new boy when I had him again as a precaution. I dont always muzzle and I have allowed pepper to play with other dogs without a muzzle on (only cos she couldnt eat anything) so I always think they are a very useful tool to have. The proper sighthound muzzles are lightweight and designed for them specifically, unlike the baskerville or the fabric muzzles that would not allow space for them to open their mouths to pant, drink or even eat treats, I thought it best to show you these type as they are the right kind should you decide to go for one.

Sadly in these times a lot of people have out of control dogs and it puts pressure on those of us that have dogs with minor issues, I would hate for you to be labled as having a nasty dog when he is practising his natural instincts, just rather enthusiasticly and sadly in the wrong way. I was very aware of how much of an impact my new boy was to other peoples dogs and I took every precaution possible, including making sure he was back on the lead when other dogs were about till I knew he could play nicely with them. If an owner (as not all of them understand) sees a dog "biting" theirs, they get rather upset and can lead to abuse (or a report to the dog warden)to the owner, which is why I suggest for the moment if he is likely to run off to play, he should be protected from any potential issues, and the other dog is protected by any accidental pinching/nipping/biting from Jet - some dogs forget bite inhabition when over excited and this is what you are preventing from happening.

I would also suggest a harness (a fixed one not one like a lupi that tightens) and a long line or lunge line, very useful tools in teaching your dogs to listen to you while giving them the space to choose their own options - yet you can stop them running off as they are still on the lead. But you MUST wear gloves when using a long line to protect your hands and skin - dont want rope burns (I learnt the hard way). When I took the foster who had to stay on the lead I used one to give him space and practise recall with him. He had the choice to go to the end of the lead or come to me, he chose the right one to come to me for food (smelly food is always a brilliant attention keeper), if he chose to go away, he wouldnt go far as he was still on the lead and I could get him back.

I hope I am not leacturing, I am trying to give you options to think about, we have all had times when the dog turns tail and boggs off but having had pepper for as long as I have I trust her to come back and not get into anything more naughty than begging food off strangers rolleyes and believe me there were times she practically stuck her fingers up to me and went elsewhere :{ And I am not saying Jet is nasty, he is forgetting the animal he is chasing is a dog, instinct is taking over so I want to help you gain a bit more control over the sighthound in him.
 
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doglovinpiggylover

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Thanks for all this great information Pepperdog. Watching these vids is like watching my dogs! They play fight like this all the time which does not bother me at all as i know if it gets serious usually one of them backs down, but i dont know if Jet will do this with other dogs.

I dont know what to do now though. Do i carry on taking him but put a muzzle on him and just take it off when no one else is about? or would you suggest just carrying on and in between do recall practice sessions with a long training leash?

I have a basket type muzzle for him, but will look for a special one for sighthounds as i dont want him to be uncomfortable.

I really really appreciate the help by the way, feel free to lecture away!
 

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I love lurchers and greyhounds, my rescue lurcher sometimes rushes up and barks and then runs away, it annoys me but she is scared my friends whippet also does this, maybe it is a sighthound thing x:)p:)p
 

Pepperdog

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Thanks for all this great information Pepperdog. Watching these vids is like watching my dogs! They play fight like this all the time which does not bother me at all as i know if it gets serious usually one of them backs down, but i dont know if Jet will do this with other dogs.

I dont know what to do now though. Do i carry on taking him but put a muzzle on him and just take it off when no one else is about? or would you suggest just carrying on and in between do recall practice sessions with a long training leash?

I have a basket type muzzle for him, but will look for a special one for sighthounds as i dont want him to be uncomfortable.

I really really appreciate the help by the way, feel free to lecture away!

I would say a bit of both, if there is nobody about then I see no reason why you cant let them play fetch together or have a chase with each other - afterall there is nothing better for a hound than running about with another hound who likes the same games.

When other dogs are about I always see that as a brilliant time to do some training with them - and exercising the mind is as important as the body, you can work on a bit of recall, a little bit of games on the lead (and then they associate the lead as not that bad, also it stops them rebelling against coming back on the lead - I will elaborate in a bit), and even the most important tool in any dog owners training vocabulary - a reliable "leave" 8)

I think a message to sophieW would be a fab idea, it is so much easier to help people with their dogs when you see the behaviour for real and can see if its a bit of OTT play or if he is switching into prey drive.
 

Pepperdog

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for everyone who is struggling with recall:

*Do you let your dog off, let it play about then cant get them back on lead
*Do you have your walk then just put them on lead (or in the car) and go right on home
* does your dog tend to look at you then carry on doing what it was doing or just not aknowledge once you have let them off the lead

The biggest mistake people do is they let their dog off, have the walk or play sessions, plonk them back on the lead and then leave the park/walk off home. It might seem fine to you, but to the dog, the lead can mean end of fun and thus they try to avoid coming back to you for the end of fun lead on time.

tips for a more reliable recall
1) never chase after your dog (unless they are at real risk of harm, they will just play an even better game than coming back)
2) treats or toys that they like are your bribery tools, you must be the best thing in their life and much more fun than that other dog in the distance
3) putting your dog on the lead and playing a game with them on lead or doing some basic training, then letting them off again will keep the dog guessing when the fun is over
4) be full of fun and never shout at them when they do eventually come back, why would they want to come back if all they get is yelled at
5) if you are in a safe place to do so, hide from them, change direction during the walk - you are running the show, not following them (plus it keeps them looking for you - or checking in with you). If they are standing just too far away, drop down on the ground and pretend to look for something in the grass/on the ground, they normally cant resist seeing what you are looking at.

I have on occasion when pepper bogs off shouted (not at her, towards her) "BYE THEN" and turned the other way and walked off - she will often come back to me. I had to whistle train her as she knew most of our walks I was just a few yards away and ignored my recall - even looking up with a "yea in a minute" look and carried on doing what she was doing. The whistle meant "come now", its a constant sound, it doesnt sound angry, it carries a good distance and you can teach them what ever combination of whistles you want - whether its a constant whistle, three pips or 4, or what ever you fancy to do - but be careful as other dog owners whistles may also attract your dogs attention (pepper uses this as an excuse to say hello rolleyes ). I have also hidden behind trees or shrubs (keeping an eye on her) waiting for her to realise I am no longer waiting for madame to return in her own sweet time, but it really must be in a safe place.

Its great to practise recall at home, in the garden and then on walks with no distractions about, then slowly build up the distractions till they are listening to you. Make it a game, make it fun - and yes I have even run in the other direction waving my arms like a loony to look really interesting to my dog - it works
 

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my lurchers recall is brilliant, even came straight back to me when chasing a deer, can`t quite say the same for my rescue greyhound!:)) gyp stops in her tracks with a whistle and sits beside me, love her to bits, she was a cruelty case locked in a crate living in her own mess bless her.. she is a happy dog now.x)x)
 

doglovinpiggylover

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awwww poor baby, my other dog whippy x breed is sooo nervous with being mistreated when a pup, god i HATE some people
 
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