Need help, piggy prefers "snack pellets" over food

[akatsuki]

TLDR
My piggy prefers timothy-based hay-substitute pellets over food.
He only eats half of his food recently, probably because I am feeding him too much pellets.
I need help in finding food that he likes. Or advice if the pellets can be a substitute of food.

Background
We live in Hong Kong, and can select from Japanese products (Marukan, Sanko, Hipet, Momi) and overseas products (Oxbow, Kaytee, Mazuri, Sherwood, APD, Small Pet Select, Burgess Excel, Versele-Laga).

His current diet:

• Mix of 1st cut (Rabbit Hole Hay, cut short) and 2nd cut hay (Momi)
• Throughout the day: 10g food (Oxbow Garden Select, see Oxbow Animal Health ), 5g dried herb mix (lavender, dandelion leaf, rosehip etc.), 8g timothy-based hay-substitute pellets (Hipet), vitamin c tab (Sanko)
• 2 x 20g veggies (AM & PM)
• Nightime treat of around 5g timothy-based hay-substitute pellets
• Occasional treat of 1x Oxbow heart

Piggy's condition

• Male, 1.03 kg, will be 4 by mid Nov 2021
• Previously broke the right upper incisor when he was 1 year 2 months
• Broke the right lower incisor in July 2021; currently the left lower incisor is growing a bit inwards ( towards the right); took him to the vet twice in July and Sep, but both times vet (exotic) only prescribed Meloxicam and another anti-inflammatory drug (forgot the name).
• Previous bloating in July 2019
• Found a fat lump/tissue under his belly in Jan 2021 and vet advised observation
• Very low water intake, 20ml to 40ml per day, usually drinks when he eats. Vet has recommended wetting the veggies before feeding (which I did, each portion weighing around 8-10g more after wetting).
• Vet advises to feed him 1st cut timothy to be cut short since his teeth in the back are a bit long but his incisors cannot cut very well.

Issue
For over a year I have been feeding him these Japanese timothy-based hay-substitute pellets (Hipet Timothy no Kiwami, see ハイペット株式会社 ), previously in 5g portion daily. He loves them so much he would always finish those first.
These Japanese pellets are marketed as starch-free and gluten-free timothy-based coarse pellets as a hay substitution for those who do not like hay.
I see that their guaranteed analysis is quite similar to ordinary guinea pig food, plus there is no sugar added.
(Protein: 8.0～10.0％, Fat: 1.0～3.0％, Fibre: 23.0～27.0％, Ash: 3.0～6.0％, Moisture: Under 10.0％, Calcium: 0.2～0.4％)
The ingredients seem fairly minimalistic too (timothy hay, bran, carrot, salt, and Lactic acid bacteria EC-12).
So I suppose it is not a bad thing that the pig prefers these pellets over his Oxbow food.

For the past half year I have gradually increase the portion size to 8g daily for more fibre intake to prevent bloating and keep him fit (because of the fat lump).
And after he broke his tooth in July, I added an additional nighttime treat of 5g since the vet said it was fine.
Recently (these 2-3 months) he has more and more leftover food (around half left).
I think this is because of the increased pellets and his broken incisor. And also the fact that he likes the pellets more.

We never managed to find a suitable food that he likes and also is timothy-based.
He has tried various brands of food before (Versele-Laga, Kaytee, Momi, Small Pet Select, Oxbow), sometimes without much regard to the ingredients. I only recently study through the ingredients, and some of his previous favourites were alfafa-based.
I started finding a new one again recently because the current one is nearly finished. The only most suitable one I found is Oxbow Essentials, and I think of switching. It is similar to the Small Pet Select one so I don't think my piggy will like it.
But I do not dare replacing his food entirely with the pellets because the food has some nutrients formulated for his health.
So I am stuck between cutting his pellets in hope of him eating more food, and substitute his food entirely with the pellets (and adding supplements which food should provide).

I would love to have advice on choosing his food while not compromising his well-being. Thanks!

 

[LMPigs]

Welcome akatsuki!

When you say that your piggie prefers his subsitute pellets over "food", what food do you mean by food. You gave us a good and specific description of what foods you are giving him, but I was not sure which ones he is not eating? Please could you clarify this so we can respond appropraitely?

In the meantime, you would probably find it helpful to read this thread, if you have not already done so, because it has good information about guinea pig's dietary needs. You will see that the most important is hay, and the least important is pellets. Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

 

[akatsuki]

Welcome akatsuki!

When you say that your piggie prefers his subsitute pellets over "food", what food do you mean by food. You gave us a good and specific description of what foods you are giving him, but I was not sure which ones he is not eating? Please could you clarify this so we can respond appropraitely?

In the meantime, you would probably find it helpful to read this thread, if you have not already done so, because it has good information about guinea pig's dietary needs. You will see that the most important is hay, and the least important is pellets. Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Sorry for the confusion, by food I mean the 10 grams of Oxbow Garden Select guinea pig food.

I have briefly gone through that thread and am aware that the recommended portion of pellets is 1 tablespoon. I am just not sure what nutrients the pig will be missing if he is not given pellets, and substituted by the "snack pellets" plus vitamin c tab. Will he need additional supplements?

 

[LMPigs]

Thanks, that's helpful.

What is the reason you are giving him these "hay subsititute" pellets? Is this because of a difficulty eating hay due to the incisor issues you have mentioned? If he is eating hay, then you could just stop giving the hay substitute pellets and then might encourage him to eat more of the normal pellets.

With that said, if he is eating his vegetables and a good amount of hay, I wouldn't be too concerned if he doesn't eat the normal pellets. Between the various dried forage/herb mix you mention giving him and if you give a good variety of vegetables, he should get the various small amounts of minerals and vitamins that are not included in hay. There are some members on the forum that do not include pellets in the diet at all (due to specific health issues with their pigs) without ill effects.

 

[akatsuki]

Thanks, that's helpful.

What is the reason you are giving him these "hay subsititute" pellets? Is this because of a difficulty eating hay due to the incisor issues you have mentioned? If he is eating hay, then you could just stop giving the hay substitute pellets and then might encourage him to eat more of the normal pellets.

With that said, if he is eating his vegetables and a good amount of hay, I wouldn't be too concerned if he doesn't eat the normal pellets. Between the various dried forage/herb mix you mention giving him and if you give a good variety of vegetables, he should get the various small amounts of minerals and vitamins that are not included in hay. There are some members on the forum that do not include pellets in the diet at all (due to specific health issues with their pigs) without ill effects.

The reason for giving him the pellets may sound a bit ridiculous. It is a hyped product among out local gp & chinchilla community for a better bowel and man owners said their pets have the "perfect" poops after. My pig has bloating previously so preventing bloating is one of my major concern of his health. And he does poop nicely after increasing the portion size to 8g. He always asks for treats, and the fact that he loves it. And I consider this is a healthy treat over the other commercial treats with sugar. So that makes it almost impossible to complete cut the pellets. May be I can try cutting the whole-day portion and giving him the nighttime treat portion only.

I should also mention that he does not have a variety of veggies. He mainly has lettuce and baby corn, and occasionally cucumber. This is because I don't cook at all. So I am not so sure if his diet will be complete without the proper pellets.

 

[LMPigs]

haha, very typical of guinea pig owners to be always comparing poops. In reality, based on the ingredients of the pellets I don't see why the "output" should be different with pellets vs hay, but if he is used to them I can see it may be difficult to remove them (especially if he is a solo pig, and set in his ways, which sounds like the case?).

Others may come with different thoughts but based on what you've said this is what I would do:

• cut back on the hay substitute pellets to the extent possible
• keep offering unlimited hay, dried herb mix and small amount of regular pellets daily
• reduce baby corn (quite sweet so shouldn't be fed too regularly) and replace with capsicum/pepper (picture below as this is called different things in different English speaking countries) in the veg rotation

 

[akatsuki]

haha, very typical of guinea pig owners to be always comparing poops. In reality, based on the ingredients of the pellets I don't see why the "output" should be different with pellets vs hay, but if he is used to them I can see it may be difficult to remove them (especially if he is a solo pig, and set in his ways, which sounds like the case?).

Others may come with different thoughts but based on what you've said this is what I would do:

• cut back on the hay substitute pellets to the extent possible
• keep offering unlimited hay, dried herb mix and small amount of regular pellets daily
• reduce baby corn (quite sweet so shouldn't be fed too regularly) and replace with capsicum/pepper (picture below as this is called different things in different English speaking countries) in the veg rotation

View attachment 187633

I have a sow (2.5 years) who at the same time likes and hates his presence, she always steals food from him. One time she even bit his lips. So now they are living in 2 separate but side-by-side C&C, they are visible to each other but not in touch lol.

Your points 1 & 2 are very feasible, but about point 3.
Around 2 years ago, bell pepper was fed along with lettuce and they were crazy about it. But after around 1 year, they suddenly decided that they don't like it anymore and would not touch it. That was when the 2 pigs still live together. I have no idea if their opinion changed back now that they live apart without the "peer influence".
Portion of baby corn was 6g per day, would that be too much? They like it a lot. They tend to like crisp veggies.

 

[Black piggies]

Welcome! How has his weight been? Is his weight stable? Weighing weekly is a good way to tell if there are problems.

 

[akatsuki]

Welcome! How has his weight been? Is his weight stable? Weighing weekly is a good way to tell if there are problems.

During his last visit to the vet in late Sep, his weigh was 1.03 kg. 2nd to last (July) was 1.1 kg, and way back in Jan was 1.3 kg. So his vet told me to watch his weight closely until Nov because of the steady weight loss to see if there is any underlying issue. But she said his weight loss from July to Sep is probably because of his broken tooth. Currently I weigh him every week and it is between 1.03 - 1.04 kg after his last vet visit.

I should also mention that his previous vet has left the practice and his current vet is another vet of the same clinic.

 

[Black piggies]

During his last visit to the vet in late Sep, his weigh was 1.03 kg. 2nd to last (July) was 1.1 kg, and way back in Jan was 1.3 kg. So his vet told me to watch his weight closely until Nov because of the steady weight loss to see if there is any underlying issue. But she said his weight loss from July to Sep is probably because of his broken tooth. Currently I weigh him every week and it is between 1.03 - 1.04 kg after his last vet visit.

I should also mention that his previous vet has left the practice and his current vet is another vet of the same clinic.

That's great if his weight is stable now after the tooth problem.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I have a sow (2.5 years) who at the same time likes and hates his presence, she always steals food from him. One time she even bit his lips. So now they are living in 2 separate but side-by-side C&C, they are visible to each other but not in touch lol.

Your points 1 & 2 are very feasible, but about point 3.
Around 2 years ago, bell pepper was fed along with lettuce and they were crazy about it. But after around 1 year, they suddenly decided that they don't like it anymore and would not touch it. That was when the 2 pigs still live together. I have no idea if their opinion changed back now that they live apart without the "peer influence".
Portion of baby corn was 6g per day, would that be too much? They like it a lot. They tend to like crisp veggies.

Baby corn is not a suitable daily food and should only be considered as an occasional treat
It’s entirely normal for them to go off certain foods but still actually like them. They can get fed up of eating The same things every day