New guinea pig introduction, possibly going wrong?

[HRC.00]

So back in February I adopted a skinny pig. Her name is Roo. She was so small, that I wanted to wait until she was a bit bigger before introducing a friend to her. She's now close to 2 pounds and is about 10 inches long, so it seemed to me, it would be a good time to add a friend. So yesterday I went to a guinea pig rescue to adopt a second one. I brought Roo with me, because they have a gp bonding process to make sure your old guinea pig will get along gets along with the new candidate. The bonding went well, they seemed unenthused to meet eachother, but there was zero signs of aggression
So yesterday, I brought home a second female, Winnie. She is pretty big, about a foot long, and I would estimate 2ish pounds. She is furry, unlike Roo. So far, Winnie has just hid and hid, she only seems to come out when she wants to chase Roo around, she chases Roo one or two laps, until Roo runs upstairs, and Winnie doesnt follow. There's three hay feeders upstairs...so I don't see any there being any quarrel over food. The cage is 8 square feet, so plenty of space. There's two huts as well. From what I I have witnessed (based on what I've read on the net), it doesnt really seem to be agression, so much as establishing dominance? But here's the problem, I keep noticing more and more scratch marks on Roo's back end. I think they're from the chasing? But they only seem to show up when I'm not in the room, so I dont know if theres something more going on. But even if establishing dominance is the extent of the problem, Roo is getting scratched pretty bad, since she's hairless. I dont know how to let them go through this bonding process without Roo getting injured further. Most the marks arent bad, but one is like an inch long and was clearly bleeding before. Roo also seems scared of Winnie...she runs upstairs at the sight of her. So I just need help, is this going ok, as it should go? Or is this severe agression? If this is going well, and I should wait it out, how can I protect Roo in the meantime? Lastly, what can I use to safely disinfect Roo's cuts in the meantime? And once they heal more, can I apply vitamin E to prevent scarring? Thanks! Any info helps

 

[Siikibam]

I think the issue is that injuries in skinnies can appear worse due to the lack of hair. My first question, did you just put Winnie straight into Roo’s cage?

If so, you really need to clean it thoroughly and remove all scents before putting the piggies in. It may be the case that Winnie is trying to mark her territory but I finding Roo’s scent everywhere.

I would try again on neutral ground with just hay and no hides.Make sure you have plenty of time and watch their interaction.

I’ll tag @Wiebke and @PigglePuggle who has a skinny pig

 

[HRC.00]

I think the issue is that injuries in skinnies can appear worse due to the lack of hair. My first question, did you just put Winnie straight into Roo’s cage?

If so, you really need to clean it thoroughly and remove all scents before putting the piggies in. It may be the case that Winnie is trying to mark her territory but I finding Roo’s scent everywhere.

I would try again on neutral ground with just hay and no hides.Make sure you have plenty of time and watch their interaction.

I’ll tag @Wiebke and @PigglePuggle who has a skinny pig

Thank you! I did clean Roo's cage VERY thoroughly and then put them both it. Can you try to answer some of my questions more specifically? And to add to my initial question, are they safe together NOW? Thanks!

 

[Siikibam]

Severe aggression would involve a lot more than just scratching - a full on fight with teeth chattering and facing off etc.theyrd likely from them trying to set out the hierarchy. Bear in mind that this can go on for Two weeks.

To clean Roo you could use a saline solution. Either buy from the pharmacy or make your own (250ml boiled water and 2 teaspoons of salt).

I’m not sure about vitamin e, I’ll leave that to those tagged above to answer.

If you are worried you could separate them for the night with a grid. But there’s nothing you can do to ‘protect me Roo I’m afraid. The squeaks of submission may be what’s making you think she’s scared of Winnie. Also only have hides with two exits. Then she can’t be trapped.

hopefully that answers some of your questions. It’s almost 1am here so more answers will be in later today.

 

[PeachesMyPrincess]

My guinea pig, peaches, in pic, is a bully to my sister piggy Roscoe, they are both females, but fight, we put them separate cages and put a timer on for 15 minutes then put them back in the same cage and they are fine.

 

[HRC.00]

Severe aggression would involve a lot more than just scratching - a full on fight with teeth chattering and facing off etc.theyrd likely from them trying to set out the hierarchy. Bear in mind that this can go on for Two weeks.

To clean Roo you could use a saline solution. Either buy from the pharmacy or make your own (250ml boiled water and 2 teaspoons of salt).

I’m not sure about vitamin e, I’ll leave that to those tagged above to answer.

If you are worried you could separate them for the night with a grid. But there’s nothing you can do to ‘protect me Roo I’m afraid. The squeaks of submission may be what’s making you think she’s scared of Winnie. Also only have hides with two exits. Then she can’t be trapped.

hopefully that answers some of your questions. It’s almost 1am here so more answers will be in later today.

Thanks, this is helpful...bit of an update, I witnessed a full "round" of chasing. What happened is they kept getting in a stand off, where Roo would freeze, and Winnie would wait until Roo moved, and then dart after her, until Roo gets ahead enough to freeze again, this repeated like 3-4 times until Roo was able to "escape" upstairs. I'm so stressed...is this normal?
Okay

 

[PeachesMyPrincess]

I always take a wet paper towel to make sure the cuts a clean, because of the dust

 

[Swissgreys]

A good place to start is here:
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

There are lots of pictures ot help you work out if what you are seeing is normal behavior.
I would start by making sure the cage only has hides with 2 entrances (cardboard boxes are good for this) so no one can get trapped.
A photo of their cage would also help so we can offer more specific advice.
Two level cages can cause problems initially and a more open set up in a bonding pen might help them to settle.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you! I did clean Roo's cage VERY thoroughly and then put them both it. Can you try to answer some of my questions more specifically? And to add to my initial question, are they safe together NOW? Thanks!

Hi

Unfortunately putting any guinea pigs into another guinea pig's territory (however well cleaned) means that they are perceived as intruders and won't generally not be accepted. Any intros need to happen outside of the cage on ground that is not part of anypig's normal territory.
Guinea pigs are wired to live as small bonded groups in a colony. Every small group has their own little territory but they move all together as a herd twice daily to and from their feeding grounds at dawn and at dusk.

Back leg swipes and nips from the more dominant guinea pig are normal sow behaviour. they usually do not cause a problem because the fur coat serves as an insulation for dominance behaviour; this is not the case in skinnies and can cause lots of scratches during the intro and the post-bonding 2 weeks dominance phase in which a group hierarchy and the actual relationship is worked out and cemented.
Please take the time to carefully read these guides here:
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/caring-for-skinny-guinea-pigs.38166/

 

[HRC.00]

Hi

Unfortunately putting any guinea pigs into another guinea pig's territory (however well cleaned) means that they are perceived as intruders and won't generally not be accepted. Any intros need to happen outside of the cage on ground that is not part of anypig's normal territory.
Guinea pigs are wired to live as small bonded groups in a colony. Every small group has their own little territory but they move all together as a herd twice daily to and from their feeding grounds at dawn and at dusk.

Back leg swipes and nips from the more dominant guinea pig are normal sow behaviour. they usually do not cause a problem because the fur coat serves as an insulation for dominance behaviour; this is not the case in skinnies and can cause lots of scratches during the intro and the post-bonding 2 weeks dominance phase in which a group hierarchy and the actual relationship is worked out and cemented.
Please take the time to carefully read these guides here:
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/caring-for-skinny-guinea-pigs.38166/

Okay, thank you for the info. You said that putting them in the same cage means the one won't be accepted... I'm assuming you dont mean this is a lost cause? But that I need to start fresh with them in mutual territory?

 

[Wiebke]

Give them a few days to settle down and then see whether a fresh start will work.

But please accept that once piggies have made up their mind that they do not like another piggy, they are not going to change their mind for the next few years or so. Guinea pigs are every bit as complex personalities as humans, only that their society works differently to ours.

Here is our detailed step-by-step bonding guide:
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Bonds In Trouble

 

[HRC.00]

Give them a few days to settle down and then see whether a fresh start will work.

But please accept that once piggies have made up their mind that they do not like another piggy, they are not going to change their mind for the next few years or so. Guinea pigs are every bit as complex personalities as humans, only that their society works differently to ours.

Here is our detailed step-by-step bonding guide:
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Bonds In Trouble

Will do, thank you! Also, just to clarify, what is causing the chasing? Dislike of eachother? Establishing dominance?b

 

[Wiebke]

Will do, thank you! Also, just to clarify, what is causing the chasing? Dislike of eachother? Establishing dominance?b

Chasing can range from simply throwing one's weight around during the dominance phase when the leadership is reinforced to really not wanting a piggy on their patch. Like so many behaviours it has to be seen in the context and judged by their intensity, persistence and forcefulness, taking in the personality of the other party as well. Please always make sure that you do not have any hideys with just one exit.

 

[HRC.00]

Chasing can range from simply throwing one's weight around during the dominance phase when the leadership is reinforced to really not wanting a piggy on their patch. Like so many behaviours it has to be seen in the context and judged by their intensity, persistence and forcefulness, taking in the personality of the other party as well. Please always make sure that you do not have any hideys with just one exit.

I gave them space for a few days and tried reintroducing them. Winnie is definitely asserting dominance, and Roo is definitely being submissive (squeaking loudly, and lowering her head). There's been no agression, accept possibly the chasing? Winnie is still chasing lots and she's nipped up Roo's rear pretty bad. But I dont think she is being aggressive... she seems to be showing signs she accepts Roo? Nibbling her ear, and grooming next to her...but I can't tell if Roo likes Winnie, and is happy to submit, or if she is scared and feeling bullied? She's just stood petrified in the corner for every second she's not being chased, and hasn't dared approach winnie. is that a submissive sign? Or a sign that she's being bullied? Thanks!

 

[Wiebke]

I gave them space for a few days and tried reintroducing them. Winnie is definitely asserting dominance, and Roo is definitely being submissive (squeaking loudly, and lowering her head). There's been no agression, accept possibly the chasing? Winnie is still chasing lots and she's nipped up Roo's rear pretty bad. But I dont think she is being aggressive... she seems to be showing signs she accepts Roo? Nibbling her ear, and grooming next to her...but I can't tell if Roo likes Winnie, and is happy to submit, or if she is scared and feeling bullied? She's just stood petrified in the corner for every second she's not being chased, and hasn't dared approach winnie. is that a submissive sign? Or a sign that she's being bullied? Thanks!

It sounds like acceptance has happened!
Nipping and chasing are part of the dominance phase in which the hierarchy structure and the shape of the relationship is being firmed up. Just make sure that there are no hideys with only one exit for at least the next 2-3 weeks and let them get on with it.
Roo will hopefully come out of herself when she realises that Winnie is not after her. Give her time.

 

[HRC.00]

It sounds like acceptance has happened!
Nipping and chasing are part of the dominance phase in which the hierarchy structure and the shape of the relationship is being firmed up. Just make sure that there are no hideys with only one exit for at least the next 2-3 weeks and let them get on with it.
Roo will hopefully come out of herself when she realises that Winnie is not after her. Give her time.

Yes, all the hideys have two entrances. How long do I need to leave them in mutual territory before putting them in a clean cage? And like I said Roo is nipped up pretty bad...how much is too much? None of the cuts are deep or anything, only a few have even bled, but she has like 40.

 

[Siikibam]

You have to remember that Roo is a skinny so any small injury will look worse than it likely is. Keep them clean and they should heal well.

You can always keep them in the bonding area overnight if you prefer. Just make sure everything is thoroughly cleaned including any fleece hides etc.

Is their cage big enough to meet the minimum requirements?

 

[HRC.00]

You have to remember that Roo is a skinny so any small injury will look worse than it likely is. Keep them clean and they should heal well.

You can always keep them in the bonding area overnight if you prefer. Just make sure everything is thoroughly cleaned including any fleece hides etc.

Is their cage big enough to meet the minimum requirements?

You have to remember that Roo is a skinny so any small injury will look worse than it likely is. Keep them clean and they should heal well.

You can always keep them in the bonding area overnight if you prefer. Just make sure everything is thoroughly cleaned including any fleece hides etc.

Is their cage big enough to meet the minimum requirements?

It does meet the requirements. It's quite big! Could you answer my question more specifically though? At what point can I put them in the same cage together?

 

[Piggies&buns]

It does meet the requirements. It's quite big! Could you answer my question more specifically though? At what point can I put them in the same cage together?

They can go in the same cage when you are sure they are ok together. It could be a few hours, or a whole day before they go in the cage.

 

[Siikibam]

How are they doing? We’d love some pigtures pretty please

 

[HRC.00]

They're doing wonderful! Thanks for checking in. The one concern I have, a couple of Roo's scratches have turned into bumps. They're quite small, and they look just like the kind of pimples humans get, I'm fairly certain there is surface puss? There's also just a tiny section of her skin that looks orangeish. What's going on? Is it ok? How can I treat this? Thanks!

 

[Piggies&buns]

They're doing wonderful! Thanks for checking in. The one concern I have, a couple of Roo's scratches have turned into bumps. They're quite small, and they look just like the kind of pimples humans get, I'm fairly certain there is surface puss? There's also just a tiny section of her skin that looks orangeish. What's going on? Is it ok? How can I treat this? Thanks!

It would be worth having a vet check over any scratches which don’t look like they are healing well. You don’t want an infection to take hold.

 

[Ritika]

They're doing wonderful! Thanks for checking in. The one concern I have, a couple of Roo's scratches have turned into bumps. They're quite small, and they look just like the kind of pimples humans get, I'm fairly certain there is surface puss? There's also just a tiny section of her skin that looks orangeish. What's going on? Is it ok? How can I treat this? Thanks!

They are so pretty