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Possible pasteurella and a very sick pig

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zoeH

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Hi all
I am new to the forum and in need of some advice. We got our first guinea pigs, Ethelred and Emmeline, about 5 months ago from Pets at Home. A few days after bringing them home we noticed Ethelred had a bit of a snuffly nose and made a vets appointment, but ended up cancelling it because it cleared up. She hasn't really thrived like Emmeline, she's a little scrawny compared to her friend but we never worried too much because she's so bright and inquisitive! Unfortunately a few days ago she developed a runny/crusty nose and her breathing became really heavy, like her nose was completely congested. After a trip to the vet, she has been prescribed Baytril for what the vet suspects is pasteurella. But what has really worried us is that after listening to her lungs, the vet said she possibly had pneumonia as a baby and has been left with scarring, because they sound so rough. She said the Baytril will hopefully clear up her nose and help her breathing but she will most likely have relapses and not live as long as her sister :( Has anyone had experience of any sickly guinea pigs like our girl? We're desperate to find out anything we can possibly do to keep her healthy and strong, anything about what we could feed her to help put weight on or how we can look after her lungs would be so appreciated. She's still bumbling around and chatting away to us which helps, she's quite a little character and I hate the thought of her sliding down hill :(
 
So sorry your girl is feeling poorly.
I haven't had experience with your scenario, Hopefully someone will be along to advise you shortly.
The one thing I would suggest to help her breathing is to make sure the hay you use isn't dusty.
I've been having trouble with hay lately ( for me it's been eye pokes ) so have tried a few different ones, I bought the last lot from Dust Free Hay, according to their website it's 99% dust free ( and not the same as dust extracted) and I have to say it does seem to be free of dust, take a look and see what you think
http://www.dustfreehay.co.uk/index.html
Hope that helps, when you're looking and long term ways to help your little one it will probably lots of little considerations that will help her stay healthy. I'm sure lots of forum members will have more suggestions for you.
 
I'm sorry as I don't have experience with the illness in piggies but I'm going to take a guess and say that pasteurella in piggies is the same/similar as in rabbits.

One of my bunnies, Evie, has pasteurella. She has had it on and off now since we had her, a course of Baytril and/or septrim will clear it up but then a few weeks later it will come back. There's no "cure" as such and will come and go as it pleases. Stress and temp fluctuations can add to it though.

With regards to the pasteurella, it's expensive but the best thing to do is to get a culture swab done, then you know exactly what bacteria you are fighting. As far as I'm aware pasteurella is a basket name and various different bacterias can cause a flare up.

If you can manage it in bunnies they can have a long and happy life. Feeding the same as the others has seen my little Evie grow into a healthy, happy, rabbit who does have the occasional sneezing fit but it doesn't impact her quality of life. When it gets really bad, then we take her to the vets and start on the antibiotics again.

Providing it is managed, it doesn't have to be a life sentence. :)
 
I have a lot of experiance with respitory infections in buns but not piggies I'm afraid. Of course he had it very severly and was on medication twice a day for the last few years, so this is worst case senario.

His lungs were also scared as you mentioned and unfortunately I lost my little darling to the bridge last week :0 but I can hand on heart say that I am 100% certain he had a happy fulfilling life despite everything.

I hope your piggy stays well but if unfortunately it does return I have a couple of things:

It might be worth asking your vet if piggies can have bisolvon. Its excellent for thining mucus.

Also maybe someone more knowledgeable can advise re enchinea - is it safe for piggies? It can be very helpful in supporting the immune system.

Also try to keep stress to a minimum.

If it gets really bad possibly discuss use of a nebuliser with your vet. Saline on its own is excellent at helping clear the secretions but you can also nebulise baytril. It can help as they baytril is being inhaled and getting straight to the source of the problem rather than travelling round the whole body first.

Dust free hay is also excellent. I never realised how dusty hay was until I used this stuff.
 
pasturella is a very persistent respiratory illness, we had it in the goat herd and any that had it was treated with a strong dose of tetracycline antibiotic (which cannot be used on pigs, typical) which could reoccur from time to time but on the whole they all recovered well enough. I am replying because once you have treated them successfully it wont go away for good, they retain scaring in their lungs and are sensitive to changes in temperature and damp conditions. It was something that the kids picked up while with their mother, not every goat had it, but it did tend to run in familys just one thing we noticed, it may have been a predisposition to the bug or a slightly hampered immune system to the bug.

I never lost a goat with it, they lived happy and long lives.
 
Thank you all so much for your help, and reassurance! I was panicking so much about the little'un! I'm investigating if dust free hay will deliver to N.Ireland, if not does anyone local know where I could get some top quality hay? I've spent the day switching bedding from woodshaving to fleece and have hoovered and cleaned the whole house top to bottom to try and keep it as dust free as I can, so hopefully this will help her along. Both of them have been out having a run around in the house today and although I can still hear her wheezing, she's been scurrying around the place and munching through her food like nobody's business! Hopefully that's a good sign and the antibiotics will take care of things, all ideas about how I can keep her in top form are welcome!
 
Wrong diagnosis?

Well it's been a week now and Ethelred still has a runny nose, sneezing and is wheezing horribly :( The vet said that the Baytril could take more than a week but I can see no improvement in her breathing at all (she is definitely running around more and happier in herself though) so have to try and get another appointment. I'm starting to worry that my vet has missed something though, I've read that pasteurella is highly contagious and my other pig still has no symptoms whatsoever :{ also that it usually presents with crusty eyes and abcesses, not something the little 'un has any sign of. Does anyone have any other thoughts on what it could be? It's breaking my heart to watch her struggle for breath, there's a visible *gasp* sometimes as she trys and I just feel so helpless :( Both my girls are in a new fleece bed (which they do love), getting fresh veg every day, taking their medicine and some Beaphar Tummy Care and I've put olbas oil on tissues around the outside of the cage to try and clear Ethelred's nose! I just don't know what else to do :(
 
My cleo had problems with her breathing, my vet never mentioned that it may be pasteurella, but she was a P@H guinea pig too and we think she had pneunomia as a baby which has given her scarring on her lungs. A few months ago she was really bad, with really heavy, rattley breathing, she didnt have any nose discharge or anying so I don't know if she has exactly the same condition as your ethelred, but what was really helpful was the zithromax antibiotic instead of baytril which was advised by other forum members. Cleo also had an oral steroid too which reduced inflammation in her lungs and I think these two medicines have saved her life, shes now doing really well, she will never be 100% but she is really happy and active. Like I said, I dont know whether they have the same conditions, but they do sound a bit similar, so maybe these medicines are something you could talk to your vet about to see if they could benefit, especially if baytril isn't helping much, as we tried that too first with no success.

My vet also advised to make sure she wasn't in a too warm environment as this can make the breating worse. Obviously make sure she is warm enough, just not too warm.

Hope some of this info is useful for you xx
 
Hi zoe

Sorry I've come a bit late to your thread.

Given the lower (lungs) respiratory involvement (ie pneumonia past or present, scarring etc) I would suggest that a course of fruseamide diuretic is the best option at the moment to help your piggie get rid of what sounds to me to be fluid on the lungs. Antibioitics won;t do this - a diuretic will. This then gives the antibiotics a chance to kill the bugs that have originally caused these symptoms.

Given the symptoms you describe, an injection of 10mg/kg diuretic by the vet followed by a 2-3 further doses at 8-10mg/kg followed by 2mg/kg twice daily for another 3 days would be the "type" of regime to be considered based upon what my vet has previously prescribed for my piggies who have had these types of lung conditions. There is an oral version "frussol" to save you going back to the vet twice daily for injections.

Unless your vet has performed a nasal swab/culture there is absolutely NO guarantee that the cause is Pasteurella. Respiratory infections in guinea pigs can be caused by numerous bacteria (and other mcirobes) including the following: Bacteria: Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, Pasteurella, Bordetella, Klebsiella, Pseudomonas, Haemophilus
If eyes are also involved then Chlamydia may be indicated.
There are also virus infections including Adenovirus...but from the symtpoms it sounds thhese may be unlikely.

As the infection is not being cleared up by baytril it may be a different antibiotic (together with the diuretic) needs to be tried. Possible suggestions include: Zithromax, Septrin, long-acting tetracycline injections, marbocyl . A microbial culture with antibioitic sensitivity testing is the only sure-fire way of determining the best anitbioitic to use.

Most important at the moment is to try to persuade your vet to give diuretic....and you might want to print out this post and take it to your vets tomorrow (yes you need to act quickly)

....(For your vets information - I have a PhD in Infectious animal diseases and a lot of experience with piggies with abnormal lung conditions)


Also make sure your piggie is eating and if she isn;t then start syringe feeding (and weighing daily) in order to keep her guts going.
HTH
x
 
What do you use as bedding? Sawdust isn't good for them and could aggravate the condition, also could it be an allergy rather than pasturella although it sounds like my rabbit who has had a course of baytril for pasturella, if he has another bout of the snuffles he will be having the , I'm sure I read that the test is ineffective once you've started a course of antibiotics and needs to be done before .


Hope you get to the bottom of it soon and your piggie feels better
 
AndreaJane said:
So sorry your girl is feeling poorly.
I haven't had experience with your scenario, Hopefully someone will be along to advise you shortly.
The one thing I would suggest to help her breathing is to make sure the hay you use isn't dusty.
I've been having trouble with hay lately ( for me it's been eye pokes ) so have tried a few different ones, I bought the last lot from Dust Free Hay, according to their website it's 99% dust free ( and not the same as dust extracted) and I have to say it does seem to be free of dust, take a look and see what you think
http://www.dustfreehay.co.uk/index.html
Hope that helps, when you're looking and long term ways to help your little one it will probably lots of little considerations that will help her stay healthy. I'm sure lots of forum members will have more suggestions for you.
Click to expand...

hiya how heavy are their bales? if its not much more expensive per kg than what I am using I might have to get some as my eyes are so itchy when i am with the animals!
 
Well our trip to the vet last night didn't go great. She said Ethelred was in borderline respiratory distress, gave her a steroid injection and also some Bisolvon powder to be taken twice daily. We've got a follow up appointment for Monday evening when we need to "make a decision" in the vet's words :( I feel pretty much rock bottom now, after taking her Bisolvon powder yesterday and today, Ethelred's breathing sometimes sound almost clear, and then in a heartbeat she'll be gasping for air again. I was really hoping for a huge improvement with the new drugs but right now all I can see is the worst case scenario. I'm just hoping that the Bisolvon is taking a little time to kick in and she'll feel better in the morning. There are times when she sounds absolutely fine, and I just feel so optimistic and relieved, and then the dreaded rattle comes back and I feel helpless again :(

Thank you all so much for your advice so far though, it really is helping me through.
 
I'm afraid little Ethelred didn't make it. First thing on Sunday morning, she sounded great and she seemed to be munching through her veggies and I really thought she was going to get better. But about an hour later she started struggling to breathe and I just knew she wasn't going to last much longer. I couldn't bear to watch her panicking so we decided to rush her in to the vet, where she was sadly put to sleep. Me and my OH are both heartbroken, I just don't know what to do with myself. I've done nothing but cry for the last 24 hours and now I'm trying to keep it together in work. The worst part is that I don't know what to do with my other piggie, Emmeline. Will she be ok on her own? I can't bear the thought of getting a "replacement" I can hardly even look at Emmeline and I know that's a terrible thing to say, she's just such a painful reminder of who's missing right now. i know it's not her fault and she needs us now more than ever, I just hope it gets easier.
 
Hi. My younger Guinea Pig, a boar, aged 14 months has just got over a chest and lung infection which the vet termed this morning as probably a pasteurella infection. He has been treated by the vets now for 10 days. He was started on Baytril to start with and also Frusol for his digestive stystem to help his food pass through. He did stop eating on day two and I have had to syringe feed him with Recovery mixture and water. Last Friday night was the worst as he nearly choked to death and we had to call at the emergency vets clinic at 9pm.
When I tucked him up for the night I really did not expect to see him alive again. But low and behold he was waiting for me on Saturday morning and eager to start eating again. Also last Friday, he was given daily injections of a different type of antibiotic, and that was the turning point. The Baytril did not seem to be having any affect. He really has been so so ill. He has a mate he shares a cage with and touch wood he is unaffected to date. He is very much bigger and stronger and my little Guinea Pig is really quite a tiny one, golden and gorgeous but a little bit small. Wondered whether he was the runt of the litter.

Anyway, the prognosis is a bit mixed as it can come back and he could have some lung damage from what I am reading and from what I have been told. I couldnt bear to loose him without a fight. The vets bill was big but he deserves the chance of a longer life. If it does come back then I will have to think very seriously about what to do. In the meantime he is now as bright as a button and enjoying life again. The experience has been something of an eye opener as to Guinea Pig devotion, our Billy, his mate tried his very best to pull him through on that Friday night, he licked his ears and around his face and tried to instigate play and when all else failed he just lay next to him as he gasped for his breath. It was really very humbling to watch. I hope your Guinea Pig gets better soon.
 
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I am sorry to hear the latest news which I did not have chance to read before I sent my reply to your post. I know very much just how you are feeling as I lost a much loved pig aged three and a half almost two years ago. He had a bladder stone removal operation and just did not get over having the stitches in, he reacted badly to them. I vowed that I would never have another one operated on. As a friend said, Guinea pigs arent meant to suffer, but I am afraid from my experinces they really really do. I had two border collies in my earlier life. The first one a discarded pup at 3 months and rescued by my husband who lived to be 16 years and my second one 6 months after lived to 14 years and they hardly saw a vet so hardy they were. When anything does happen to these two boys I will certainly not have more much as I think they are great pets for older folk like us. The same love and devotion goes into them as does with a dog if you are doing it right that is but the shortness of their lifespan can be I think prohibitive really. Problem is, we just get too attached but then I couldnt do it any other way.
 
My little pig had very similar, was from pets at home and passed away this morning :( We only had her 3 weeks. That place is a disgrace the way they breed, never again!
 
Hello. In September my youngest boar, Bobby, developed a cyst just below his jaw. This eventually popped and it actually looked like he had been bitten. In November he developed a pneumonia type infection which the vet called Pasteurella and it seems it can affect farm animals and wild birds. Bobby has always had a tendency to choke but he really was at deaths door in December and the vet treated him with Baytril but he didnt improve. Then, they decided to change the treatment and gave him a different antibiotic by injection. I was at the vets every morning for a week but it did the trick. After one injection he started to improve and is now very well. In my experience Baytril doesnt seem very effective in Guinea Pigs though I realise there are only one or two the vet can use. 2 years ago I lost a lovely boy after a bladder stone operation but he reacted badly to the stiches but again Baytril was the antibiotic of choice and did not work. I have read that lumps and Pasteurella are sometimes both present and yesterday I am sad to say that I found another lump on our Bobbys face. I truly hope that this does not herald another bout of Pasteurella Virus, the vet did say that it can come back. I hope this has been of some help to you and has given you hope. These litte pets are very precious to us arent they and the thought of losing them is so upsetting. Our Bobby lives with Billy an older re-homed boar who is very wise and very tolerant and up to now, fingers crossed has been well. Best of Luck to you.
 
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