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Pain Relief For Piggys?

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Amysmom

Teenage Guinea Pig
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The emergency vet who saw Millie last night said that guinea pigs need huge amounts of pain relief-three times the amount of a dog! Is this true? I'm worried that my girls who we lost recently and have suffered with UTI's have always been in pain with it.
 
They have a faster metabolism so do need higher amounts of pain relief as the meds wear off quicker but the vet does usually take this into account. I would not worry that your girls were in pain, please don't torture yourself.
 
We were told to give 0.2mg once a day but I split it into 0.1mg a day. Seems hardly anything.
 
The emergency vet who saw Millie last night said that guinea pigs need huge amounts of pain relief-three times the amount of a dog! Is this true? I'm worried that my girls who we lost recently and have suffered with UTI's have always been in pain with it.
I would say this is not the case at all, l don't think sweeping statements like that are useful ,
Look for pain indicators (there might be a section in this foram on pain indicators , or you could see if there's anything
Useful on guinea linx
I had a Sow that had a massive absess surgacaly removed and it was easily cleaned with a swab
It was a great big hole in the side of her face and she let me clean it 3 to 4 times a day without flinching .
I have several stories like this were pain management was just not nessesary to the levels we would be lead to
Beleve,
Bere in mind all chemical pain relief has side efects, some of them can be quite bad, also consider
The detrimental efect it has on the pigs renal system
 
I would say this is not the case at all, l don't think sweeping statements like that are useful ,
Look for pain indicators (there might be a section in this foram on pain indicators , or you could see if there's anything
Useful on guinea linx
I had a Sow that had a massive absess surgacaly removed and it was easily cleaned with a swab
It was a great big hole in the side of her face and she let me clean it 3 to 4 times a day without flinching .
I have several stories like this were pain management was just not nessesary to the levels we would be lead to
Beleve,
Bere in mind all chemical pain relief has side efects, some of them can be quite bad, also consider
The detrimental efect it has on the pigs renal system

I think it can be difficult to judge the amount of pain they are in because they hide it.
 
I think it can be difficult to judge the amount of pain they are in because they hide it.
I think perhaps the statment they hide it is ment to discribe wild pigs ,
The domestic pig dosent hide it if you clip a nail to the quick !

From what l can gather the pain receptors in a humans brain are far more developed than a smaller animal
Example , the true film 127 days ! Didnt wach the film , but Aparantly in real life it took a man 127 days to cut his trapped
Wrist free !
A rabbit caught by the foot in a wire trap will chew it's own foot off in a matter of minutes
 
Regarding oral pain meds , a great deal are opiate based , , l know l was on Tramaol recently
And it realy made my feel spaced out , the feeling was frightening to say the least . But
I could identify what was going on ,
The animal just has to ride through the experance,
 
@gizzy oral pain relief is quite necessary in many cases, and for various reasons.

Firstly yes, they DO hide their pain. Of cause if you cut a pig's nails to the quick the guinea pig will flinch/squeal as is reacting to a sudden shock and pain that the pig was completely unprepared for. In the wild a prey animal in pain would be one more likely to be picked out as being easier to catch by a predator, so many animals will hide their pain. Their instincts are still strong to this day in this regard, but it doesn't mean the pain is not there.

As for receptors in the brain - I assume you have scientific evidence to back this up? Of course every single species is different, but actually so are human individuals. If you wish to quote one example of a human taking a long time to do the 'necessary deed' then bear in mind there are other examples of humans who have done so much quicker. For an animal the instinct to survive a harsh situation will call for a harsh and painful decision, and may do so quicker as they are not thinking the process through as much as a human will. An animal will not ponder the possibilities of a fatal bleed from their amputated foot, nor the hardship it will face from losing it. The animal will totally believe that if he doesn't amputate his own foot then he will die. Fear of death is strong enough for animals to get through the necessary task, humans have other fears added to this and will weigh up the pros and cons before taking such drastic action. Animals will be seen gasping in dreadful pain and yet carrying on with trying to escape as their fear of death is a stronger motivation than their pain. You will find many such cases with humans too, in such great pain but their motivation to try to survive is greater than their pain.

To claim that an animal doesn't feel pain enough to warrant pain relief is very misguided to be honest.

Now pain relief itself. Guinea pigs have been known to lose their appetites due to pain. Many of us have witnessed this, many vets know this. To let a pet continue through their pain also causes a greater amount of stress hormones to be released into the body, and these can also harm their health. This is known. Stress hormones increase inflammation, just one example. Continued inflammation can cause damage to surrounding tissue and will hinder the healing process, sometimes permanent damage can occur. A continued raise in heart rate and blood pressure is another result of being in a prolonged state of stress. None of these things are useful when trying to recover from damage or illness.
Then there's sleep. Sleep is a great healer, it's not just a saying, it is true. A lot of healing is done whilst sleeping, and pain of course has a lot of potential to keep one awake, whether that be an animal or a human. Lack of sleep causes added health issues and added physical stress, as well as mental stress.

Some pain killers actually do a secondary task - Metacam for example helps to relieve inflammation. I see what you say about opioids, but in cases of severe pain sometimes nothing else will touch it.
In the case of Metacam though, this is not an opioid, it is an NSAID (Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug). Other NSAIDS used in humans include aspirin, ibuprofen and naproxen. Whilst we all must weigh up the pros and cons of taking meds and must make that decision for those who cannot make it themselves, Metacam is generally very well tolerated in Guinea Pigs and the benefits of the pain relief and anti-inflammatory aspects, and the reductions of stress etc, are well known. Going further when weighing up the pros of cons for those who cannot decide, it's important to remember that vets have studied the mechanisms of how medications work. They will understand the benefits when prescribing these meds and will know more than the average pet owner. By all means question, and they will explain, but to go against the advice can be detrimental to your pet.

Sorry @gizzy but whilst it is an undisputed fact that many medications have either definite side effects or potential ones depending on dosage and the way each individual body reacts and the type of medication, the benefits are well and truly known, as are the detrimental health affects of leaving an animal, or a person, in a state of continued pain and distress. Some of what you have stated is incorrect, I'm sorry to say, and some seem to be assumptions based on a few documented experiences instead of the big picture overall. Going against providing pain relief based on not knowing the big picture and the full facts is quite frankly potentially damaging for pets. Anyone knowing the full facts will see that there's unlikely to be many, if any, situations where it's best not to provide pain relief, and assumptions that they do not feel enough pain to warrant relief is simply not true.
 
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I totally agree with you @Critter i truly believe that they DO hide their pain and lack of appetite is how I knew that Daisy was in pain, although now I am concerned that I have never been giving enough Metacam to relieve that pain. My experience with sick guinea pigs who have required antibiotics and pain meds though is that I have always lost them in the end which makes me feel that the more we put into our guinea pigs body's the more the balance of their systems can be disrupted.
 
I totally agree with you @Critter i truly believe that they DO hide their pain and lack of appetite is how I knew that Daisy was in pain, although now I am concerned that I have never been giving enough Metacam to relieve that pain. My experience with sick guinea pigs who have required antibiotics and pain meds though is that I have always lost them in the end which makes me feel that the more we put into our guinea pigs body's the more the balance of their systems can be disrupted.
:hug:
There's been debate even amongst vets and those who work in that industry about whether or not to split the dose. The ideal is to get enough meds in to cause the desired effects without over-loading their bodies. However it's also logical to split the dose to prolong the pain relief. It is also logical to give it in one go to ensure that the effect is not diluted at that time and to ensure some benefit to administering the Metacam (active ingredient Meloxicam). It's a pretty similar drug to Naproxen in many ways and quite similar to Ibuprofen. The anti-inflammatory affects can take a few days to kick in.
I remember mentioning this to my vet and asking her thoughts, and she's witnessed the debates also, and her preference is all in one go. I have taken her advice but I can't say for sure personally which is best. Others here have been advised to split the dose. Unfortunately it's hard to give an absolute definitive answer that everyone will agree on when it comes to dose-splitting or not with Metacam.

Perhaps I would go with the full dose and see how it goes before splitting it, if that's what you were advised to do, or at least phone the vet and ask to discuss this? There's quite strong views on either side but your vet may be able to shed light onto how she would like you to administer the meds and the reasoning behind it ...
 
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:hug:
There's been debate even amongst vets and those who work in that industry about whether or not to split the dose. The ideal is to get enough meds in to cause the desired effects without over-loading their bodies. However it's also logical to split the dose to prolong the pain relief. It is also logical to give it in one go to endure that the effect is not diluted at that time and to ensure some benefit to administering the Metacam (active ingredient Meloxicam). It's a pretty similar drug to Naproxen in many ways and quite similar to Ibuprofen. The anti-inflammatory affects can take a few days to kick in.
I remember mentioning this to my vet and asking her thoughts, and she's witnessed the debates also, and her preference is all in one go. I have taken her advice but I can't say for sure personally which is best. Others here have been advised to split the dose. Unfortunately it's hard to give an absolute definitive answer that everyone will agree on when it comes to dose-splitting or not with Metacam.

Perhaps I would go with the full dose and see how it goes before splitting it, if that's what you were advised to do, or at least phone the vet and ask to discuss this? There's quite strong views on either side but your vet may be able to shed light onto how she would like you to administer the meds and the reasoning behind it ...

She has always told us to administer it in one go but before Millie passed she would cry whenever she urinated even after her one dose of Metacam, so during her last week I did split it and I felt that she didn't squeal as much. Bladder issues are what's putting me off having anymore piggys after my two six year olds are no longer here.
 
@Amysmom
So sorry about the loss of your piggie. Going back to the start of this thread, the dose your vet presribed sounds very low but the vet should be basing this on concentrations, weight of piggie etc. I think we have to be careful in talking about doses on an open forum but I can say my vet gives much more, aiming to reduce down once piggie can cope. I have a post op piggie at the moment with a very sore bladder and he would not be eating anything without both Metacam and Tramadol on board. There are risks which a good vet will explain but eating is just so critical in piggies.
Totally understand your frustration about bladder piggies as others of us do on here but you are grieving right now so try not to make any rules until it is less raw. Hugs.

@pig in the city has a good way of explaining about the split dose issue so I will tag her in.
 
Please don't beat yourself up @Amysmom its not your fault, you trusted what the vet said.
Many vets are anxious about prescribing for piggies and the tendency is to give the lower end of the dose range (the dose you were recommended originally is the lower end of the dosage range).
My vet tends to prescribe dog metacam at a dose of 0.4ml/ kg once or twice a day. She usually starts at the higher dose and we reduce it down as the piggy improves. The effect of adequate pain relief can be dramatic, l had a piggy with an injured toe , not anything major you might think, but he stopped eating as a result and was very subdued. An adequate dose of pain relief had him eating and bouncing around within a few hours. So yes animals do feel pain!
As regards the split dosage, it all depends on the half life of the drug in the body. If a drug has a long half life and is in the body a long time, it can be given once a day, if a drug has a short half life it needs to be given more frequently. Many factors determine a drugs half life, one of which is the speed of metabolism. We know piggies have a high metabolism so the drug is broken down more quickly, this means they need a relatively higher dose compared to larger animals, and they may benefit from having the dose split in two, although l don't tend to do this for metacam, l give the full dose either once or twice a day. I hope that helps
 
I would say this is not the case at all, l don't think sweeping statements like that are useful ,
Look for pain indicators (there might be a section in this foram on pain indicators , or you could see if there's anything
Useful on guinea linx
I had a Sow that had a massive absess surgacaly removed and it was easily cleaned with a swab
It was a great big hole in the side of her face and she let me clean it 3 to 4 times a day without flinching .
I have several stories like this were pain management was just not nessesary to the levels we would be lead to
Beleve,
Bere in mind all chemical pain relief has side efects, some of them can be quite bad, also consider
The detrimental efect it has on the pigs renal system
There is no evidence that metacam has a detrimental effect of the kidneys in guinea pigs or rabbits (unlike dogs and cats). I have a piggy who had been on high dose metacam for two years and he remains perfectly healthy.
 
I agree with @pig in the city.ive a piggy that has stopped eating.i arranged an emergency appointment with the vet at the weekend.she has been given metacam twice aday and she is now eating unaided in 24 hours.some routine tests are being done to find the cause of the pain as nothing seems out of sorts.i will check her urine/urineanalysis.Just that piggies do feel pain but can hide there feelings well.@Amysmom please do not blame yourself you were just following the experts/vets advise.:)
 
I agree with @pig in the city.ive a piggy that has stopped eating.i arranged an emergency appointment with the vet at the weekend.she has been given metacam twice aday and she is now eating unaided in 24 hours.some routine tests are being done to find the cause of the pain as nothing seems out of sorts.i will check her urine/urineanalysis.Just that piggies do feel pain but can hide there feelings well.@Amysmom please do not blame yourself you were just following the experts/vets advise.:)
Who's poorly Eileen? How's Carlton doing?
 
my 3 year old sophie,she is a himi.i am baffled as to the cause.she is peeing good clear amounts of urine.xrays ruled out gas bloat.teeth are fine.no infection that is noticable.the exotic vet is finding it difficult to see where the pain is.i did ask if it could be arthiritisis.Carlton is running around eating loads he now weights 1.4.5kgs !He is greeting me at the bars,rumblestrutting to his ladies.i cannot see any evidence of slowing down.Simon thought he was overweight...but I'm not rashioning his food he loves it.he is having timothy hay.i will take some pics when i get chance.i think i may get a second opinion for Sophie and change vets .
 
my 3 year old sophie,she is a himi.i am baffled as to the cause.she is peeing good clear amounts of urine.xrays ruled out gas bloat.teeth are fine.no infection that is noticable.the exotic vet is finding it difficult to see where the pain is.i did ask if it could be arthiritisis.Carlton is running around eating loads he now weights 1.4.5kgs !He is greeting me at the bars,rumblestrutting to his ladies.i cannot see any evidence of slowing down.Simon thought he was overweight...but I'm not rashioning his food he loves it.he is having timothy hay.i will take some pics when i get chance.i think i may get a second opinion for Sophie and change vets .
Have you taken her to Simon?
 
I would definitely recommend Simon @eileen and also Kim, she gave my Anselmo another 2 happy years. There is literally noone in Leicester/Leicestershire anywhere near as good as them, and the only exotics vet we have is very negative, he wrote Anselmo off after two stone surgeries.

The travelling isn't too bad, especially if you cut through from J18 instead of attempting the M1 all the way.

I work near Junction 20, so I'm happy to help out by collecting a pig when I finish work if it helps, as I know it's hard doing the journey twice if you have to leave them.
 
Thanks @Jaycey ,i have always gone down the M1 but will come off at junction 18 ,it is only 3/4 of an hour.i agree with all that you stated.unfortunatley my piggies are like my children and i like to do the best for them ,even though i have 20 piggies.:)
 
No worries @eileen, it's about 30mins from work so I don't mind helping anyone out with collections. It's quicker straight down the M1 but 9 times out of 10 there has been something going on so I found the other way as backup.
 
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