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Raw Fed Dogs

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Pettinainpigs said:
My Keeshond (the black and silver bigger dog in the photo has always had raw food as his breeder is a great believer in it, he gets a raw chicken wing for breakfast and then has a Natures Menu complete frozen block for tea, and raw bones when available. He's 11years old View attachment 47436
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Wow! He looks amazing!
 
Yes - I've raw fed for over 20 years now. Mine have chicken carcass, wings, chicken and duck necks, various lamb bones, venison bones, green tripe, offal, Smart Barf mixed veg/herbs/nuts/berries, sardines, raw eggs ........... I could go on LOL. My vets accept my decisions but then I also won't do annual vaccinations so they don't even bother trying to change my mind! It's a sad fact that nutrition training in vet school is paid for and sponsored by the likes of Pedigree and Hills, so the training is somewhat biased. Raw/natural all the way for my guys.
 
Pettinainpigs said:
My Keeshond (the black and silver bigger dog in the photo has always had raw food as his breeder is a great believer in it, he gets a raw chicken wing for breakfast and then has a Natures Menu complete frozen block for tea, and raw bones when available. He's 11years old View attachment 47436
Click to expand...
Mackers said:
Yes - I've raw fed for over 20 years now. Mine have chicken carcass, wings, chicken and duck necks, various lamb bones, venison bones, green tripe, offal, Smart Barf mixed veg/herbs/nuts/berries, sardines, raw eggs ........... I could go on LOL. My vets accept my decisions but then I also won't do annual vaccinations so they don't even bother trying to change my mind! It's a sad fact that nutrition training in vet school is paid for and sponsored by the likes of Pedigree and Hills, so the training is somewhat biased. Raw/natural all the way for my guys.
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Of course it's everyone's individual choice and there's a lot of dogs that are fed kibble and perfectly healthy but I do agree with you! Although I'm not as adventurous and stick to feeding the brand 'nutriment' complete raw meals with ground bone and I give a full bone (chicken neck etc) as a treat every now and then.

Can I ask @Mackers if you don't vaccinate, do you titre test instead? This is something I'd like to do but as I run a dog home boarding service, the council reinforce that my dog has to be vaccinated every year
 
Sian25 said:
Do you all feed full bones? If so, like what? I have to keep hold of the bones I give to my shih tzu as he tries to swallow them whole. He mainly just has the bone ground down in his meals but I would like to feed him full bones to clean his teeth, I just worry about him swallowing whole
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As another raw feeding convert, I always fed my lot bones.
The secret lay in making sure I got ones that were simply too big for them to swallow whole. Initially they were always super excited, but once they realised they couldn't eat it in one go, they would settle down for a good long chew.
I always favored beef bones - knuckles are great and for big dogs - (mine were) and a femur was always a long term project!
A whole chicken also made a good treat on special occasions, and on a day to day basis chicken necks were popular.
A turkey leg should be a decent size for a Shiu tzu, and no worries about her swallowing that in one go.
 
Mackers said:
Yes - I've raw fed for over 20 years now. Mine have chicken carcass, wings, chicken and duck necks, various lamb bones, venison bones, green tripe, offal, Smart Barf mixed veg/herbs/nuts/berries, sardines, raw eggs ........... I could go on LOL. My vets accept my decisions but then I also won't do annual vaccinations so they don't even bother trying to change my mind! It's a sad fact that nutrition training in vet school is paid for and sponsored by the likes of Pedigree and Hills, so the training is somewhat biased. Raw/natural all the way for my guys.[/QUOTE

]I Haven't done annual vaccinations on either of my dogs for several years now - There was an article in Dog World back in 2004 titled " Yearly jab a thing of the past? Boosters may put animals at risk" about a letter written by 31 vets in The Veterinary Times. After studying research done in America they concluded that for some diseases immunity lasted a minimum of 7 years.
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Sorry, must get the hang of how to put things in quotes but separate from my post - the bottom half of that post was my return comment :/
 
Pettinainpigs said:
Sorry, must get the hang of how to put things in quotes but separate from my post - the bottom half of that post was my return comment :/
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Yes I've read a lot of things about over vaccinating too. Do you just not vaccinate then or do you get a titer test done at the vets? I really want to titer rather than vaccinate but the council won't accept it
 
No, I've never had my dogs titre tested. They had their puppy vaccinations and some booster vaccinations. After careful consideration and talking to the breeder of one of my dogs (who is also the KC health rep for the breed) I took the decision that their immune systems would be, by now, very adequately protected. The article I mentioned in my earlier post also states that "evidence shows the duration of immunity for rabies, canine distemper, canine parvovirus vaccines among others, is a minimum of seven years" We as pet owners can make the choice as to wether to continue booster vaccinations. Unfortunately we don't have that choice if we want/need to use boarding kennels.
 
Pettinainpigs said:
No, I've never had my dogs titre tested. They had their puppy vaccinations and some booster vaccinations. After careful consideration and talking to the breeder of one of my dogs (who is also the KC health rep for the breed) I took the decision that their immune systems would be, by now, very adequately protected. The article I mentioned in my earlier post also states that "evidence shows the duration of immunity for rabies, canine distemper, canine parvovirus vaccines among others, is a minimum of seven years" We as pet owners can make the choice as to wether to continue booster vaccinations. Unfortunately we don't have that choice if we want/need to use boarding kennels.
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Very interesting. So I wonder if it's vets that are using vaccinations to make money? Or maybe the vaccination companies advise them to be yearly, not sure as I've not looked too far into it as as I said, i have to get them done yearly with running a home boarding service
 
This is really interesting, I have a dog with arthritis in his back legs, would this benefit him and if so what kind of meat would be beneficial? Could he have this along side his normal food?

I also don't have my dog vaccinated, never have in the 14 years we've had him, never did any dog's previously.
 
I wouldn't like to comment/point the finger as to why vets continue to promote annual booster vaccinations, but the pharmaceutical companies that produce and distribute vaccines are certainly wealthy/powerful companies. As regards health benefits of barf feeding, I don't know if it specifically helps, all I can say is my 2 dogs are still quite active - although the German Spitz is currently on tinned (owner hangs head in shame) Have you tried supplement of chondroitin and glucosamine?
 
Sian25 said:
Very interesting. So I wonder if it's vets that are using vaccinations to make money? Or maybe the vaccination companies advise them to be yearly, not sure as I've not looked too far into it as as I said, i have to get them done yearly with running a home boarding service
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I used to have titre tests done yearly on my dogs, and I never had one come back without showing a very strong response (aka fully protected).
They were all rescue (7 in total over the years) and had been fully vaccinated for at least the first 6 years of their lives (until they came to me).

As mentioned by Sian the problem was always going to be boarding, so we ended up using a pet sitter who came to our home, so vaccination certificates weren't necessary.

The reason that there isn't a whole lot of research available on the efficiency of vaccinations and how they may not actually be required annually (or indeed ever, after the first course) is because there is no funding for this research.
All research needs funding, and well designed studies take time and cost money, as well as requiring resources (labs, samples, staff, equipment, time, etc).
The money usually comes from a company or group with a vested interest in the results, because if they put money up front and a new drug is discovered (for example) the company will make lots of money selling the new drug.

Who would have a vested interest in finding out that vaccinations are not actually necessary?
Other than a few clued in pet owners, the answer is no one.
Obviously the companies that make and sell the vaccinations don't, because it will result in a huge loss of revenue for them.
And although many vets will never admit it, yearly vaccinations are good for business. They ensure that even someone with fairly healthy animals, will make a visit once a year, and there will be the vaccine markup plus the profit from the consultation fee. Vaccines are a simple and effective cash cow for everyone involved with them.

So the real issue with vaccine research, is that while everyone is making money from annual vaccines, no one will be finding the money for research that may just prove they aren't really necessary.
 
Sian25 said:
Of course it's everyone's individual choice and there's a lot of dogs that are fed kibble and perfectly healthy but I do agree with you! Although I'm not as adventurous and stick to feeding the brand 'nutriment' complete raw meals with ground bone and I give a full bone (chicken neck etc) as a treat every now and then.

Can I ask @Mackers if you don't vaccinate, do you titre test instead? This is something I'd like to do but as I run a dog home boarding service, the council reinforce that my dog has to be vaccinated every year
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Yes, I titre test. I only vaccinate pups at 12 weeks or older and I do ONE DHPP vaccine without the Lepto element. Then they have nothing for 3 years, then a titre test. Although titres don't necessarily need to show a response to confirm immunity. A high reading could just mean that they've come into contact with the disease recently and they have mounted an immune response resulting in elevated levels. I go by WSAVA recommendations which says immunity lasts for around 7 years, but probably for life! I hate using drugs and chemicals on my pets unnecessarily and only flea treat if I actually see a flea. Or worm if I suspect worms.
 
And as for vets who STILL recommend annual vaccination - grrrrrrr. They KNOW it is uneccessary and could potentially cause more harm than it offers protection, which goes expressly against their oath of 'do no harm'. Even the drug companies now admit that once every 3 years is sufficient. But SOME vets STILL allow people to do it and happily take their cash.
 
This is such a good thread! My dog is 10 months old so has only had his puppy vaccinations up to now. As I say, I will have to get his boosters done when due in a few months time due to my home boarding service but I'm wanting children in a few years so will not be running the home boarding so will definitely do more research into not vaccinating.

Again with flea and worm treatment, I have read a lot about natural treatments and have been very interested in it as opposed to squirting chemicals on my dog each month. Again, it's a hard subject with the home boarding as the council asks to see my flea/worming records (mostly the stickers on the Calandar when he's been treated) so unsure whether I would be allowed to treat with something other than the normal vet recommended spot on treatments. Does anyone naturally flea and worm their dog?

@Kerrie74 try and find out to see if you have a raw dog food supplies shop locally to you. They have so much knowledge and could tell you whether they think that it would help your dogs arthritis as I'm not too sure myself. Or maybe google it? As to feeding alongside normal dog food, I personally wouldn't recommend it as dog food and raw food take different times to digest- the dog will digest the raw food faster and if the dog is eating the normal food too, it could prevent the raw from digesting fast enough and could cause food poisoning.

To remain healthy, you need to get the balance right. They need the right amounts of meat, bone and offal each day. I don't actually go to the butchers and buy my dogs food as I want to ensure that I am giving the right amount of everything he needs (although people do). I buy complete raw meals called 'nutriment' so he just needs to eat that raw food as doesn't need anything else. There's another brand called natures menu- that is raw food and it is in the freezers in pets at home so you can buy it there
 
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