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Pootle's Aftercare from Stones Op & Future Diet help needed

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Tani

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All those following my Pootle post with her having now come home from an op to remove some bladder stones, I wanted some advice.

1) Aside from the Septrin & Pro-biotics & painkillers she is on, what else should I be doing for eating/drinking wise? Bear in mind she is actually eating well and did straight after the op so I don't think she will need forcefeeding with anything.

2) I have seen loads of info re her diet changing to a low calcium one so I can avoid the stones in future, however, I find it all very confusing so I cld really do with a basic list and sizes to follow per piggy if anyone can help?

I have 6 guinea pigs - Pootle has the stones, Oyster suffers bloat. The others are fine.

Currently I feed them a large bowl of fresh veg every morning i.e Celery, cherry toms, cucumber, peppers. I add broccoli now and then & apple & carrots so they dont get bored.

In the evening I feed them either salad leaves (mixed italian leaves or Greens or Romains) or herbs (i.e. parsely, coriander, mint & basil).

In between they get clementine or banana skins which they love and I feed them Burgess pellets (unlimited) & Timothy Herbage Hay (unlimited).

What am I doing wrong and what SHOULD I be feeding them or just her? HELP
:red

I really want to make sure she doesn't suffer again.
 

doglovinpiggylover

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i am sure there is a sticky of diet stuff if you search in the health bit, its really good.
 

Tani

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i am sure there is a sticky of diet stuff if you search in the health bit, its really good.
Many thanks, I will have a read through again.
I have read quite a few different articles and threads within different forums but it all baffles me and I could do with a 'Dummy's Guide' telling me exactly what to try, lol.
So many people have different ideas and although I'm far beyond thick, I struggle with ratios etc. mallethead

x
 

doglovinpiggylover

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I'm sure someone will come along and advise you, i lost a boy following a bladder stone op and was extremely traumatised at the time and didnt really take in the dietry changes i would need to make following his recovery. All i can remember is to give him limited spinach as its high in calcium.

if you dont get any further with any one else, i will have a read through tonight and try to help you.

Ratios etc are mind boggling for anyone!

Also, just a thought but maybe your vet could also give you some advice?
 

Tani

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I'm sure someone will come along and advise you, i lost a boy following a bladder stone op and was extremely traumatised at the time and didnt really take in the dietry changes i would need to make following his recovery. All i can remember is to give him limited spinach as its high in calcium.

if you dont get any further with any one else, i will have a read through tonight and try to help you.

Ratios etc are mind boggling for anyone!

Also, just a thought but maybe your vet could also give you some advice?
Aw, I can imagine how heartbroken you were. I haven't slept the last 2 nights worrying about Pootle, even when I knew she was going to be fine :(

I have just read through Laura's post that you quoted and printed it all off! It looks good but I just need to check with her as to the portion sizes and weights for the pigs.

Re my vets.. no, they don't know anything about the diet and didn't even mention it to me. I wrote out a list of various sites including this one for them to do more research on as not enough vets know about piggies and alot of people have them as pets!
X
 

Wiebke

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It's SOOOO great that Pootle is doing so well!

You don't have any high calcium foods in your diet anyway, apart from parsley (high calcium) and broccoli and rocket (medium), which you do not feed daily anyway. So you don't have to change anything dietwise!

I would recommend giving cystease. It's a bladder coating food supplement for cats that is nowadays given to guinea pigs with bladder stones or chronic UTI problems to help keep the inflammation and damage to the bladder down.
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/digestive-su...0-feline-cystitis-glucosamine-capsules-p-1146
I give 1/4 of a capsule dissolved in 0.5 ml of water daily (actually, I empty one capsule and mix the contents with 2 ml of water for a four day supply) for my bladder piggy Nerys.

Please be aware that whatever you do, bladder stones can make a comeback in some piggies within weeks of an operation. Most stones are composed mainly of carbohydrates - and you can't really influence the highly alcaline ph of guinea pig urine which seems to be even higher than normal in some piggies. I don't want to frighten you, just to ask you to be on the alert.

My Minx made it through two bladder stone ops spaced 14 months apart. That was before I found the forum, and I wish I had had more info then! It might not have changed the outcome, but I could have made her more comfy.
 
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doglovinpiggylover

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It's SOOOO great that Pootle is doing so well!

You don't have any high calcium foods in your diet anyway, apart from parsley (high calcium) and broccoli and rocket (medium), which you do not feed daily anyway. So you don't have to change anything dietwise!

I would recommend giving cystease. It's a bladder coating food supplement for cats that is nowadays given to guinea pigs with bladder stones or chronic UTI problems to help keep the inflammation and damage to the bladder down.
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/digestive-su...0-feline-cystitis-glucosamine-capsules-p-1146
I give 1/4 of a capsule dissolved in 0.5 ml of water daily (actually, I empty one capsule and mix the contents with 2 ml of water for a four day supply) for my bladder piggy Nerys.

Please be aware that whatever you do, bladder stones can make a comeback in some piggies within weeks of an operation. Most stones are composed mainly of carbohydrates - and you can't really influence the highly alcaline ph of guinea pig urine which seems to be even higher than normal in some piggies. I don't want to frighten you, just to ask you to be on the alert.

My Minx made it through two bladder stone ops spaced 14 months apart. That was before I found the forum, and I wish I had had more info then! It might not have changed the outcome, but I could have made her more comfy.
I wish id been on the forum then too, pepper had the op and never ever stopped squeaking but hed lost so much weight and been ill so long i couldnt have put him through any more pain, he got to the stage where no wee was coming out, absolutely awful to watch and what he must have felt..............:0
 

Tani

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It's SOOOO great that Pootle is doing so well!

You don't have any high calcium foods in your diet anyway, apart from parsley (high calcium) and broccoli and rocket (medium), which you do not feed daily anyway. So you don't have to change anything dietwise!

I would recommend giving cystease. It's a bladder coating food supplement for cats that is nowadays given to guinea pigs with bladder stones or chronic UTI problems to help keep the inflammation and damage to the bladder down.
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/digestive-su...0-feline-cystitis-glucosamine-capsules-p-1146
I give 1/4 of a capsule dissolved in 0.5 ml of water daily (actually, I empty one capsule and mix the contents with 2 ml of water for a four day supply) for my bladder piggy Nerys.

Please be aware that whatever you do, bladder stones can make a comeback in some piggies within weeks of an operation. Most stones are composed mainly of carbohydrates - and you can't really influence the highly alcaline ph of guinea pig urine which seems to be even higher than normal in some piggies. I don't want to frighten you, just to ask you to be on the alert.

My Minx made it through two bladder stone ops spaced 14 months apart. That was before I found the forum, and I wish I had had more info then! It might not have changed the outcome, but I could have made her more comfy.
Hi! Thanks for the info and I did ask my vets about the tablets today and said just to get them online. They said they shouldnt harm her but they just couldn't officially recommend them so I will get some and give them a go!

I have also been reading about Uriflow - which Chrissie from Gorgeous Guineas tried with her piggy and she said that it has worked a treat. Apparantely it's supposed to both prevent and break down stones! No idea if anyone else on this forum has ever tried them but it's worth a go. They come from the US though so I thought I would try them once she has recovered properly.

Glad her diet seems ok - I have been really worried about it. Perhaps its giving too many herbs that have caused the problem and so I will try to give more leafy greens etc instead.
When they say leafy greens, is it referring to: Spring greens, Greens (large leaves), salad leaves etc?

:)
 

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I was recommended hydrangea root extract for a piggy with kidney stones you give 0.2ml daily for life to prevent stones forming. (this was recommended by my vet who trained with Peter Gurney, but as not licensed they cant prescribe it)

I got this from a UK website I think its called incensemagic they are based at bristol university I believe and its the tincture you need, if you wanted to try that.
 

Tani

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I was recommended hydrangea root extract for a piggy with kidney stones you give 0.2ml daily for life to prevent stones forming. (this was recommended by my vet who trained with Peter Gurney, but as not licensed they cant prescribe it)

I got this from a UK website I think its called incensemagic they are based at bristol university I believe and its the tincture you need, if you wanted to try that.
Hi!

Thanks for that. I will get on and research it! I believe Peter knew what he was doing and I actually have a book on piggy potions that I had forgotten about so I will see what else it suggests in there :))

Thanks!
x
 

Tani

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I'm needing some urgent advice if there is anyone out there who can help.
Basically Pootle isn't get much better since I brought her home. I thought she was eating but it seems she has initial interest in it then she stops. She doesn't want to drink either. She is now losing even more weight.

I think it's due to a combination of the following:-

She's in pain from her bladder lining still being red raw (as the vet described it). & the
Metacam (for pain relief) isn't working that great and it's giving her severe diarrhoea.

So far I'm giving her:
- 0.5ml Septrim a day.
- 0.2ml Metacam a day (not given today yet though)
- Syringes of water with Bio Lapis & cystitus powder in (to line the bladder)
- 2 x syringes of Oxbow aftercare mush (to try & encourage eating)
- fresh veg/lettuces/herbs - basically anything at all she wants to eat.

She has a few nibbles then stops eating although at first seems really enthusiastic about it. She also won't really eat her hay or nuggets (and I feed them the good Timothy Herbage Dandelion hay and Burgess nuggets!)

Can anyone recommend what's best to do? She does have a vets apt tomorrow morning for a check up but they don't know much about them to be honest and I even had to ask them to order in the Septrin and give me the Bio Lapis!

Is there a way of giving her diarrhoea meds (i.e. diaoreze etc for humans) ? will that work? Shall I keep giving her metacam?
:... :{

xx
 

doglovinpiggylover

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oh gosh i dont know sorry, could you ring out of hours vet for advice? are you syringe feeding?
 

Tani

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Hi all, just an update:-


I managed to speak to Laura-CCC4 who kindly gave me loads of info on what to do.
I have been syringe feeding her (thanks to a very helpful feeding sheet she sent me!) and a visit to my vets this morning meant we are trying a different type of pain relief on her.

We said we would crack open the Champagne we had been saving once she reaches 1kg again! :))
 

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I am glad that you got Laura's sheet - she only gives it out to those who apply for it. Hopefully, the new medication will help. have you added a probiotic into the mix to help stimulating the appetite? Any will do (even the one from p@h), although avipro plus is the only one without added calcium. You can get it over the internet from vet.uk.

All the best for Pootle!
 

Tani

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I am glad that you got Laura's sheet - she only gives it out to those who apply for it. Hopefully, the new medication will help. have you added a probiotic into the mix to help stimulating the appetite? Any will do (even the one from p@h), although avipro plus is the only one without added calcium. You can get it over the internet from vet.uk.

All the best for Pootle!

I have indeed. I read that the Oxbow aftercare contains a probiotic and I'm also giving her Bio Lapis. I will get some of the Avipro though as I didn't think about the calcium side of things.

thanks! :rose
 

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I have indeed. I read that the Oxbow aftercare contains a probiotic and I'm also giving her Bio Lapis. I will get some of the Avipro though as I didn't think about the calcium side of things.

thanks! :rose
Been there myself... before I found the forums! It wasn't great as there was a lot less information out then. rolleyes

"Greens" is an expression for all green leaved food. However, be careful as some can be high calcium, like spinach or kale. I feed mainly sweetheart/pointed cabbage and Cos lettuce with the occasional spring greens (which are a bit more calcium containing). Salad mixes are not too bad either, but I wouldn't feed rocket pure. Fresh coriander is better than parsley. As long as you vary, you should be fine.

In my experience, bladder stones have not so much to do with diet than with the urine ph being wrong/strong genetic component. These factors you cannot influence. Minx' bladder stone turned out to be mainly consisting of carbohydrates when it was analyzed - and you can't keep a piggy from eating; carbs are the main part of a piggy's diet! I was told that her stone was pretty typical in its composition. mallethead

I would be very careful with dried herbs. Any dried stuff has a much higher calcium content than fresh because of the evaporated water. I would give them as an occasional treat only in pinches.
 

Tani

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Ah yes, I realised about the spinach and the parsley - they ADORE these and that would be typical that they aren't that good for them! haha.
They don't seem to like any type of cabbage leaf which is frustrating as they are obviously the cheapest way to get them the vitamins etc.
I don't think I have ever give them dried herbs - only ever fresh ones i.e. mint, basil, parsely & coriander. They are honoured when I give them coriander as it's the only thing I can't stand - even the smell makes me feel sick, haha.

I didn't realise that stones can also be caused just by the carbs :( - that's going to be so hard to monitor.
I am investigating a few options though that I have read about i.e. Shillatong, Uriflow and another tincture recommended on here from Peter Gurney advice.
Hopefully she will never get them back but I have a feeling she will be prone to them, sigh.
 

Tani

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I thought I would update the thread here for anyone else in the same situation.

So, Pootle was supposed to be getting better after the op BUT, she got worse.
She started not only squeeling when going to the toilet but over the weekend, her tummy would go rigid and she would spasm and yelp horrifically when trying to pass her poo.
She spent most of the night in my arms with me massaging her to try and relax her and we also gave her some crushed Buscopan (anti-spasmodic) to try and relax her gut.

After that didn't work, I started to think that there was something else we might have missed.
I started to feel around her lower area and could feel something hard there and she yelped like mad whenever I touched it. Also, the inside of her uretha looked red raw and so when I took her to the vets this morning (who said it was probably just imflammation due to her coming off Metacam and being only on Vetergesic (strong opiat painkiller) BUT, I insisted that it was something else and that they do a scan and another Xray.

When they called me a few hours later, they had only gone and found a huge cluster of stones right in her uretha! The relief I felt was HUGE.
They ended up easing them out and took another X-ray afterwards to make sure they were gone.
Unfortunately, the new Xray also showed up further tiny stones in her bladder - which she had already been opened up the week before to remove them! mallethead

She is home now and still a bit 'drunk' from the gas. She hasn't stopped eating since I brought her home an hour ago which is an amazing sight as she hasn't wanted to eat all week. I understand now as it hurt too much to poo :0

The lovely Laura who has been so helpful with her care and information is going to help me sort out her aftercare with regards to hopefully shifting the remaining stones.
x
 
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