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Self Barbering

I’d avoided too much commentary @Janey as your posts about Maisie had opened up a raw spot for me.

My own beloved Connie had numerous issues similar to your Maisie. She was the under sow. She self bartered her hind legs, had breathing difficulties, etc. I had a fabulous exotics Vet who was hugely supportive but it was difficult to get to the bottom of the problem. I had all manner of tests carried out. I bought a nebuliser and I nebulised her at home. Found she had ovarian cysts and had her spayed. Sadly despite everything we did she must have had some underlying problem that veterinary science couldn’t find or solve. Possibly lymphoma. You can find her threads by searching for her name. I can’t bear to re-read them at the moment. She is still the piggy most deeply engrained in my heart.

Oh @VickiA I'm so terribly sorry. That's uncanny the similarities between them. Sending big hugs to you xx
 
Oh @VickiA I'm so terribly sorry. That's uncanny the similarities between them. Sending big hugs to you xx

I can talk calmly, semi intelligently and unemotionally about almost any piggy issue but when it comes to my beloved girl it’s still raw even after all this time. She was very special, perhaps even more special because of her problems. I do hope that after talking with Ellie you can make some more progress and a plan for the way forward. Sometimes vets just don’t share all their thinking process with us unless we ask.
You are doing great with Maisie, just hang in there xx
 
Yes Maisie does have ovarian cysts, but no abdominal hair loss. At the moment Ellie the vet thinks they are about 1cm diameter but not really growing. Maisie did have a heart and lung scan the other week because of her purple feet, because Ellie thought that it might be a heart / circulation problem but it turns out her heart is actually fine, although her breathing is still laboured.

The Pet Remedy is a natural/herbal treatment that comes in various forms - plug ins / spray diffusers etc and it's a stress reliever, rather like Bach Flower Remedies. Thanks for the tip about lavender, I had no idea about that, so I'll do some googling. Thank you for the support and info.

My Ellie (Guinea pig) had no significant text book ovarian cyst symptoms (crusty nipples, major hormonal behaviour, any form of hair loss, etc) but she did keep getting Urinary Tract Infections (& bad bleeding with weeing and/or pooping). The bleeding would stop with Baytril then start again a week or so after it was finished.
The vet wanted to investigate further so decided on the ultrasound, this was when she found Ellie's (approx 2.5cm) ovarian cyst. Due to her being 6yrs old ,the vet said it would just be palliative care as a spay was the only option, but she wouldn't operate on a guinea of that age it would be too risky.
I suggested the Chorulon hormone injections, which luckily she was prepared to research too. Ellie responded well to the injections (2x) then approx 1 year later she had another 2x injections as the lump/cyst had grown back. i lost Ellie 2yrs later at the age of 8, through multiple health issues, but she only bled once after the injections &no other UTI's.

That's great that your girly's been checked for heart & lung issues with no problems :)

Ask about the nebuliser again, give it a try if there is no detrimental reason for you not to. It would be far less stressful using a nebuliser box than a mask. putting her in a box/container with a load of food she can stuff & still get medication, has got to be less stressful than a tight fitting, restrictive mask over her face with lots of awkward man-handling to get it there.
maybe even try a bowl of hot water with steam in the same room or put olbas oil on a cloth (out of reach of the guineas) to see if that eases her breathing?

If the cyst is only 1 cm it may be growing or at the start of a painful growth spurt. perhaps try some loxicom again - ask about a short-term, but high dose to see if it has any effect, at least that way you may be able to rule out pain issues?
Ask about the possibility of hormone injections for her, the only side effect seems to be that it just doesn't work, but i couldn't find anything else against them otherwise. If her hormones are all over the place she may need something to stabilise them.

not sure if it was this post or your other one, that someone suggested Frusimide as a diuretic, ask the vet if you could also trial a short, low dose of this, to see if it is of any benefit to her breathing?
(i wouldn't try all possibilities at once, you wont find out which was the trigger to her issues)

I'm guessing you've tried different bedding types to see if there's any difference to her breathing? dusty or wood based bedding can make guineas have respiratory issues sometimes, any detergent changes or fragrances/perfumes used around the home can also trigger problems.

My girly, Orca who's around 4yrs & her late sister Dopple, always sounded very nasal'y when they were very relaxed or very stressed, they both seemed very healthy otherwise, no other issues present. the vet seemed to think it may be damage to their nasal passage or lungs, due to being exposed to wild rabbits/bordatella when they were young (before i had them). Grace who's around 5yrs has no similar issues & she shares the same cage.

I guess what i'm trying to say is - suggest anything to your vet you think will help, she may be able to research any suggestions you give further. I had Ellie for another 2 happy yrs because of my suggestion, after being told palliative care was the only option available.

Good luck for a solution soon &fingers crossed for a speedy recovery :nod:
luv the Girls & I.xx
xx
 
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Wow @GPTV thanks for all that - I'll have to make notes to take in with me as my little brain won't remember it all! I'm in total agreement about the nebuliser vs the mask, but will have to see what the vet says. I have spoken with her before about draining cysts and do know she's not in favour of that and would prefer to spay where possible. She feels there's a greater risk of something going wrong with a draining (puncturing other organs) coupled with the belief it isn't as effective.

Maisie's breathing doesn't seem to ever change greatly - it sometimes seems a bit less laboured, but I've never heard any noises at all. Since coming to me last May, they've been on different kinds of shavings, hemp and now fleece. I've just started using a non-bio form of Persil - used to use the bio version, but only found out recently that non-bio is preferred.

I've also never heard of Frusimide before - how does it help breathing issues?
 
sorry it was late - i have given you the wrong spelling - its 'furosemide' basically its a diuretic that stops fluid retention, if it sounds like a fluid'y crackle when she breathes it may due to excess fluid in her system- its often given when the heart or lungs are affected & also to get rid of excess fluid in 'fluid bloat' cases.

I think it would be one of the later things i'd try in your case, as she has had a clean bill of health for her heart & lungs.

Ellie my heart piggy had it prescribed as her heart couldn't disperse/pump the fluid through her system properly & it would build up, causing crackley breathing, but see what your vet thinks to trialing a very short term (few days), low dose to see if it makes any difference? especially as its laboured breathing as opposed to crackly. Although, she shouldn't be on it for long if not needed as it affects kidney function/blood pressure (if i remember rightly from my Ellie)?

with Ellies cyst the vet wouldn't drain it without full anaesthetic, so she said it was the same kind of risk as a spay for her due to her old age (but my vet isn't an exotics vet or specialised in guinea surgery (apart from mine i think!) that's why we settled for the hormone injections - to reduce complications in surgery for her age.

has the change in bedding or washing powder made any difference to her breathing?

Good luck
xx
 
Thank you! No I haven't noticed any change in her breathing really - not with the bedding changes anyway. I occasionally notice it looks less laboured, but it seems to be only a temporary thing - maybe when she's really relaxed or sleeping (with her eyes open) possibly? I've got the appointment with Ellie tomorrow afternoon, and I'm wondering from what you've said about the Furosemide, that might have been the medication route Ellie was thinking of if there proved to be some fluid around her heart, but not enough to drain off. As it turned out, there was no fluid anyway.

So the only difference in terms of risk for a piggy undergoing a draining vs full spay is the puncture possibility then? The actual spay procedure doesn't pose any more risk (as the piggy still has to have the same amount of anaesthetic)? If that makes sense?!

Also what I have noticed since they've been separated is Maisie's weight is improving slightly. It's been gradually dropping over the last few months, but has gone from 866g on Friday to 910g today. Hmmm, interesting. Alice does eat faster than Maisie and just wondering now if that's the reason for her weight loss? There are 2 hay trays and 2 bowls with their pellets in to try and address this though. xx
 
Sorry just checking back - forgot to ask you what Loxicom is. Is that another name for Metacam?
 
Just got back from the vets. She thinks I should keep them separated for at least a month as the barbering could well have become habitual. Also as the cage is only divided, the fact that Maisie can still see/smell/hear Alice might possibly be causing her some stress still - that's if it is Alice that's causing her stress and to barber. I asked the vet if she thought it might be arthritis in Maisie's foot/feet and she agreed it could be, but I didn't push for scans/x-rays and maybe I should have done. We're going to try her with 0.4ml of Metacam, twice daily for a week to see if that makes a difference.
 
We also discussed the ovarian cysts - the vet explained there were 2 different types and that she felt Maisie's was the non-hormonal sort. She felt that the Chorulon injections wouldn't be of any benefit. For info, she also mentioned that she had trialled the Chorulon injections and only had a 50% success rate with them - not sure if that's because 50% happened to be non-hormonal cysts though. They are also quite expensive at £56 each. We discussed the possibility of the cysts growing but the vet has concerns about doing a spay, because of Maisie's breathing issues coupled with that fact, she is already about 4 years old. She doesn't think the cysts are causing a problem at the moment.
 
My vets is a large rural practice, that i don't think sees very high numbers of guineas, there are 2 or 3 vets that i ask for which are genuinely interested in the guineas (the main one i ask for has some of his own :D)
After Ellie's issues the vet i was seeing at the time thanked me for taking her in, as they don't see that many & it reignited her interest in guineas. but i think she was at the starting point of "complicated so not worth the risk pet" & not prepared to operate on her because of her limited experience on treating guineas & the heightened risks because of this.

however my main vet now, has successfully treated Graces facial abscess with surgery & general anaesthetic, also she had a big bladder stone removed by a different vet with GA about a year ago.
i seem to remember that quite a few posts on here concerning cysts members had them drained first & then either injections or spay.

Grace was 5yrs with GA & pulled through abscess surgery remarkably, but it will depend on the experience of your vet & how much you trust their judgement on which procedure you feel she should have. I'd say a full spay is riskier than a drain, but if its successful then you won't ever have to worry about further surgery for it, the drained cysts,however could re fill &be a recurring problem, as well as the risk of puncture damage?

Yes Metacam is loxicom - a anti inflammatory pain killer (comes in dog & cat strengths)

Ellie was lucky & the injections were very successful for her & lasted approx 12 months each round(2x injections)
I know my vets are very cheap/reasonably priced but each vial of Chorulon was about £20,(plus consultation fee for first injection, but second injection was a free follow up appointment i think?) although i have read of some being £60'ish.

definitely try the separation of them first, see if it helps & also the metacam should ease any arthritis pain if that's a part of it too.

Good luck & healing vibes :luv:
xx
 
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Thank you @GPTV! I will carry on with the separation and see how it goes. I can't remember now how old my Phoebe was when she had surgery (she's the one in my avatar), but think she was about 4 and came through it fine. My vet's concern with Maisie is the added complication of her breathing issues, so I guess I'm just hoping that the cysts don't cause her any more problems, as my vet isn't keen on draining the cysts for the reasons you mention. I'm going to start with the metacam in the morning, as I need to speak to the vets regarding some new medication they prescribed for her breathing, as it's been pointed out to me that it could cause convulsions. Just don't want to take the risk with that as it's the first time my vet has prescribed it for a piggy. She is cavvy savvy though and I would definitely trust her judgement regarding any future surgery.

Thanks for your input, really appreciate it :nod: xx
 
Connie was also 4 at the time of her problems similar to Maisie. She had a laparoscopic spay (2 small incisions one on each side & removal of ovaries). She sailed through the procedure. My exotics Vet didn’t recommend draining the cysts or trying the injections in her case.
 
have you had her checked for ovarian cysts?
try discussing with your vet if she can have an ultrasound to rule them out, my Ellie had them & she had the HCG Chorulon injections, i didn't realise that she had become quite as subdued as she was until the hormones kicked in & improved her personality generally!
Hair loss can be associated with ovarian cysts, but it's generally along both sides/belly area.

Ovarian cysts can be painful, especially when smaller & growing - this could fit in with the pain issue of barbering.
Also if the ovarian cysts are growing or large, they may be filling up space & squashing her other organs into each other, there's a possibility the lungs & heart are being restricted, so not letting them work to their full potential?
If the heart isn't at 100% this could cause the build up of fluid & circulation difficulties. (did i see she had a blue tinge to her foot on one of your other posts? or have i got confused with somebody elses thread?)
Is 'Pet Remedy' a hormone/pheromone treatment? it might be worth seeing if she'll eat a stalk of lavender a day, thats meant to have calming, de-stressing, anti-inflammatory, itch relief & depression busting qualities (think i've seen it has anti fungal qualities too, but not sure).

i think the only Guinea that i have ever had barber, was one of two sisters suddenly barbered the other ones neck/chin area, this was when we discovered she had a lymphoma - I'm convinced she barbered it to expose the lump & show me there was a problem that needed sorting! Naww bless.

as the others have said - arthritis could be a possibility & she's barbering herself to ease the pain too.

Good luck with a diagnosis & hope something can be sorted soon.
Healing vibes, speedy recovery & a big hug for you too - keep your chin up you're doing well. :nod:
xx
Hi I was reading your reply and noticed you got the injections for your piggie. I have a piggie who got sick about a month and a half ago. Had her xrayed and they said it was pneumonia. She recovered from that after a long time on antibiotics and lots of care. But she also has some scabbing on her feet and the vet noticed a mass in her right side during examination at our last follow up visit. She dropped a ton of weight but eats like a true little piggie. Constantly! And acts starved when I give her salad and veggies. Her coat has become very ragged and she is missing tons of hair. Around her middle. But on her nose and behind her ears even on her legs. She doesn’t act like she is in pain. She is only 2 years old. Now that she is recovered from the pneumonia I just received the information about the hormone injections and wanted to know from someone that actually had first hand experience with them if they really truly helped. I don’t want to put her through more unwarranted stress if it is not going to help improve her condition. I feel like she’s been through so much :((
Thanks so much for reading
 
Hi I was reading your reply and noticed you got the injections for your piggie. I have a piggie who got sick about a month and a half ago. Had her xrayed and they said it was pneumonia. She recovered from that after a long time on antibiotics and lots of care. But she also has some scabbing on her feet and the vet noticed a mass in her right side during examination at our last follow up visit. She dropped a ton of weight but eats like a true little piggie. Constantly! And acts starved when I give her salad and veggies. Her coat has become very ragged and she is missing tons of hair. Around her middle. But on her nose and behind her ears even on her legs. She doesn’t act like she is in pain. She is only 2 years old. Now that she is recovered from the pneumonia I just received the information about the hormone injections and wanted to know from someone that actually had first hand experience with them if they really truly helped. I don’t want to put her through more unwarranted stress if it is not going to help improve her condition. I feel like she’s been through so much :((
Thanks so much for reading

Hi and welcome

Can you please start your own thread in order to avoid confusion and get the correct advice.

You start a thread by clicking on a the large 'post thread' button at the top on the right hand side when you go back to the section. Thank you!
Health & Illness

Please see your vet again promptly and step in with syringe feeding support as over 80% of the daily food intake is hay with vegetables around 10% and pellets only 5%. If your girl is not eating enough hay (which you can only control by weighing daily), then she will lose a lot of weight. Your care in this respect can make the difference between getting your girl through any necessary treatment or not. Please switch from weighing weekly to weighing daily at the same time and step in with syringe feeding your girl NOW. Cut off the tip of the syringe you should still have when feeding mushed up pellets.
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Stopping to eat hay and major weight loss can be a sign of pain.

We can only guess as much as you about the problem; it requires a thorough hands-on examination by a vet and if necessary a scan. We can help you with the care side, but cannot diagnose safely (nor are we qualified to) replace a vet examination. Ovarian cysts are only one possibility; I am not quite convinced that you have got the right diagnosis.
You can only make an educated decision once you know what you are up against, but unless it is a matter of a make or break emergency operation you always have the right to think over your options at home before you commit.
 
Hi I was reading your reply and noticed you got the injections for your piggie. I have a piggie who got sick about a month and a half ago. Had her xrayed and they said it was pneumonia. She recovered from that after a long time on antibiotics and lots of care. But she also has some scabbing on her feet and the vet noticed a mass in her right side during examination at our last follow up visit. She dropped a ton of weight but eats like a true little piggie. Constantly! And acts starved when I give her salad and veggies. Her coat has become very ragged and she is missing tons of hair. Around her middle. But on her nose and behind her ears even on her legs. She doesn’t act like she is in pain. She is only 2 years old. Now that she is recovered from the pneumonia I just received the information about the hormone injections and wanted to know from someone that actually had first hand experience with them if they really truly helped. I don’t want to put her through more unwarranted stress if it is not going to help improve her condition. I feel like she’s been through so much :((
Thanks so much for reading

Hi there
Welcome to the forum :nod: as Wiebke suggested if you start a thread of your own it should help you get some more answers tailored to your guinea pig & hopefully sort her situation quicker :))

if she is definitely clear of fungal & mites, (they can also cause hair loss). Afraid i cant remember which side Ellie's lump was, but it was approx 2.5cm. The HCG Chorulon injections helped to stop the recurring UTI's & heavy bleeding that Ellie suffered with, she had one more genital bleed after the injections, but never any more.
Ellies lump could be felt on her side, when i knew it was there, but i hadn't noticed it before the ultrasound scan as it was hidden quite well! within a couple of days Ellies coat became silky smooth & i hadn't realised how coarse feeling it had got prior to the injections.
the lump reduced within a few weeks to not being able to feel it.
Ellie had another batch of 2 injections (they were 7-10 days apart) each injection cost approx £20 plus the consultation fee (although my vets are very reasonably priced & not an exotics vet, but a large rural practice (the Chorulon injections are a cattle hormone & not licensed for use on Guineas, so you may have to sign a disclaimer).

Ellie did shriek like a diva at each injection (in her back leg/rump area) but i took a handful of grass or herbs in & she soon forgave us when she was stuffing her face 5 seconds after the injection!

Ellie was 6 when she had the injections & the vet considered her too old for a spay & the risks were too high, the injections were a less invasive alternative to a spay. although i know there are a few members who have had elderly sows spayed with no issues (partly due to the experience/competence of the vet)

all the info i could find was that the injections either worked... or they didn't! they don't seem to have any negative side effects recorded anywhere other than they just may not work.

@Carmend71 good luck & let us know how you get on. xx
 
Update: Maisie's self barbering is getting worse. We are visiting the vets again on Monday, as she's also off her food, so I'm topping her up with pellets and critical care; I will speak with the vet about the barbering again as I've read on here that it could also be down to depression (she is a very static piggy). I'm so worried that if it is stress/depression, the only option I have is to surrender Alice to a rescue and in return have Maisie pick out her own choice of companion. However I really don't want to do this, as I love Alice too and it's taken her so long to come out her shell and start being the happy piggy she is, that the thought of surrendering her and putting her through another change of home is quite upsetting.
 
I'll be sure to update you all tomorrow and let you know whether the vet thinks we're at the end of the road with Maisie, or if I'll have to surrender Alice and find another companion for Maisie. It would have been nice to know what other peoples' thoughts were.
 
Huge hugs Janey. You are clearly not having an easy time with the girls. I don't have experience of this so can't really give you any thoughts but wanted to send my well wishes in hopes that it all works out
 
Thank you so much Kelly, it's really appreciated. I'm just lost as to what to do for the best as Maisie is about 5ish and Alice is about 2ish. It's not good for Maisie if it is stress/depression causing her to barber - even if she only lives for another 6 months or so ...
 
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