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need advise on Henry

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Hi, as i few of you may know my henry has been poorly. 1st vet thought it was tumour however 2nd vet that i trust told me it was teeth had overgrown which were sorted. As you all know i got him back on saturday and everything was fine until yesterday. saturday night sunday and monday he was a happy chappy but yesterday and today seems down in the dumps.

I have him on critical care and metacom for pain. his poo was fine until yesterday after noon. instead of being normal its more compacted not runny at all. just compacted is how i would explain it. he's eating other food as well do you think i should reduce the amoutn of critical care now. Also he has only put on about 35 grams since returning. it seems since yesterdya to be stablising and not doing much.

Advise needed?

CCC4 i gave him pancur this evening too so hope that will help. just eveyrtime i go to his hutch i worry i will find him dead. dont hink i could cope with another one so soon. Had 2 already december and february.

Also paid my bill already cost me £190 so far. think its cos i took him in on a saturday.
 
I seem to recall mentioning the risk of gut motility a coupel of days ago - Could be what's going on now.

It's not at all uncommon during/ after illness, especially a dental problem. The normal diet gets out of balance, and so the digestive system has a bit of a complaint about things. It *can* be fatal, but is eminently cureable if acted upon.

He needs plenty of fibre, and not powdered up "indigestible" fibre, but actual long chain fibre, as found in hay. Probiotic won't hurt although it may not actually help, depending on what's going on. I would be tempted to give 1ml of Infacol to minimise the possibility of bloat - Intestine muscles are far better at shifting solids than gasses, and gas buildups can be very serious.

Most importantly, if after plenty of hay munching he's still like this in the morning, he needs to see a vet. But not any vet, one that has a bit of a clue. The vet needs to listen to his back end (just infront and under the hips is a good place) both sides, to hear how frequent the "swoosh" of the intestine rythm is. It should be two waves a minute roughly, and steady in rythm. If not, then a dose of metachlopromide (spelling?) would be incredibly useful, this is given by injection. Depending on the severity of gut motility issues he may need this daily for a few days, he may not.

I would certainly be reducing, if not eliminationg, crit care from his diet. If his teeth are working there's no need for him to be on the syringe, and in keeping him on it he's not able to work his teeth and guts in a normal, healthy, manner. I would also suggest maybe giving him some Dill, as it's naturally quite good at reducing gas in the digestive system and piggies tend to rather like it :)
 
he doesnt seem to be able to eat the hay i had so i went and got finer hay. the hay i usually get is bales so big strands etc. but he ate a whole bowl of food over night.

ok cool will get some dill tomorrow and infacol. 1 ml seems alot though is that correct? sorry dont want to sound rude. how do * know all this? just checking and being careful. i would be the same if someone advise thigns fro my kids lol.

unless hes just depressed. would he have an infection i do stillhave some baytil? was thinking about giving him metatone tonic too but doen want to give him loads of stuff. sayign that he seemed happier when back with his brother so i will let them play more tomorrow in the day i htink might help.
 
he doesnt seem to be able to eat the hay i had so i went and got finer hay. the hay i usually get is bales so big strands etc. but he ate a whole bowl of food over night.

I've never been convinced by bales of hay - Cheaper, and in theory absolutely fine, but... I worry about storage, particularly at the shop - There could be mice, rats etc using the bales as toilets when nobody is looking! I know someone who got a free mouse (sadly only seen as he scarpered) once in a sealed pack of hay, because there were mice in the store it came from and one had made a small hole and decided to live in the bag!

I now buy my hay online from www.dustfreehay.co.uk, and although the nature of the hay can vary depending on the harvest, it is always very dry and fresh in the hessian sacks it comes in.

Might be worth getting some Excel herbage or forage, both are good quality hays, a bit pricey but likely to be healthier and with better quality control.

Good news that he ate his normal food though :)

ok cool will get some dill tomorrow and infacol. 1 ml seems alot though is that correct? sorry dont want to sound rude. how do * know all this? just checking and being careful. i would be the same if someone advise thigns fro my kids lol.

If possible, I'd nip to the 24 hour supermarket for the Infacol and if possible dill tonight. Bloat can come on pretty quickly, and Infacol is very useful to have to hand just in case. I had to the other night, Trembles, one of my girls, was a little off colour after some bagged salad that seemed to disagree with her. Better to give some when it's not needed, than not when it is!

1ml is a fair dose, but Infacol (and other baby gripe relief meds) is inert in terms of the digestive system. What it does is prevents gasses building into large pockets, and makes it easier to pass. I've frequently given 1ml at times it's been needed (or as a precaution when it might be needed), with no side effects. If bloat does rear its ugly head, then 1ml, then if no improvement, 1ml an hour later. I can't back it up with medical certificates, only that it's knowledge I have aquired over time, and used with marked success and never any downsides.

I think Gurney advises Rene something or other for the same reasons, but as I recall the particular Rene tablets suggested have changed ingredients since that was written. Plus grinding down a tablet and mixing into water is a faff compared to sucking a syringe full out a bottle :)

unless hes just depressed. would he have an infection i do stillhave some baytil? was thinking about giving him metatone tonic too but doen want to give him loads of stuff. sayign that he seemed happier when back with his brother so i will let them play more tomorrow in the day i htink might help.

He may be depressed, but then maybe he just doesn't like the hay! He may also have an infection, but as he may not I wouldn't want to say one way or the other on the Baytril idea. I know I've found myself late at night with a sick piggie and dug out the antibiotics, but I would never suggest anyone else do that! Metatone is good stuff, but as all the goodies are in a glucose solution I'd be wary in case of bloat. Best thing is probably lots of attention and a choice of foods, try and pick his mood up a little and see if he can do the work for himself. Excersize is essential for healthy gut motility, and if he's not wanting to move around much, either give him plenty of floor space and "encourage" him to move, or think about a little swimming therapy. The action of paddling with his back legs will raise his metabolic rate and stimulate his digestion. Important not to let him get too stressed, and if he's not a great swimmer just hold his back end in some warm water in a sink, being care to ensure you've got a firm hold of him so he can't hurt himself. Also he needs to be kept warm, and after a bath he needs to be dried and snuggled for quite some time.

I've used swimming therapy in piggies with poor gut motility before, one of mine was very poorly for a while and had terrible problems with her bottom. A quick splash around and things would start to make an appearance out of her, though it was a daily process till her guts got back on track.

I really can't stress enough the importance of seeing a vet with a clue as soon as possible to ascertain if this is just a mild backup in his back end, or a more serious condition for which he'd need proper treatment. I know many will suggest Buscopan, and I used to use it myself, but in rare cases it can be counterproductive and when you give it you're having to guess it's correct. Metachlopromide has to be given by a vet in an injection, so in theory at least the vet has a better idea as to whether it's required or not.
 
the bale of hay is from Scats. and its sealed. never had a problem before been using for years.

Wish i could go out and get it now however partner is in the USA and i have 2 kids fast asleep. even mum and dad have gone off to the caribbean today too. nightmare. i will get it firsting tomorrow.

infacol worked wonders with my kids and they never had colic.

I'm wondering if i give infacol 1ml, 0.5 of metatone and the metacom will that be too much? aswell as giving pancur this evening too just in case he has worms which i honestly dont think he has. My girls who were over 6 years old when they passed never had worming and they were fine. well until the end.
oh I'm still in contact with vets. will call tomorrow as i was suppose to update friday but think i need to do it sooner. They laugh at me cos my piggies are never text book but always pull through.

the fact he's eating his own is good. may be it is wind/bloating.
I'm not goign to stress him out and bath him to get swimming therapy. he's never had one before.
 
the bale of hay is from Scats. and its sealed. never had a problem before been using for years.

Pillow Wad?

Yep, look for the surprise free mouse in special packs!

I used to get Pillow Wad from our local Scats, but the quality was too variable (not to mention the puncture marks in the plastic from poor handling/ transportatioon, and we'd frequently get quite damp/ stinking packs that needed to be thrown away). Certainly better than a lot of the pet shop hays around, but I'd struggle to recomment it over the Excel range, hayexperts products, or dustfreehay.co.uk. Not sure how much Pillow Wad sells for now, but I know a 10 pack of hay from dustfree is £40 delivered - Only problem is where to put it all!

infacol worked wonders with my kids and they never had colic.

It's good stuff. I've also used Gripewater, but Infacol seems to last better once opened and is certainly effective.

I'm wondering if i give infacol 1ml, 0.5 of metatone and the metacom will that be too much? aswell as giving pancur this evening too just in case he has worms which i honestly dont think he has. My girls who were over 6 years old when they passed never had worming and they were fine. well until the end.

I've never (as far as I know) had a worm/ gut parasite problem, but I'm sure they can happen. So no idea about that side of the medication.

How much Metacam is he on? Vets usually say 1 drop a day, but I spent a bored evening measuring drops - They varied from 0.03 to 0.07ml. Given the ideal dose is 0.1ml per kilo of bodyweight, this means some doses could be well under half the required, but other doses could be reaching the upper limit in a very small piggie! When I brought this up the vet said the "one drop" was the easiest dose for many people to use, and yes, ideally you use the 0.1ml per kilo (so 0.08 for an 800g pig, and so on). I'm asking as although he probably benefits from the pain relief, there are many who believe Metacam can cause stomach issues if too high a dose/ too long a course. The same goes for appetite, too much for too long might decrease the appetite. I've not come across that personally as far as I know (hard to say if a piggie isn't eating because of meds, or the illness which is requiring the meds), but worth taking a note of.

As I said, Metatone is fine, but being so high in sugar I'd be sparing with it. I've given 0.5ml in a piggie with gut issues with no problems at all, but wouldn't want to say it's fine in all pigs!

oh I'm still in contact with vets. will call tomorrow as i was suppose to update friday but think i need to do it sooner.

There's every chance he's feeling a bit sorry for himself and a lot of cuddles and attention and he'll perk back up. BUT, it could be something more serious, and a vet with a clue is vital in determining that!

the fact he's eating his own is good. may be it is wind/bloating.
I'm not goign to stress him out and bath him to get swimming therapy. he's never had one before.

If he is gassy you'll be able to tell. His underneath around his stomach will feel a little tight, and his sides might if it's more than very minor. A gentle, light tap on his sides above his hips is a good indicator - If there's a solid sound then he's probably OK, if there's more of a hollow drum like sound then there's gas. Usually a dose of Infacol relieves the discomfort and signs of tightness, but if the reason for it is anything other than a manky salad leaf you didn't notice when giving some fresh, then it's vet time for peace of mind if nothing else.

If swimming isn't his thing, then just some floor time with a few hidey holes to explore maybe? Or put him on the bed. That usually leads to mountains of poo, it's almost like they want you to sleep in their mess, makes you more piglike and so acceptable to them!
 
Pillow Wad?


How much Metacam is he on? Vets usually say 1 drop a day, but I spent a bored evening measuring drops - They varied from 0.03 to 0.07ml. Given the ideal dose is 0.1ml per kilo of bodyweight, this means some doses could be well under half the required, but other doses could be reaching the upper limit in a very small piggie! When I brought this up the vet said the "one drop" was the easiest dose for many people to use, and yes, ideally you use the 0.1ml per kilo (so 0.08 for an 800g pig, and so on). I'm asking as although he probably benefits from the pain relief, there are many who believe Metacam can cause stomach issues if too high a dose/ too long a course. The same goes for appetite, too much for too long might decrease the appetite. I've not come across that personally as far as I know (hard to say if a piggie isn't eating because of meds, or the illness which is requiring the meds), but worth taking a note of.


he's on 4 drops twice a day...... this evenign i only gave 2 drops though cos i thought maybe it was that.

As I said, Metatone is fine, but being so high in sugar I'd be sparing with it. I've given 0.5ml in a piggie with gut issues with no problems at all, but wouldn't want to say it's fine in all pigs!



There's every chance he's feeling a bit sorry for himself and a lot of cuddles and attention and he'll perk back up. BUT, it could be something more serious, and a vet with a clue is vital in determining that!



If he is gassy you'll be able to tell. His underneath around his stomach will feel a little tight, and his sides might if it's more than very minor. A gentle, light tap on his sides above his hips is a good indicator - If there's a solid sound then he's probably OK, if there's more of a hollow drum like sound then there's gas. Usually a dose of Infacol relieves the discomfort and signs of tightness, but if the reason for it is anything other than a manky salad leaf you didn't notice when giving some fresh, then it's vet time for peace of mind if nothing else.

If swimming isn't his thing, then just some floor time with a few hidey holes to explore maybe? Or put him on the bed. That usually leads to mountains of poo, it's almost like they want you to sleep in their mess, makes you more piglike and so acceptable to them!

will see how floor time with brother goes tomorrow. did it at 5pm today and gavehim 2 hours. will see. thanks for your advise. much appreciated. will do the infacol and see what happens. its just surprising his weight isnt going up faster like i expect cos he's eating food and eating crit care. i will update * tomorrow thx again. michele
 
My approach for bloat is 2ml of Dentinox Colic Drops, together with a crushed Buscopan tablet mixed with water and syringe fed. Pain relief is very important. Keep the pig moving. If the abdomen is distended and, as previously posted, it sounds like a drum, the pig could be in a desperate state. There is something that can be done.
However, since I have been told off and have been awarded one infraction point for posting forms of treatment which, whilst perfectly legitimate, have been deemed not to be suitable on a forum where those reading may not know the limit of their abilties you will need to pm me
 
I've never heard of the dose for Infacol being so high. I have seen elsewhere that is is half the infant dose (0.3ml) at 0.15ml. It does the trick with my gassy piggie, she had an early stage of bloat and has ongoing minor issues with small amounts of gas. Be sure to combine the meds with abdominal massage to ensure the gas breaks down and moves through the system. It is quite something to feel the gas bubbles breaking down and moving under your fingers!
It is good to know the dose can be upped to that level in more severe cases.

I wouldn't worry about giving Panacur now Jacques; if it was going to help it would have helped with the first dose. Once every three months, combined with Ivomec, as a routine worming treatment is up to you. Personal experience tends to decide such preventative treatment.
 
I've never heard of the dose for Infacol being so high. I have seen elsewhere that is is half the infant dose (0.3ml) at 0.15ml. It does the trick with my gassy piggie, she had an early stage of bloat and has ongoing minor issues with small amounts of gas. Be sure to combine the meds with abdominal massage to ensure the gas breaks down and moves through the system. It is quite something to feel the gas bubbles breaking down and moving under your fingers!
It is good to know the dose can be upped to that level in more severe cases.

I wouldn't worry about giving Panacur now Jacques; if it was going to help it would have helped with the first dose. Once every three months, combined with Ivomec, as a routine worming treatment is up to you. Personal experience tends to decide such preventative treatment.

Oh same with me, and i'm in OZ i got given my dosage from my vet and then i checked with you all on a post like nearly 2 years ago......
i'd go on the lower side of dosage.......
and then go see a vet pronto
 
oh great i gave him 1ml this morning only just seen other messages. he is fine though. i have cut down the crit care cos that is whats being pooed out. he's happy eating and been putting crit care in a bowl with dill mixed in which he likes. i am syrpinge feeding cirt care twice a day. he's still going between 654-674g in weight. been giving metatone too to perk him up think i just need to be patient and just wait and see.
 
oh great i gave him 1ml this morning only just seen other messages. he is fine though. i have cut down the crit care cos that is whats being pooed out. he's happy eating and been putting crit care in a bowl with dill mixed in which he likes. i am syrpinge feeding cirt care twice a day. he's still going between 654-674g in weight. been giving metatone too to perk him up think i just need to be patient and just wait and see.

Every piggie is different, but I've never had a problem myself with 1ml of Infacol. And thanks to certain incompetent vets I've had more than the odd run in with eating problems causing gut problems grrrr

Trembles had 1ml the other night when she was a bit "off", Pimps has been getting 1ml from time to time... The thing to remember is the active ingredient works on gas bubbles in the intestine, but isn't absorbed into the system. So unlike things such as antibiotics, NSAIDS etc there's minimal (I won't go so far as to say zero) danger giving that bit extra.

I checked my bottle here, and it's 0.5 for a baby, or 1ml "if neccessary". Sadly they don't have the consideration to give piggie doses though!

He only had his dental a few days ago, didn't he? Takes time to build up condition, and trying to rush *could* (but I won't say *will*) actually be harmful to his digestive rythm as well as not being ideal for teeth wear.

Did the vet see any sign of ulceration on his cheeks when doing his teeth? If there was tissue damage then he'll still be in discomfort, takes time for the body to heal. If it had become infected, then will take even longer, and at that point an antibiotic would be very useful. Again, better for a vet with a clue to have a good look and listen than to try and guess too much yourself. I've used oral Bonjela in the past in an attempt to at least soothe a sore spot in the mouth, no idea if it did any good, but it didn't appear to do any harm either. If he sometimes waggles his head (and possibly curls his lip), and maybe even paws at one side of his face when doing so, whilst eating, then he's most likely got a tender spot. If you never see this then he probably hasn't, but again, either knowing how to fully check his mouth yourself, or seeing a vet who can, is the best plan (mouth checking is one thing I leave to my previously thought good but now thought of as good dentally but questionable otherwise vet).

I'm wondering if Abidec is a better pick me up than Metatone, as it covers more of the Vit B group. OK, it doesn't have the energy content, but in theory the metabolism boost from the vits is more useful than the short energy burst from the sugars.
 
thanks stinkpig. tbh henry is seeming better and perking up. i have been giving metatone and seems to help. i have cut down the metacom to once a day and have cut down the crit care to twice day. vet said just to need to monitor it through the day. henry is eating and seems happy today. the weight is not increasing to what he like but goign see how he goes. will see vet on monday to let them know whts happened over weekend.

just wondering what other foods i can give to build weight up that he eats himself.

oh the bales of hay from our scats isnt pillow wad or whatever it was * said lol
 
hi thought i would update everyone on Henry's progress.

I have stopped the critical care due to it coming out the other the end and him being so down about it. His weight has not increasing just kept it the same as it was before the operation.

he is eating loads just not hay. grass hes eating and hard veg too. what else can i give him that will increase his weight that he can eat himself?

Since stopped the critical care his poos are normal again which is good and only giving metacom once a day(4 drops) now. He's lively andplaying with his brother but i only do that for about 2/3 hours a hour at mo as i want to make sure he is the one eating the food and not his brother.

I am monitoring his weight about 3 times a day morning afternoon and evening and as soon as there is a big drop i will go back on the crit care so please dont worry about that.
 
Personally I think for the time being let him do his thing - If he's happily munching away and not losing weight then he's managing his teeth and back end. Things take time to settle down, and I worry that trying to get too much weight on too quickly could bring its own raft of health problems (a bit like when I binge on the contents of my freezer!).

With his back end being a little questionable I'd still not give too many fruity/ sweet fresh foods, which are what will most likely help him to gain weight long term. Sounds like he just had a bit of a dodgy tummy, but it can take quite a few weeks for the digestive system to be fully on track after an illness so best not to push these things.

You could maybe try Readigrass (Spillers is the one I know, but there's another brand I see from time to time) or Just Grass (can't remember the maker, bought mine from a farm/ equine suppliers) as there's decent fibre content as well as some of the grasses used being reasonably energy rich. I'd stay away from Alfa alfa as the UK produce is very calcium rich, and although calcium is no bad thing, it can be in too large (or small of course) amounts.

She of the Eyebrow that had serious digestive issues this time last year following a dental issue is still around 200 to 300g under her weight before she was ill, and though it's a concern she's always first to the food bowl, first to the front of the cage, and appears on the top level (which involves a steep ramp) in the hope of finding fresh hidden up there. It's good to see her happy and demanding, and I try not to worry too much about getting weight on her as though I think she'd benefit, she seems content to be how she currently is.
 
lol they always have readigrass. not sure if it more for them or cos i LOVE the smell lol.... ok i will leave him be and just keep monitoring. thanks for the advise.
 
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