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Pootle's Aftercare from Stones Op & Future Diet help needed

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Just wanted to say that I'm thinking of you and Pootle and i hope that she gets better soon x x x x
 
I am so pleased to hear the stones in her urethra are now gone.....in my experience a piggie finds them far more painful than bladder stones and just stops eating.

First question....have you had an X ray of her kidneys to find out if the stones are starting to form in there rather than just in the bladder? This will affect the treatment.

As far as the diet goes you are doing fine. Septrin to minimise infection is aslo good. Metacam (0.1ml/kg dog suspension once daily given with vet approval ) is anti-inflammatory and a painjiller and is also good for piggies.....it is only after very very long term use that there is a risk of kidney problems so don;t be put off.

Is there anything more you can do? Possibly.

My heart pig Muffin was today diagnosed with a huge bladder stone. An op is out of the question owing to her cardio-respiratory condition. We are therefore going to try feeding her potassium citrate to lower the urine pH to hopefully start to dissolve the stone....vet is ordering in pure stuff but I have also found that cytospurin (mainly potassium citrate) with cranberry does the same job....(cranberry also lowers urine pH).

One other thing you might want to try...I am currently researching and printing out info for my vet......destolit/actigall is reported on guinea lynx to have had some (but not for all) success in pigs with bladder stones that are carbonate in composition (as opposed to oxalate) in terms of dissolving them.

Tomoz I will try and post some links for you to print out and take to your vet....mine is willing to read it and give it a try if they are convinced ( with Muffin, give her condition, we have thing to lose)

I really hope that after this last op Pootle is on the mend. Please keep feeding critical care to keep her guts moving as after invasive surgery my experience is that piggies guts can have problems anyway owing to adhesions forming as a result of the surgery.


HTH
x
 
Hi guys, thanks so much for your thoughts and replies xoxo

Pebble:-

First question....have you had an X ray of her kidneys to find out if the stones are starting to form in there rather than just in the bladder? This will affect the treatment.
Well they took 2 overall X-rays on the day i.e. one before the removal of the uretha stones then one after. Also had one done before the main bladder stone removal. Would this not have shown up any issues with the bladder at the time or is there a specific X-ray just for this?

Re pain relief:- I was giving her Metacam but she did have terrible diarrohea so I have now got her on the recommended Rimadyl along with the Vetergesic as a painkiller.

Up till yesterday, I had been syringing her critical care but since she came home, she has been eating the nuggets, hay and loads of leaves & veg. Would she still need the CC then? I still have some left so it's not a **** but wasn't sure if she was eating on her own if she would still need it?

The potassium citrate you mentioned, is this 'Cystese'? (not sure how * spell it!) - basically coats the bladder and thickens the lining? My vets have some of this and said they would give me some if I couldn't get it online.

Thanks for all the other info. I'm also trying to find something suitable for dissolving the stones after reading about Uriflow and how effective that can be. I think the first thing will be to get the stones diagnosed then I have something to work with.
Love to hear any research though as no one solution works for every piggy!

Thanks so much !
xx x)
 
I am also very interested in this. I have had two piggies out of six with bladderstone problems, one similar to yours had large barbed stones stuck in her urethra and left her in utter, utter agony. After a long op she recovered and nearly two years later is very well! However I am paranoid that she will get them back, she is nearly 6 now and too old to put her through that again so like you, prevention is better than cure.

I also sadly lost one after a bladderstone op a few months ago, she had had issies with cystitis, infections and cystic ovaries and I think this was the last straw, after her op she just did'nt pull through, utterly broke my heart but she managed to live until 4.5 years.

So as a result bladderstones are my biggest fear. My preventative measures are as follows:

ALL Water is filtered, I live in a hard water area and I have visibly noticed that sludge has been reduced to nearly 0 since filtering their water.

I use the Ratewatchers diet from Planet guinea religiously, this is a very healthy but low calcium diet and they love it. (see links below)
http://www.planetguinea.info/key-facts/
http://thepigissue.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/ratewatchers-rainbow-diet.pdf

I syringe any piggies with sludge or potential stones EVERY morning and evening without fail. They have between 15-20mls of filtered water, mixedd with a pinch of Uriflow which I get from the US. This is supposed help breakdown any stones and was recommended to be by a very experienced piggie keeper. Clearly not licensed for guineas but mine have had no ill effects and bizarrely it makes their coats lovely and soft and shiney too!
 
I pressed the button too early!

Here is a link for Uriflow:

http://uriflowreview.com/

I am completely paranoid as I say in my previous posts but I have found that a combination of these things seem to work. I am very careful to check that any treats, herbs or hays I give them are not calcium rich as well. Its the best I can do but I will also follow this post as if there is more to prevent this terrible condition then I'll do it!

Good luck with little Pootle, sounds like she has a wonderful loving owner so she has everything going for her!
 
First if all here is a link to a summary page on guinea lynx with lots of case histories concerning the use of actigall for bladder stones. Some worked, wome didn;t....and right at the top you will see a warning that this is potentially hepatotoxic for hind gut fermenters such as rabbits and piggies. Nevertheless, there have been some notable successes.

http://www.guinealynx.info/records/viewtopic.php?t=93


I am intending to print out the page, plus follow the links to case histories and take it all to my vet for their comments.

Re the Xrays -Your vet shoud have checked there were no stones in the kidneys themselves. When Fleure had a urethral stone - the vet also made sure the Xray taken was positioned to include her kidneys and bladder. She had no bladder stones at all - but both kidneys contained several stones of differing sizes....the largest of which would not be able to pass down the ureter to the bladder and thence to the urethra. This is what governed her treatment as kidney stones are inoperable and just stay in te kidneys getting bigger if they are too big to be flushed through...hence why we tried to shrink them with destolit. We did test the composition of the urethral stone first to ensure it was calcium carbonate (which destolit has been successful with) and not calcium oxalate. (A US research project recently showed that the many piggie stones submitted for analysis were mainly calciumcarbonate...thus disputing the main test book reference (which despite being old is still used by many vets....my vet at the time included) that piggie stones are calcium oxalate.)

Cystease contains glucosamine - not potassium citrate - and is intended to help maintain the integrity of the bladder lining. This reduces discomfort, reduces the risk of infection and hopefuly therefore reduces the episodes of cystitis. Other things that help the bladder lining can be pearl barley gloop (boil up pearl barley until it is mushy, strain off and keep the sticky water/gloop and add cranberry juice).


Cranberry juice is thought to contain molecules that prevent bacteria from sticking to the bladder lining and thus is of more use in urinary tract infections...although it does cause a small short-term rise in urine acidity which also discourages bacterial growth.


Potassium citrate is used to acidify the urine in an attempt to help dissolve the stone and prevent futher stone formation
Uriflow also claims it can break up stones
And as I said above destolit/actigall/ursodiol has also been used to dissolve piggy bladder stones.

As to prevention of more stones forming - following a low calcium diet, use of filtered water as mentioned.
Some people use the chinese herb Shi Lin Tong

Again guinea lynx has a useful article on bladder stones
http://www.guinealynx.info/stones.html



As long as she is eating normal quantities of food rater than just picking at it then you don;t need to use CC......however I would weigh her every day at the moment so see if she maintains/regains weight and doesn;t lose any. Pain can stop a piggie eating hence why painkillers in this situation are advised...the rimadyl etc you mention is fine if she gets diarrhoea with metacam.

Adhesion formation following surgery can occur and can impinge on gut motility....so also keep an eye on her poo output to make sure they are of normal frequency and appearance.

HTH - Good luck..

x
 
Sadly, Pootle is not doing too well. She seemed to be fine after the last batch were removed last week but the other night, started squeeking in pain again. I could feel something hard around her uretha again and presumed the original stones that had been left in her bladder had fallen to this area.
She went in yesterday to be put under to see if they could get them out the same way but had no luck.
Booked her in again this morning for another more experienced vet to try and they just called me to say that it wasn't happening as part of the stone was actually welded to the side of the her wall lining and they couldn't pull it out.

After some advice to get them to call a specialist in another vets who operates alot with piggy stones, I managed to persuade them to do so and I'm now awaiting the results of what they can do.

It looks like I am left with the only option of either them operating again or putting her to sleep as she won't be able to cope with the constant pain 8...

I'm so frustrated and annoyed at the vets for not getting all the stones out in the first place! How they missed them all is beyond me, but I know they will also charge me for all these extra examinations even though it's their fault she is having them grrrr
 
They have taken another X-ray and it's showing more stones have formed. It's like the more we remove, the more they seem to increase :o(

I have tried to make sure we haven't given her anything too calcium rich and not taken it completely out of her diet either so I won't know why they are forming until the test results come back from the stones which can take a long time.

At the moment, they are going to give her fluids and a local aneasthetic in that area and painkillers. I said I would like some time to try the Uriflow to see if that helps break them up a bit so they can dissolve or pass out more easily. After trying all I can, I will then have another Xray to see if anything has happened with them or if they have increased further.

I feel like the stones are like a cancer. She is getting riddled with them and I am watching it happen helpless to help :o(

Unfortunately, because they seem to be appearing as fast as we can remove them, it means that putting her through another operation seems pointless and cruel now.

Heavy heart
:(
 
You poor thing - must be a nightmare. I know how hard it is to struggle with piggy bladder problems, although my issues have usually been more about infections than stones.

Just a couple of thoughts, which you've probably already had/researched!

Is the water you give her hard?

Also, I wonder if the composition of the stones might be phosphorus rather than calcium - possibly the diet is too heavy in phosphorus rather than calcium. Although that shouldn't be the case if you're following Laura's dietary recommendations now.

I've written in your other thread about Eurologist tablets. Might be worth a go, although I don't believe (or with Uriflow) that they dissolve stones, but maybe act as a preventative. I do know that Uriflow can flush out grit though - I've seen it for myself.
 
Hi Pelicano!

You know, I don't know if our water is very hard but it certainly tastes disgusting so as of yesterday, and after some advice on here, we have now dug our Brita filter out and have started using it for the piggies. Can't believe the difference in taste!

Not heard of the tablets you mentioned but I will check my other thread out now. Not had much time to reply the last couple of days as Pootle has been grafted onto my chest :)) and trying to type with one hand is tiring! lol.

Many thanks!
 
RIP Little sweet Pootle.
She gave up the fight with bladder stones last night whilst cradled in my arms, in no pain, and crossed over the Rainbow Bridge.
She will be sorely missed and we both (hubby and I) are devastated and can't stop crying.
We took her to a lovely little country private crematorium up in Wales where we could put her body to rest, forever in our hearts and forever in our minds, waiting to be joined with us and our other piggies in the future.
Love you loads and miss you more than words can ever say, our dearest gorgeous, lovable Pootsy Pie.
8...
 
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