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Pearl Barley water & urine test question

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Salt n Peppers mum

Salt n Peppers mum

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Pepper we think has Cystitis. He has been Septrin since last Friday, x-ray shows no bladder stones. Up until Monday he still kept making them little squeaks when Piggies are annoyed when he poo-ed. I'm sure its the pooing thats unsettling him, not the wee-ing? Anyay for two days he seemed to settle down, or I never heard him do his squeaky pooing sound anyway. Then tonight he started squeaking abit again when he poos.
I keep making him some pearl barley water up. I wanted to know if you thought this was OK. After boiling for at least an hour the water is drained. Then I liquidise some cucumber and carrot with it. And pour the liquid into a bowl. Pepper keeps going and lapping it up. I know people syringe it to their piggies mouths, but this I thought should be OK if he's taking it himself with the other veggies added for taste?
The other question was Urine sample. I'm going to try and collect some and take into the vets on Friday. Because Peppers been on the antibiotics, will it show infection in the sample? I thought that it would have had to been a sample before he was actually taking the antibotics?
Many thanks in antisipation
Paula
 
The preparation of a pearl barley drink is very time consuming. Far better to give him pure cranberry juice and/or one of the various preparations available from any chemist/supermarket.
It depends whether the infection was cleared by the Septrin or if the infection was resistant to it, as to whether the urine test shows positive or negative.
 
Where do you get pure cranberry juice, AP? The ones I have seen all have sugar in.
 
Thanks AP

I have also got Ocean Spray cranberry juice light. but it does contain sweeteners.
He doesnt take the cranberry as much on his own but do have some in a bowl for him, so do need to syringe it also.
 
Has he been given any anti-inflammatories? A few days of Rimadyl or Metacam may help, if Septrin on its own isn't showing much improvement.

Other than that, plenty of fluids i.e. water and/or cranberry juice should help.

Hope he is feeling much better soon!
 
Holland and Barrett sell Natural cranberry concentrate with no additives.

Pearl barley water is time consuming - but I have found it very effective in my pigs with sterile cystitis and, unless I know the cause was definitely microbiological, would personally prefer to give this rather than a commercial cys**** preparation which are contraindicated for kidney problems.

I usually administer 2ml diluted with cranberry extract three or four times a day as personally I'm not sure whether a larger quantity ad libitum each day would affect/unbalance their digestive system, (the carbohydrates in the pb water might cause gas just as baby foods can do in some other piggies especially if they are on antibioitics - my thoughts only?). If Pepper is lapping it up it would suggest he wants more fluids and maybe a bowl of just cranberry juice and veggies would suffice.

If the urine is being collected for microbial culture - then as Pepper has been on antibiotics (might reduce the number of infectious organisms ) and you are collecting the urine in a container (contamination and possible overgrowth of culture by contaminants), the chances of being able to culture/identify the bacterium that might be responsible are lower and the results may be inconclusive....you may want to talk to the vet to weigh up the cost of the test vs the prospect of a result.

An anti- inflammatory like Metacam etc is also worth thinking about to reduce the inflammation in the bladder - mine get metacam twice daily when they are having an episode to reduce both pain and inflammation and encourage them to eat.

Has Pepper had a full inspection/cleaning of his bits to check for impaction and get rid of the buildup often found around the penile shaft?

Hope he's back to his normal self soon.

xx
 
Thanks for the very useful advise Pebbles.

Pepper isn't on any anti-inflammatory, he was just given an injection of Rimadyl. Pepper is eating lots and put on weight (not that he needs to). He has always and still does drink a lot of fluid. If it was my other pig 'Salt' I would be worried about fluid intake as I have never seen him drink yet.

Pepper had a really good check over. He poos fine- lots.

Now its just the little annoyed crys while passing stools and slight arch of back. Although that was last night. Watching him now for signs of discomfort. No blood, no loss of appetite.

One thing I have noted was his chewing or gnawing has become less. He gnawed on the correx, he stretched up to gnaw the wooden table. Gnawed his wooden hiddy boxes. Last summer while outside I could hear him gnawing inside on his hay box. All that seems to have settled down now. He still chomps on his willow. I have now thought about this gnawing, which he has done for a long time. But I think had gotten worse, and I thought was part of his character may now have been down to him using it as pain relief? I don't know?
 
Another Question ----

Just bought the Natural cranberry concentrate from Holland & Barrett.

I was watching him late last night having giving him his Septrin and a few veggies he went off to settle on top of his bed box. And he was figgeting alot as though he was uncomfortable. Then he looked like he had hiccups. His head was still, and he was laid down but his stomach kept jumping ?

I think he's in some discomfort but not sure why.

Another visit to vets later for us.

If he had cystitis wouldnt he have a wet area underneath where is dribbles wee ?
 
Not always.
Give him a Buscopan, that is usually very effective. You can often see an improvement in their "comfort level" within 20-30 minutes.
 
alcesterpigs said:
Not always.
Give him a Buscopan, that is usually very effective. You can often see an improvement in their "comfort level" within 20-30 minutes.
Click to expand...

Hi there!
Is this for pain when pooing/weeing?

- I saw your thread and wanted to say that my little Pootle has something v similar! She makes a squeaking noise when going to the toilet but it's not all the time as she doesn't seem to do it as much when we are cuddling her. She sounds in pain though and I even had an ultrasound done some time ago to see if it was stones or inflamed but it all looked fine.
They gave me Baytril (as always!) but it's never worked and I feel so sorry for her. She eats fine and shows no other signs of discomfort except when she pees/poos.

Will be very interested to hear what works for you so I can also try it. Thanks for the info on where to get the pure cranberry juice from as well! I have been looking for ages!
 
The pure cranberry from H&B doesnt contain anything added. It comes in a smallish bottle that needs to be kept in the fridge once opened. You have to diluted it. It cost over £10.
Got the Buscopan AP, but thought I'd wait till after the vet visit ? I had to go through my symptoms with the chemist of my bowel movememts before she let me have it. ")
He seems happy enough now, eating and pottering but I know somethings not right. He does seem quiter than normal.

Tani - I have always thought the pain was from pooing. I cant be 100% but when I hear him have his annoyed squeak, I watch and he poos. Then I feel the area to see if he did a wee too as my piggies are on fleece and sometimes he has sometimes not. :{ I have done a few threads now relating to Peppers trouble as it started with seeing Jelly like blood on his bedding.

If my pigs lived outside there would be know way I would have picked this up. As he doesnt squeak everytime and its not loud. Its the annoyed sound they do when another piggie is in his face. I stopped up while 1:30am crouched on the floor watching him on his bedbox on his lower deck to try to make sense of it.
 
Yes, I totally agree that it is hard to pinpoint. Especially when it's not always constant. I always seem to hear her but she goes in the corner where it's already been weed in so I have no clue which bit hurts her. Will get hold of some cranberry juice this weekend and give it a try. I can't imagine how unconfortable she must be having had it for so long if it is cystitus!
Lol! at the chemist thing, what we go through eh! he he
 
I was told, and I believe, that piggies experience painful defecation when they have cystitis because the walls of the urethra become inflamed, which means the pressure of waste (poops) travelling along near the end of the gut puts pressure on the painful urethra, leading to the pain when pooping.

Bad way of describing it I know, but you kinda get the idea.

Interstitial cystitis (IC) is another cause, it doesn't clear with the use of antibiotics. There was a fairly recent thread about IC, sadly the outcome was not good as a bladder stone was found to be this cause of his most recent bout of pain:
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=41809&highlight=interstitial+cystitis

I have a sow who exhibited symptoms of IC, painkillers and antibiotics made no difference. She finally stopped experiencing pain when peeing and pooping when I modified the diet, correcting the Calcium-Phosphorus ratio:
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37030
 
Hiccoughs in the stomach sounds like a definite indication of a partial blockage so needs to be checked out pronto- depite the fact they are pooing you need to check for impaction and blockage slightly further up - get a [*]knoweldgeable vet[/*] to palpate properly......

I had the self same "hiccoughing" symptom with Beechie before we realised what was going on and the (lovely Bunny boy) vet found he was impacted half way up his colon (no physical blockage seen on X ray) so he had an enema - took a further 36 hours of dire stress from me (and syringe feeding every 3 hours plus motility drugs) before he finally shot a load of tiny air gun pellets in front of another of the practice vets on his follow up (who had the cheek to say ...and exactly why madam why do you think this guinea pigs has stasis ?)...I have never cried over piggie poo before - but I couldn;t stop myself that time...the sheer and utter relief :red

Suggest you get him checked out further up is digestive ract.....Pm me if you want to chat further and I will send you my phone number
x
 
Salt n Peppers mum said:
The pure cranberry from H&B doesnt contain anything added. It comes in a smallish bottle that needs to be kept in the fridge once opened. You have to diluted it. It cost over £10.
Got the Buscopan AP, but thought I'd wait till after the vet visit ? I had to go through my symptoms with the chemist of my bowel movememts before she let me have it. ")
He seems happy enough now, eating and pottering but I know somethings not right. He does seem quiter than normal.

Tani - I have always thought the pain was from pooing. I cant be 100% but when I hear him have his annoyed squeak, I watch and he poos. Then I feel the area to see if he did a wee too as my piggies are on fleece and sometimes he has sometimes not. :{ I have done a few threads now relating to Peppers trouble as it started with seeing Jelly like blood on his bedding.

If my pigs lived outside there would be know way I would have picked this up. As he doesnt squeak everytime and its not loud. Its the annoyed sound they do when another piggie is in his face. I stopped up while 1:30am crouched on the floor watching him on his bedbox on his lower deck to try to make sense of it.
Click to expand...

Hi again!

I bought some of the cranberry juice today as you recommended, but am unsure as to how much to give them? i.e. how many mm mixed with how much water?
 
Cranberry juice can be given neat, I think, no need to dilute, and as much as the guinea will take.
 
Ah, ok. Well I had diluted it made up as per adult instructions, and put it in their water bottle just to see who drinks it. Typically, the one who doesn't need it, couldn't get enough, and the ones who do, refused to go near it! lol.
I will syringe feed those ones it neat then if it's fine like that.
Do you think watering it down and putting some in their regular bottle, or their second water bottle will be ok on a regular basis? i.e to keep them from any future problems, or should I only use it when they need it?
 
Give it when there is a need for it and then only by syringe feeding.
 
Tani. The concentrated one from H&B does need watering down as per instuctions on bottle. Obviously smaller doses.
Pebbles recommends 2ml - 3to4 times a daily.
 
Thanks for that S&PM - I didn't realise the H&B one was concentrate. mallethead
 
Pebble said:
Hiccoughs in the stomach sounds like a definite indication of a partial blockage so needs to be checked out pronto- depite the fact they are pooing you need to check for impaction and blockage slightly further up - get a [*]knoweldgeable vet[/*] to palpate properly......

I had the self same "hiccoughing" symptom with Beechie before we realised what was going on and the (lovely Bunny boy) vet found he was impacted half way up his colon (no physical blockage seen on X ray) so he had an enema - took a further 36 hours of dire stress from me (and syringe feeding every 3 hours plus motility drugs) before he finally shot a load of tiny air gun pellets in front of another of the practice vets on his follow up (who had the cheek to say ...and exactly why madam why do you think this guinea pigs has stasis ?)...I have never cried over piggie poo before - but I couldn;t stop myself that time...the sheer and utter relief :red

Suggest you get him checked out further up is digestive ract.....Pm me if you want to chat further and I will send you my phone number
x
Click to expand...

I dont think it was 'hiccoughing', I didnt hear any sounds just his stomach bobbing, lasted a few minutes?

Since Friday Pepper has shown no symptoms. No crying on toileting. Happy little man. But I'm watching him like a hawk.
Vets had a good feel of his stomach, and Pepper didnt show any pain.
Vet said this would be his last week on Septrin, he wont be precribing anymore.
I am going to study this diet issue, Calcium:Phosphorus ratio. Although looks a bit daunting trying to calculate it as an overall quantity. But I've printed off the Guinea Lynx info too. If it is Interstitial Cystitis is this the same as sterile Cystitis? If it is managed to an extent by diet at least I'll be doing something practical.
At the moment my piggies fresh stuff is a mixture of Romaine lettuce, dill, corrinander, Sweet peppers (every colour), carrot, cucumber, blueberries, chicory, mini corn, parsley, lambs lettuce, melon on the odd occasion, celery leafs.....errrrr I think thats it. Until the summer where they will go out on grass and nibble on that, I grow grasses/clovers but not had any for a while as its not been growing in the cold weather. Be growing some chard beet leafs in the spring too hopfully. Their hay consists of, Orchard, Timothy, meadow and oat/wheat & barley. And the odd readigrass.
 
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