Specialist Possible Kidney Promblems - Looking For Advice

[Jellyfrog]

Hi, sorry this is a bit long-winded…
My girl Florence (4yrs) has started drinking a lot more water and lost weight. I took her to the vets and he checked her for any other signs of illness, looked at her teeth and checked her all over for lumps or swelling. Everything completely fine. He also tested her for diabetes which was negative.
He said the only other thing it could be is kidney problems. He said that if this is the case then “there’s not really anything we can do anyway” and the test required her to stay for the day, a large blood sample, definitely gas and maybe full anaesthetic. I didn’t want to put her through that if there was no point and by process of elimination it seemed that it had to be kidney problems so I didn’t have her tested. From the visit she didn't get any meds or further treatment plans.
Her normal weight is 1.06kg, but yesterday she was 0.81kg. There's no sign of pain or discomfort when she pees, she’s still very active and interested in food so I don't see her as in immediate danger but the weight loss worries me and I know they can deteriorate very quickly.
If anyone has any advice on what to do next it would be much appreciated. Should I have her tested? Is there anything else it could be? Are there any treatments for kidney failure, will she need pain relief or should I just leave her? Should I reduce the amount of calcium she has or will that not make a difference? Should I be giving her anything to help with her weight - I'm going on holiday in less than 2 weeks and she won’t be able to have anything extra whilst I’m away so I don’t really want to start hand-feeding regularly – any thoughts? Or should I just leave her be? Any other advice or info? Thank you to anyone with any ideas.

 

[helen105281]

It's really difficult to say what it could be, did the vet suggest an xray or scan at all? Is she eating ok for herself, I know you said she is interested in it but is she able to chew ok? over what period of time has she lost the weight? Has your vet checked her teeth?

If it is kidney failure it is usually pallative care only and pain relief would be needed but I think other possibilities need to be explored first.

 

[helen105281]

Also, please could you update your location as it will he;p with the advice we give. Have you checked our recommended vets locator?

 

[Jellyfrog]

Hi, thanks for getting back to me. Vet didn't talk about any kind of scan, from what he said the only way he would check would be this blood test. The vet checked her teeth and used a light to see the back ones, said everything looks fine.

She is eating for herself and chewing seems normal - her favourite (spinach) goes straight down. However, she is housed full time with another g-pig and whilst the food is disappearing from the cage at the same rate as normal its possible that she's eating less and the other pig is taking her left-overs. I have spotted some smaller than normal poops around the cage which I presume are hers, but having said that, her weight has pretty much stayed the same all week - it's only 0.02kg (3/4oz) lower today than it was on Monday.

I wasn't able to look after the guinea pigs from the start of January and they only came back to me end of April. During that time they weren't weighed. She started drinking more mid-June but there were no other signs of illness so I thought it might just be the hot weather. When I got her back in April I thought the water levels were going down quickly but I changed the water bottle and it seemed to stop so I don't know if this was part of it or if it was just a leaky bottle. I do usually weigh but when I got them both back I didn't start again which I now feel quite guilty about. But from picking her up I noticed last week that she was feeling noticeably lighter so that's when I plonked her on the scales and when I saw the difference I phoned the vet. So the only weights I have to go on are from December 28th (1.07kg) and this past week (I've been weighing every 2 days, today was the same as Friday).

I've added my location (Aberdeenshire). The vet I've always used is a local one who isn't exotics specialised but does do all of the rabbit and rodent cases that they get so does have more experience than other regular vets.

Thanks for taking the time to read through this.

 

[Lady Kelly]

I lost a renal piggy this January. She initially went to the vets on suspicion of ovarian cysts which she did have and they burst on examination. However, the vet did find that she was losing protein through her urine and a further test showed it wasn't diabetes. I was also told that the only way to check was a blood test which is no easy feat on a guinea pig, however, pretty much everything had been ruled out and the protein in the urine was a sure indicator of kidney problems. Did the vet say they had found anything in her urine which led them to believe it would be kidney problems after ruling out diabetes?

To give you a flavour of what I went through with Bea - she was "diagnosed" without going through the full blood test at around 5.5 years of age. She was fine in herself and was generally a large piggy (around 1100g most of the time). I was told around July/August time 2013 that she had renal disease and she did continue to lose weight through her urine and ended up managing to maintain a weight of around 600-650g for quite some time. Just after Christmas 2014 (yes that's right - 16/17 months later!) she seemed to be struggling a bit more and went a little off her food (she had always been a normal piggy up until then - scoffing her face and running around) and the vet prescribed her metacam daily to help keep her comfortable. Two weeks later, at the beginning of January this year we found her collapsed, she could barely move and was drooling so we helped her over the bridge straight away, the night before she had run over to the bars for her daily metacam and to scoff veg. I need to add that in November 2014 she was diagnosed with a further ovarian cyst and just after Christmas 2014 we felt the start of what was likely to be an abscess under her chin. Basically, don't give up on your piggy even the old ones can still fight for quite a while - my vets were shocked with her age and medical history that she went a further 18 months but it was a lovely time and we bonded even more during this time.

 

[biscandmatt]

i wouldn't have jumped straight to the conclusion that it definitely is kidney disease to be honest. piggies drink extra for alot of reasons, one of them being pain. i wouldn't advise leaving her because something is obviously going on and it will sadly only probably get worse. i think the only way to find out is with extra tests. the ga should only be very light but will allow the vet to check the back teeth properly (you can't see everything properly during a regular consult) and allow them to take blood aswell which can be sent to the lab for a full analysis. a full blood count is always good to see how the organs are functioning, and will allow you to either rule out or begin to 'treat' the kidney disease. it will also show up whether the body is likely fighting an infection of some sort by the results of the white blood cells. they elevate slightly in times of stress so a vet visit could be enough to raise them, but the vet should still beable to tell if they are elevated enough to suspect an infection somewhere in the body.

kidney disease can't be cured but it can be managed if the disease isn't too advanced. although to show up on tests it will be advanced, there are still treatments that can be given, like fluids, pain relief, and even steroids.

i went through this with eddie last year. in his case, he was already very poorly and despite intensive treatment, admission, all the above treatment, we had to let him go. but had we known earlier, there was a chance we could have provided palliative care until the disease progressed too far.

if it were me and the vet does strongly suspect kidney disease, i would get the testing done whilst she is still fairly bright within herself. the weight loss is concerning and i think without exploring further, she may end up more poorly and then have to have it all done anyway. i understand your worry with the ga and staying at the vets but weigh up whether you think she will end up more poorly and having the tests anyway at a later date and if you you think this is likely, then acting now is probably best.

good luck and i hope you can find out what is wrong.

eta: a urine culture may also be useful. my piggy maisie was possibly thought to have kidney issues at one stage as her urine was very watery and she was losing protein through her urine. she also had weight loss. the bloods thankfully showed that she didn't have kidney disease but infact chronic cystits and problems with her ovarian cysts. without further investigation, we may have just assumed she did infact have kidney disease. so i think always have things confirmed so you know exactly what you are dealing with.

 

[Jellyfrog]

Thanks to everyone who replied, its good to hear that there are things that can be done for her, so bit of an update...

I took her back to the vets for the blood test today (I had to wait because the vet was on holiday). The vet didn't manage to get any blood, Flo started breathing very heavily whilst under the anaesthetic so vet woke her up. However, vet did say that when she went under to start with her breathing became quite raspy and as her skin was also dry we're treating for an infection, Baytril 0.2ml x2 a day and Fibreplex 1ml x1 a day. Vet thought that with these symptoms added in as well it might be Cushing's Disease - we'll try the blood test again but the vet wanted the antibiotic course done first and unfortunately I'll be on holiday by then so it'll have to be when I get back. One thing that was a bit odd, when she came back from the test both of her eyes were crusty round the edges (they definitely weren't before she went) is this a common side-effect or should I be worried?

 

[gizzy]

I would still be thinking diabetes , what were the readings ? We're the results based on 3 samples done over 3 consequtiv days early morning.
1 test is just not unough, to get a reliable reading

May also worth considering a good wee and poop could be responsible for some of the weigh loss

 

[Jellyfrog]

She's becoming quite uninterested in food. Only a few of the veggies were gone yesterday and barely any this morning, but I know that the bayril could cause her to loose her appetite. Today i've managed to get her to eat some grass and I'm pretty sure she's had some hay but she did keep dropping it could it be 'fake' eating? Monday before the vets she was 0.82kg (28.8oz) and today she's down to 0.78kg (27.5oz). I just cant tell if its a reaction to the baytril or if she's becoming more ill - anyone got any opinions? I've been giving the Fibreplex in one go because that's what the vet said but should I split it up into smaller doses more often? I just don't know if this is cause to call the vet or wait and see if she picks up, I'm going away on Saturday so am very worried about her declining whilst I am away or needing more intense care just when I need to leave.

gizzy, the diabetes test was a blood-glucose test to check the sugar levels in her blood. The vet just clipped one of her nails short and took a couple of drops of blood from it which he popped into a reader. He said the sugar level was within normal range so diabetes was ruled out. When she has the full blood test I could ask for it to be tested again for diabetes?

 

[biscandmatt]

i'd consider looking into getting the tests i mentioned above and finding an exotics/cavy-savvy vet aswell. whilst your vets seem to have more experience than other regular vets, i still don't think the treatment sounds quite as it should be to be honest.

 

[gizzy]

Hi there you can do the test you self , you just need a box of wee analysis test sticks , a 9 peramitor is ideal as it has pads for
other conditions like, blood in the wee, p H Ect,

The diabetes pad is very easy to read , you hold the pad against a graph , and it tells you if it is normal or if it is elevated .

It ma sound a bit confusing but it comes with instructions and it will take you step by step .

Glucose normal reading is pale blue , but if there is a problem looming , the scale then go's to a mucky green, right through 5 sages to a dark brown.
So you can't realy go wrong , an yo process with testing you will de able to keep one step ahead of a lot of the common problems .

N B it is only an indicator and should be assessed in Combernation, with other symptoms , and if anything is abnormal , see you vet and tell
him of your findings
Also important not to be come a slave to them , as just like weighing them , getting to consumed by
theses checks may take some of the fun out of piggy keepING

 

[Jellyfrog]

Went back to the vet today. Suspected Baytril intolerance but the vet said it looks like the infection is all cleared up so we're on Emeprid and critical care now. A full out day to day to get her systems moving - 0.3 Emeprid every 6 hours and Critical Care every 3 hours and I think I'll give her some Fibreplex as well. Then tomorrow it'll be twice a day for the Emeprid and Critical Care up until Monday or Tuesday. The neighbours have agreed to help out with her meds for a few days but they wont be doing it all holiday and probably wont notice if something's wrong so we need lots of good vibes sending Flo's way for her to pick up in the next couple of days.

Vet gave her a full check over again - no diabetes and a lot of feeling of the kidneys and bladder seems to have ruled out problems with them, basically vets pretty convinced it's cushings so medicine's ordered to collect the first day I'm back and we'll organise to have the test as well.

Thanks again for all the responses.

 

[gizzy]

Just a bit of info,

There a case a while ago about the correct method of storing meds , and the shelf life ,apparently someone's vet despenced all meds in clear plastic bottles ,

You vet will probabaly despenced the emerprid in a dark bottle, but as an added precision , best store it in a dark place , as you probably know emerprid
is very light sensitive , (as are a lot of meds , ) but more so for drugs like emerprid , apparently it can be rendered uselless, in a very short perod of time .

 

[Jellyfrog]

Just thought I'd pop in an update . After I got back from hols, her symptoms had increased to some fur loss around her rear and occasional spouts of rapid breathing, which just confirmed the cushing's. So, she was started on a course of 0.5ml of vetoryl once a day for two weeks. To start with there was no improvement and she continued to lose weight all the way down to 0.71kg, there was a lot of disappointment. But then came day 10 and she had maintained her weight and then day 11 and she had put some on. She's continued to put on weight since then, although it is very gradual. She's had no more meds since the end of the vetoryl course, but we're now up to 0.77kg. Like I say the weight gain is very gradual but it is there and still continuing, so things are looking up for Flo. Thank you again for everyone's advice with this.