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Specialist Need Advice From Someone With Rear Leg Amputation

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MellyPelly

MellyPelly

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Hi all

I am seeking advice from experienced handlers of guinea pigs with possible simular situation. I am a recent owner of 3 x beautiful sows approx 4mths old. I have 2 young children & knowing how delicate guineas are I never let the kids pick up/hold the pigs w/out supervision. Their two story hutch in the yard has locks to prevent my kids getting in w/out my knowledge. Problem was we had some freakish weather & the temp dropped to 3°c at night & I didn't want to leave the pigs out at night. I brought them inside in an emergency large crate for the night & the kids got into the cage early while we were asleep. Long story short my daughter accidentally dropped Coco Bella & her back leg was broken. I was devistated as we live in a very small rural town 4 hrs drive from nearest exotic vet. I took her to the only vet in town & he rang the exotic vet to discuss options & get some advice. Unfortunately he had near no experience with treating guineas. My options were PTS or amputate rear leg & give her a fighting chance. I know some of you might not agree with my choice but she is much loved, young, strong & in excellent health. I felt she deserved a chance at life. She came through the operation well & he did a neat job taken off at the hip. She is on .2ml twice day of meloxacim 0.5mg p/ml & once a day 0.1ml of Enrotril (antibiotic), he didn't have Bactrim liquid. Post op the vet has little idea on how to advise me to care for her due to limited experience with piggies. Her operation was 5 days ago & she is such a brave piggie. She has been eating on her own since day one but much less than normal. Day 2 she crashed a bit & stopped pooing for a day. But she seems to be stable & a bit better each day. I have been doing a lot of hand feeding fresh veggies & fresh grass plus she has her oxbow pellets & timothy hay.I am also giving her extra water from a syringe to keep her well hydrated. So far she has lost weight about 50 grms. Some of weight loss will be minus the leg she was about 586 grms when she came home. Pre op weight was 615 grms now she is 565grms. She is weeing & pooing everyday & she is eating a lot of her droppings plus I am giving her some droppings from my healthy guineas to help her GI system due to antibiotics. I don't know if I should try force feeding her to prevent further weight loss or just monitor her closely? I read up on it & some people say that FF can be very stressful for them. I rang my vet today concerned about weight loss he doesn't have critical care & by the time he gets order it could be too late. He said maybe we should drop her pain meds back to .1ml twice a day to see if her appetite improves. Her wound is clean & dry & doesn't look infected & stitches are coming out on Wed 19th. Coco is getting around the cage fine & seems quite comfortable. I am concerned that the quantity of food she is eating is not enough. Plus she is being very very picky rejecting favourite veggies & grass even sometimes. I read if critical care is not available I could grind her Timothy hay pellets & mix with water to make a thick paste for syringe hand feeding. Should I risk stressing her & supplement her eating with a few hand feeds or wait one day to see if she picks up once on lower dose pain relief? Vet is not sure how long she needs to stay on antibiotics or pain med. But thinks we should stop antibiotics in a few days and pain meds in abut a week? I am worried if we make the wrong decisions she could die & I don't think a 4 1/2 hr bumpy car drive to nearest exoctic vet will be safe either. Any advice would be so appreciated right now! I am also wondering if she will be able to go back in with the other piggies (her sibling) once stitches are out? She is missing them terribly & I suspect this could be part of the problem with her eating. I am letting them have supervised cuddle/feed sessions on my lap & she eats more grass. But if I put the grass in her cage she picks at it or it remains untouched. When can she go back with the other piggies? I was going to wait till her stitches are out at least. Also I might have to consider making her an inside pig & buy a new cage? Current cage is a two storey hutch with ramp to get to sleeping room upstairs? Cheers
 
ahhh brave little piggie .. wishing her a good recovery x
 
MellyPelly said:
Hi all

I am seeking advice from experienced handlers of guinea pigs with possible simular situation. I am a recent owner of 3 x beautiful sows approx 4mths old. I have 2 young children & knowing how delicate guineas are I never let the kids pick up/hold the pigs w/out supervision. Their two story hutch in the yard has locks to prevent my kids getting in w/out my knowledge. Problem was we had some freakish weather & the temp dropped to 3°c at night & I didn't want to leave the pigs out at night. I brought them inside in an emergency large crate for the night & the kids got into the cage early while we were asleep. Long story short my daughter accidentally dropped Coco Bella & her back leg was broken. I was devistated as we live in a very small rural town 4 hrs drive from nearest exotic vet. I took her to the only vet in town & he rang the exotic vet to discuss options & get some advice. Unfortunately he had near no experience with treating guineas. My options were PTS or amputate rear leg & give her a fighting chance. I know some of you might not agree with my choice but she is much loved, young, strong & in excellent health. I felt she deserved a chance at life. She came through the operation well & he did a neat job taken off at the hip. She is on .2ml twice day of meloxacim 0.5mg p/ml & once a day 0.1ml of Enrotril (antibiotic), he didn't have Bactrim liquid. Post op the vet has little idea on how to advise me to care for her due to limited experience with piggies. Her operation was 5 days ago & she is such a brave piggie. She has been eating on her own since day one but much less than normal. Day 2 she crashed a bit & stopped pooing for a day. But she seems to be stable & a bit better each day. I have been doing a lot of hand feeding fresh veggies & fresh grass plus she has her oxbow pellets & timothy hay.I am also giving her extra water from a syringe to keep her well hydrated. So far she has lost weight about 50 grms. Some of weight loss will be minus the leg she was about 586 grms when she came home. Pre op weight was 615 grms now she is 565grms. She is weeing & pooing everyday & she is eating a lot of her droppings plus I am giving her some droppings from my healthy guineas to help her GI system due to antibiotics. I don't know if I should try force feeding her to prevent further weight loss or just monitor her closely? I read up on it & some people say that FF can be very stressful for them. I rang my vet today concerned about weight loss he doesn't have critical care & by the time he gets order it could be too late. He said maybe we should drop her pain meds back to .1ml twice a day to see if her appetite improves. Her wound is clean & dry & doesn't look infected & stitches are coming out on Wed 19th. Coco is getting around the cage fine & seems quite comfortable. I am concerned that the quantity of food she is eating is not enough. Plus she is being very very picky rejecting favourite veggies & grass even sometimes. I read if critical care is not available I could grind her Timothy hay pellets & mix with water to make a thick paste for syringe hand feeding. Should I risk stressing her & supplement her eating with a few hand feeds or wait one day to see if she picks up once on lower dose pain relief? Vet is not sure how long she needs to stay on antibiotics or pain med. But thinks we should stop antibiotics in a few days and pain meds in abut a week? I am worried if we make the wrong decisions she could die & I don't think a 4 1/2 hr bumpy car drive to nearest exoctic vet will be safe either. Any advice would be so appreciated right now! I am also wondering if she will be able to go back in with the other piggies (her sibling) once stitches are out? She is missing them terribly & I suspect this could be part of the problem with her eating. I am letting them have supervised cuddle/feed sessions on my lap & she eats more grass. But if I put the grass in her cage she picks at it or it remains untouched. When can she go back with the other piggies? I was going to wait till her stitches are out at least. Also I might have to consider making her an inside pig & buy a new cage? Current cage is a two storey hutch with ramp to get to sleeping room upstairs? Cheers
Click to expand...

Hi and welcome!

Her picky eating means that she is still not fully recovered and likely in pain. I would in any way continue with the painkillers and also with the antibiotic.

Would your local vet consider staying in contact with a more knowledgable vet over your case and follow their advice?
This is the one I have found recommended on Guinea Lynx for Queensland:
South Brisbane
Brisbane Bird and Exotics Vet
Corner Kessels Rd & Springfield St Macgregor QLD 4109
Their website can be found at http://www.bbevs.com.au/contact.html
This vet specialises in exotics and has years of experience working with guinea pigs. She is equipped with all the tools and knowledge necessary to properly diagnose and treat your guinea pig.

Please look online to see whether any recovery food products are available in Australia, but until then, you can get by mushing up pellets. You will find our syringe feeding guide helpful as to care best for a guinea pig that is not eating fully. We have included tips for when recovery foods are not available. Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Make sure that the wound is and the area where she is now putting her weight on are checked regularly and cared for. Look out for any signs of swelling or sudden complete loss of appetite, which can indicate an infection. Weigh her daily at the same time in the feeding cycle as a weigh of controlling her health and food intake. You can use a walk-in padded cardboard box to pick her up and weigh her in etc. if you wish in order to keep any discomfort minimal.

I have contacted the closest good standard guinea pig in North Brisbane on your behalf to see whether they can recommend the vets they are using for ongoing support for your guinea pig.
 
Wiebke, Thanks for your quick respose & great advise & tips. I will check out the syringe feeding tips & try that tomorrow. I will have a chat to my vet here about consulting the vet you recommended in Brisbane. Not sure how that will go to be honest I felt I was getting a bit of the brush off when I expressed concerns today. In different circumstances aka living in a city I would have gone straight to a proper experienced exotic vet. Anyway, I will try & order some critical care or similar product if available tomorrow from the vet you recommended. I am praying that my round the clock care will help her pull through. Cheers
 
MellyPelly said:
Wiebke, Thanks for your quick respose & great advise & tips. I will check out the syringe feeding tips & try that tomorrow. I will have a chat to my vet here about consulting the vet you recommended in Brisbane. Not sure how that will go to be honest I felt I was getting a bit of the brush off when I expressed concerns today. In different circumstances aka living in a city I would have gone straight to a proper experienced exotic vet. Anyway, I will try & order some critical care or similar product if available tomorrow from the vet you recommended. I am praying that my round the clock care will help her pull through. Cheers
Click to expand...

I hope to hear back from Queensland Guinea Pig Refuge in North Brisbane tomorrow (it is not exactly social hours where you are!). They are getting a lot of guinea pigs in bad state coming into rescue, so their vet should be pretty experienced with guinea pigs and may be willing to advise. They operate to a very good standard and are the closest place to you I know of that I trust.
 
You are doing a great job! I think you made the right decision for what it's worth. Animals are amazingly good at adapting and you sound like the perfect piggy slave to support her! Wiebke is very experienced in the ways of the guinea, so you're in good hands. Keep us posted!
 
Elwickcavies said:
You are doing a great job! I think you made the right decision for what it's worth. Animals are amazingly good at adapting and you sound like the perfect piggy slave to support her! Wiebke is very experienced in the ways of the guinea, so you're in good hands. Keep us posted!
Click to expand...
Thanks for your support I have definitely been slaving but she is worth it & deserves it! I have been stressing about my decision to amputate & worried about her quality of life in the future. But I did feel that being so young she should adjust quite well with maybe some caging changes to suit her needs. Wiebke has been a shining beacon of knowledge during a difficult time. Thanks so much for the support. Cheers Mel
 
I have been able to put MellyPelly overnight (for us in Britain) in contact with a piggy savvy vet in Queensland whose recommendations her local vet is willing to follow, so her girl is now in good hands.
 
Wiebke said:
I have been able to put MellyPelly overnight (for us in Britain) in contact with a piggy savvy vet in Queensland whose recommendations her local vet is willing to follow, so her girl is now in good hands.
Click to expand...
Hi Wiebke
Just a quick note to let you know that coco seemed a lot more like herself today. More active, curious & eating a lot more on her own. She was 576 grams when I weighed her this evening...up 4grams from yesterday Seems the hand feeding & metomide are doing the trick. She seems to be stable thank god. She had the last dose of her antibiotics today(day 7 post op). I am a bit nervous... could she still get an infection even though the wound externally is clean & dry? Cheers Melissa
 
MellyPelly said:
Hi Wiebke
Just a quick note to let you know that coco seemed a lot more like herself today. More active, curious & eating a lot more on her own. She was 576 grams when I weighed her this evening...up 4grams from yesterday Seems the hand feeding & metomide are doing the trick. She seems to be stable thank god. She had the last dose of her antibiotics today(day 7 post op). I am a bit nervous... could she still get an infection even though the wound externally is clean & dry? Cheers Melissa
Click to expand...

It is great news that she is picking up; hopefully more so with each passing day now.

There is a small chance of an infection in the coming weeks. Just keep it in mind and contact Steve asap if you notice the signs I have told you to look out for (sudden loss or change of appetite/weight loss, heat/swelling in the operated area). But I would certainly not lose sleep over it and just integrate it into a routine check as you check your piggies for any signs of illness.

You may find these threads here helpful in learning to distinguish what is normal and what not and when to see a vet.
Guinea pig body quirks
Early Signs Of Illness
Should my piggie see a vet? - a quick guide
 
Hi Wiebke
I hope you have been having a ball with your visitor Sorry I haven't been doing updates I have been in a haze of sleep deprevation & sickness. I was fighting the flu when Coco got sick & with all the broken sleep from hand feeding I am not bouncing back quickly! Then Sunday my daughter came down sick flu & middle ear infection so we ended up at hospital emergency. Then my son came down sick with same flu on Tuesday. So I was up half the night with his croup cough & ear ache. My poor babies...

Coco crashed a bit again on Sunday a/noon became less active, hiding in house, not pooing much & seemed in pain. On Monday morning her weight was down to 546grms again. So I took her back to the vet Monday morning panicked about possible infection.

He checked her, took out stitches & said no signs of infection she seems fine despite weight loss. I begged he ring Steve for a consult opinion. Which he did & It was decided to give her another metaclopamide injection & up her Meloxicam pain med. Plus to add some Zantac liquid twice a day.

Unfortunately the Zantac had to be ordered in pharmacy didn't have any so it took 2 days to get here. She started that this evening. Also my critical care I ordered Fri only just arrived today! We are rural so post is so slow to arrive here Arrrh. I have had 2 days of hand feeding 6 times a day & she has been sitting around 551-554 grams... down about 25 grams from Sat. Today finally she is up a little to about 560grms & I am hoping the critical care improves that. Her poos are still not normal miss shaped with pinched of tails & small or some really long. But she is pooling & weeping regularly thanks to hand feeding. But she is chewing everything! Eating boxes, towels, towel tags, plastic piggie house (which I switched for a cardboard box to prevent her injesting plastic) & she has eaten a massive amount of that! I am thinking her pain is still not under control. She never had narcoids post op only metacam & we discovered(1 week post op) after chatting to Steve that the dose was not high enough. He said if she is still distressed we may need to add a opioid. I will try & chat to Steve tomorrow morning & get an appointment with my vet. She was seeming happier this evening after having a few feeds of the critical care this afternoon. I am hoping it will sort out her gut & funny pooing in a few days. Will keep you posted Cheers Mel
 
MellyPelly said:
Hi Wiebke
I hope you have been having a ball with your visitor Sorry I haven't been doing updates I have been in a haze of sleep deprevation & sickness. I was fighting the flu when Coco got sick & with all the broken sleep from hand feeding I am not bouncing back quickly! Then Sunday my daughter came down sick flu & middle ear infection so we ended up at hospital emergency. Then my son came down sick with same flu on Tuesday. So I was up half the night with his croup cough & ear ache. My poor babies...

Coco crashed a bit again on Sunday a/noon became less active, hiding in house, not pooing much & seemed in pain. On Monday morning her weight was down to 546grms again. So I took her back to the vet Monday morning panicked about possible infection.

He checked her, took out stitches & said no signs of infection she seems fine despite weight loss. I begged he ring Steve for a consult opinion. Which he did & It was decided to give her another metaclopamide injection & up her Meloxicam pain med. Plus to add some Zantac liquid twice a day.

Unfortunately the Zantac had to be ordered in pharmacy didn't have any so it took 2 days to get here. She started that this evening. Also my critical care I ordered Fri only just arrived today! We are rural so post is so slow to arrive here Arrrh. I have had 2 days of hand feeding 6 times a day & she has been sitting around 551-554 grams... down about 25 grams from Sat. Today finally she is up a little to about 560grms & I am hoping the critical care improves that. Her poos are still not normal miss shaped with pinched of tails & small or some really long. But she is pooling & weeping regularly thanks to hand feeding. But she is chewing everything! Eating boxes, towels, towel tags, plastic piggie house (which I switched for a cardboard box to prevent her injesting plastic) & she has eaten a massive amount of that! I am thinking her pain is still not under control. She never had narcoids post op only metacam & we discovered(1 week post op) after chatting to Steve that the dose was not high enough. He said if she is still distressed we may need to add a opioid. I will try & chat to Steve tomorrow morning & get an appointment with my vet. She was seeming happier this evening after having a few feeds of the critical care this afternoon. I am hoping it will sort out her gut & funny pooing in a few days. Will keep you posted Cheers Mel
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Poor you! What a nightmare!
Thanks! My Saturday visitor had a good time and lots of piggy cuddles for her birthday treat... :)
At least I have got onely one sick husband (looks like a gallbladder or liver issue; still waiting for an appointment with jaundice clinic and further examinations :(). I don't envy you with having to look after your ill family and yourself as well as a seriously ill piggy. :(

Her poos indicate that her guts are still not quite working right and her food intake is on the low side, but hopefully a few days on recovery foods can address that. Her desire for cardboard also reflects her need for rough fibre; it is very common in freshly operated piggies or in guinea pigs that are recovering from a bad tummy upset.

You can additionally try to boost her guts by making "poo soup" from healthy fresh poos from her companions. You soak them in a little bit of water and then syringe the water. This contains all the good bacteria etc. that she desperately craves to help re-stock her guts. It is a bit gross, but it mimics what guinea pigs do instinctively; you often see them with their nose up their companions' bums in this situation. Poo soup is usually a great hit with ill piggies. ;)

Wishing you all the best and thank you for the update! I hope that things get easier for you again.

The weight loss can be down to either infection or pain, but it always needs to be investigated sooner than later to make sure.
 
Thanks Weibke for your kind words & encouragement. Should I take all the cardboard boxes out? Worried that the cardboard is going to stuff up her guts more cause constipation or blockage! But then she will have nothing to hide in which I figure will stress her more. Can'the put her plastic house back in as she was eating the plastic

Anyway I put her in my lap with one of the other pigs Jade who is her sister to eat fresh grass together. I noticed she was putting her nose under Jade's bottom & figured she wanted that special poo ceacotrophs. But Jade is not obliging & gets very stroppy agitated squeaking & jumps around & bites her. I was giving her poo soup when she was on antibiotics but thought she didn'the need it now. I will go back to making it again. How many times a day for poo soup? Just once or three times or every feed?

Anyway she Peps up for a while after a cuddle with Jade & eats better. There is always heaps of gentle squeaking sounds like she is sadly whinging. I suspect letting Jade know how much she misses her! Coco used to be the alpha female of our herd of 3. The other pigs seems to realize she is weak & try to pick on her a bit during lap time. If they do that I take them away from coco so she doesn't get stressed or hurt. I am hoping she can go back in with them once she is better! Cheers Mel
 
MellyPelly said:
Thanks Weibke for your kind words & encouragement. Should I take all the cardboard boxes out? Worried that the cardboard is going to stuff up her guts more cause constipation or blockage! But then she will have nothing to hide in which I figure will stress her more. Can'the put her plastic house back in as she was eating the plastic

Anyway I put her in my lap with one of the other pigs Jade who is her sister to eat fresh grass together. I noticed she was putting her nose under Jade's bottom & figured she wanted that special poo ceacotrophs. But Jade is not obliging & gets very stroppy agitated squeaking & jumps around & bites her. I was giving her poo soup when she was on antibiotics but thought she didn'the need it now. I will go back to making it again. How many times a day for poo soup? Just once or three times or every feed?

Anyway she Peps up for a while after a cuddle with Jade & eats better. There is always heaps of gentle squeaking sounds like she is sadly whinging. I suspect letting Jade know how much she misses her! Coco used to be the alpha female of our herd of 3. The other pigs seems to realize she is weak & try to pick on her a bit during lap time. If they do that I take them away from coco so she doesn't get stressed or hurt. I am hoping she can go back in with them once she is better! Cheers Mel
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I would recommend to give her poo soup twice daily for the time being until her digestion has stabilised. Leave the cardboard in; piggy guts are laid out to deal with fibre. She will automatically stop when she is better. As her wound is healing well, I would see whether putting her back with her friends (as long as they can all be safely indoors or safe and cosy outside) will actually help her recovery and perk up her appetite. Guinea pigs are usually quite caring and supportive towards companions with a disability. You will still have to check on her and feed her separately, but as long as you give her friends a tiny bit of what she is getting, they won't mob her. there may be a modicum of bonding behaviour at first.
 
Hi Wiebke, I learnt the hard way about having a safe inside as well as outside home! I had intended for them to be ONLY outside pets as we rent & are not meant to have pets in our house. So I got the double level hutch & put padlocks on all the doors to stop the kids getting into the cage every time my back was turned.

I have actually been carrying the whole hutch in now with help of hubbie & I have been putting coco's cage beside it so they can at least hear each other & smell each other. I have had to line the floor under the hutch (which is open bottom no wire) with thick garden plastic & a tonne of newspaper which I am changing twice daily to keep smell down. I only wish I had thought of that the night I panicked & brought them in I will organise to buy or make a safe backup inside cage they can all fit in for cold nights & days that are too hot! But that will have to wait till things settle. For now I will just carry the whole hutch in & out.

I am still worried she might not hold her own in her weakened state with the other piggies. They are grinding & chattering teeth & Coco is biting them & vice versa them biting her back. Then Coco sulks & goes away & squeaks sadly & non stop. They are ignoring her & eating all the grass. This is the time I normally put them back in the hutch as she gets too distressed. I might let her go in for an hour twice a day when I can observe things closely! Do you think the ramp will put too much strain on her atm?

I tried her last night in the hutch on her own & she can get up the ramp but it was an effort with only one hind leg to propel herself up! She seemed to manage down better. I was thinking of getting a big single story hutch or adding on a section to this cage with a sleeping room downstairs off the grass & enclosed so she doesn't have to go upick the ramp. I found the hot weather tips useful & I have been extremely careful to keep the hutch shaded at all times with a huge overhanging roof.

Sorry I am probably asking too many Q's but I just am on a big learning curve to try & meet her new needs & resettle her comfortably & safely with her herd. Are there any articles or links on this rebonding behaviour I could read? Or maybe I should chat with someone at the Brisbane rescue who has had lots of experience with this. Do you have a contact name & number of someone there who would be happy to chat with me to answer Q's? Cheers Mel
 
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