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respitory infection-advice please

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bunny mad lisa

bunny mad lisa

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hi all
my piggy suffered a bladder stone a few months ago which sh is now over but this has now aused her to have contiual respitory infections which i have read is a common complication after surgery.
She is perfectly wll in herslef and eating well but is very wheezing but no discharge or sneezing. she has had a couple of courses of baytril which did clear it up only for it to come back, This is her third bout and he baytril hasn't worked this time so w change to septrin and she is getting 0.5ml. she has had that for the past 9 day and there is no improvement but she hasn't gort worse. Yestrday my vet decided to give her a short acting steroid but her breathing seems a tad worse now and certainly no improvement. I am to carry on with the septrin but wondered if there was anything better to try?
my vet did suggest cephalaxin injection?
any advice please!
 
You have to ask yourself if it actually a URTI - or an allergy or some other condition? I am waiting for the day when a post-mortem on one of these poor creatures reveals the cause of this mystery clicky/wheezy/grumbly and gradual weight-loss causing disease.

I'm totally flummoxed and syringe-feeding my little sow for reasons I can't fathom any longer - except that she has bright moments.

The problem is, as the breathing worsens, they eat less (because they can't eat and breathe and the breathing takes priority) and their teeth overgrow quite quickly. Then they can't eat for two reasons. Eating is second most vital to drinking and breathing so vicious circle.

I have tried Sudafed, Olbas Oil, Bisolvon, frusemide, Piriton, a complete management overhaul and dietary review and all have brought little or nothing in the change or imrovement. I am at my wits' end. Care to join me - I'm fed up and need some company!
 
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Hi Lisa,

My first thought is also allergy as the infections seem to keep coming back and not really clearing with antibiotics. What is she bedded on?

If you're still thinking it is an infection, then one other antibiotic you may like to discuss with your vet is Zithromax (azithromycin). A few people have had success with this drug for their pigs with severe respiratory infections/pneumonia although it is not an antibiotic I have used in my own pigs before.

I have/had a few grumbly-breathing piggies. One is my rex sow Pandora, she's a typical hayfever pig - slightly watery eyes and this grumbly sounding breathing. It is not constant, it is intermittent but occurs most days; it's only developed since the blossom came out on the trees and the windows have been open. She had no problems at all during the winter, and there are no other symptoms so it points to allergy. I am trying her on Piriton Syrup, 0.2ml twice daily, in the hope it will prevent the symptoms affecting her.

My other grumbly-breathing sow has stopped since a diagnosis and ongoing treatment for a heart defect, she still has on-off issues as her dose needs slightly increasing, but importantly there has been no "hooting" (grumbly/raspy sounding breathing). ''Hooting'' and recurrent 'respiratory infections' can sometimes be a sign of heart problems.
 
thanks laura!
she is indoors and i use carefresh and dust free hay. I do also give her redigrass and orchard grass hays to eat. I wondered about using paper bedding and fleece to see if that helped?
my main concerns is that if we stop the antibiotics she will get worse..she has no other symptoms other that the sound on her lungs and through her nose. If it was her heart would she show other signs? and how would my vet tell? i don't really want to do anything that means she has to have another anisthetic.
 
I'm afraid I can't really help but wanted to wish you well. Hope your little one improves soon.

I'd be inclined to try changing to fleece, with towels underneath - I figure it can't really hurt. Have you tried shaking out the hay (in a cardboard box or something) before giving it to her? Even dust-extracted ones will still probably have some kind of dust which may cause irritation. It may well be that these measures have no effect at all but I'd at least give it a go if I were you.

Btw I love your cute avatar. Is that the poorly piggy you're referring to?

Good luck x
 
I agree with Missy, it won't hurt to try fleece; it could be that the CareFresh is just too dusty for her. Shaking out the hay is also a good point, Dust Free Hay is the best I have found for dust-extracted hays - almost all tend to have some dust sitting on them but Dust Free is one of the better ones.

I can tell you what I would do personally if I was in this situation with my pig, regarding whether to take the pig of antibiotics. I would withdraw ABs for 1-2 days. If there is no change, keep the pig off ABs for another 1-2 days to be sure there is no change. If the pig gets worse, put the pig right back on ABs as it's obviously holding something off.

From what you have said, I would suspect that there will be no change when taken off ABs - this is going on the symptoms you have described, the fact there are no other signs of respiratory infection and also based on the same noises my own pigs have made. I may be wrong, hence only withdrawing ABs for 1-2 days and seeing how things go. Discuss with your vet of course, but this is what I would do with my own pig, and it's what I recommend to you at the moment.

Heart pigs tend to display a selection of symptoms that are almost always put down to something else; only when lots of symptoms are suddenly seen as being linked can it be traced back to the heart. I am guilty of this in the past, I suspected in the back of my mind for quite a long time that my Gwen was a heart pig, various symptoms developed and still I put it down to her character or her age - quiet, inactive, weight loss, "deeper" breathing, slightly paler skin - or put down to milder medical conditions like allergies (one symptom was "hooting" and rocking back and forth while hunched on her feet, as she breathed). As soon as she developed multiple red/sore feet, my instinct kicked in and pushed that heart pig thought, that had been lurking somewhere distant, right to the forefront. Lo and behold, her condition was advanced enough that via stethoscope it was clear she had fluid build up around her heart (pericarditis) and thus we started diuretic treatment and she quickly moved onto heart meds when the fluid continued to build/symptoms did not ease despite daily diuretics.

Some of the symptoms can be seen here:
http://www.guinealynx.info/heart.html#signs

Diagnosis is not often easy, if the symptoms are convincing enough the vet will typically listen with a stethoscope initially, and follow up with a chest xray (no anesthetic needed). ECG is another diagnostic tool, but not one that is used frequently - mainly down to lack of knowledge or experience on the vets part of dealing with heart pigs. I strongly suspect it's simply not recognised often enough.

Gwen has not been diagnosed with a specific heart condition. I don't know exactly why her heart is not 'right', but her symptoms and the lack of a strong enough response to diuretics (i.e. the fluid kept building up despite the diuretics, and the symptoms remained) points to the heart. It was convincing enough that a trial of heart medication was a feasible idea. She started on heart meds (benazepril) on 6 March and the turnaround has been quite something. Turns out she didn't quieten and mellow because of age, it was the tiredness that the heart condition brought on that forced her to withdraw so much.
 
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Laura-CCC4 said:
.........(one symptom was "hooting" and rocking back and forth while hunched on her feet, as she breathed)....
Click to expand...

Laura, Is rocking back and forth (on it's own) indicative of heart problems? Or any other conditions, for that matter? Just wondering as I've noticed my pig slightly rocking back and forth occasionally, but no hooting. This is the first time I've noticed rocking mentioned (and never thought to ask about it before) but it sounds like what you've described so now I'm worried! Did Gwen do that often?

Sorry to hijack your thread, Lisa!
 
It's not a symptom that's been noted much from what I can tell, but it was a big part of Gwen's condition. The slight back and forth movement when breathing can be described as pretty normal, it is when they are hunched on their feet and won't lay down and rocking back and forth that it is more concerning for conditions such as heart problems. Poor Gwen would sleep like this, her head slowly dropping until her nose was on the floor while she stayed on her feet; not nice to see her like that!

Gwen is a lot more comfortable and doesn't do this much any more, she does still do it but the dosage of her heart meds need adjusting - what she is on at the moment is keeping her pretty stable, but not quite enough to knock the symptoms on the head for good.

Any condition involving the breathing - even something like bloat, due to the pressure placed on the body by the bloat - can lead to the rocking as the pig breathes and the hunched position.

I wouldn't say that every pig who does this has a heart problem, but as I said does not appear to be a commonly noted symptom.
I would say that if it is the only symptom indicative of heart problems, it's quite unlikely to be a heart problem.
 
Thanks for clarifying, Laura. I'll bear this in mind and watch out for any other 'heart' symptoms. What you and Gwen have been through sounds truly awful but I'm glad you've had a diagnosis now and found a way to manage the condition so that her symptoms are, at least, greatly improved.

Lisa (and threelittlepiggies), really hope you find something which helps your poorly piggy.
 
Agree with most of what Laura has said apart from one point (based upon personal experience of 7 pigs). Withdrawal of the antibioitic MAY appear to worsen the breathing but that doesn;t mean it is an infection causing it. It may be that an infection is a consequential occurrence to the breathing problem.

Suggest you start diuretic treatment whilst still giving the anitbiotic - intitally fruseamide 10mg/kg high dose for a max of couple of days, bringing it down to 4mg/kg daily for a week and, once antibioitic course finished, then reducing to 2mg/kg.Make sure piggie is kept hydrated (first couple of days they may need sub-cutaneous fluids). (Keep on the septrin for up to a total of 3 weeks but if after the next few days combined with fruseamide there is no change then change to azithormycin) If as Laura says, the diuretic doesn't completely sort it (esepecially once antibiotiics finished), then heart investigations/meds may be necessary. Does your piggie have bluish lips/ears or swollen front paws?

One other thing that can help - I put a piece of kitchen paper in a plastic container and put olbas oil and Vicks vapour bubble bath on it before adding hot water. I put a towel over the plastic container by my side on the sofa and let the pigie sittingon my lap inhale the steam from under the towel for approx 2 minute intervals for about 10 mins.

One other possibility (which I haven;t tried yet but has been recommended by my vet) - use a nebuliser with F10 disinfectant:saline (1:250); 15ml twice a day. Sounds simple but it's a bit scarey so if your vet is interested in this option please PM me and I will talk with them or give them my own vet's details for a conflab.

HTH
x
 
thanks everyone for your help..i really appreciate it.
The piggy in the avatar is Fozzie he isn't the poorly one but is patiently waiting to meet his new friend Squiggle who is the poorly one! I got fozzie to keep her company as she lost her partner last year. They haven't even met yet as fozzie got castrated just a few weeks ago. I am concerned about causing her stress introducing them and him catching anything! so i am waiting to i get this under control.

I decided it was worth changing her cage conditions to at least rule out an allergy. So today I have put her on newspaper and fleece with dust free hay in her bed. I have also given the bedroom where her cage is a very good clean to try and remove dust etc. So i will see if there are any changes over the next few days....or will it take longer?

i am due back monday for a check up so will talk to my vet about withdrawing meds and possible heart problems. He said her lungs sounded very rough and if i press my ear to her back i can hear her breathing quite loudly and it is fast. I can also hear her much of the time although it's not extremely loud.

its so fustrating as she is perfectly well in herself but i am scared that if we don't treat her she will become a very poorly girl.
 
Awww..Fozzie & Squiggle are cute names. I would also wait a while before introducing them, until things settle a bit, but hopefully they'll meet up before too long.

I'm pleased that you've changed to fleece. Hopefully you'll find it works well for you both. Just wondering, do you have anything else under the fleece or just newspaper? If not, I'd pop an old towel or two under there as well, for extra absorbency. Some people just use towels under fleece (like me) whereas others prefer to put newspaper down first, then towel and then fleece on top.

I have no experience of heart pigs so can't comment on that but wish you the best of luck. She's lucky that you spotted her problems and started treatment before she wasn't well in herself, at least giving her the best chance possible x
 
thanks missy.
I put a some puppy pads under the paper to absorb. i had some left over from when i had a poorly rabbit and they worked a treat.

i really do hope they get to meet. I got Fozzie and Daisyback in january to make a trio with squiggle. but sadly dasiy passed away a few weeks ago before they got to meet..she died of shock at the vets. My vets thinks she had an underlying problem although seemed very healthy, It broke my heart so i really want to do my best for squiggle.
 
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