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So Sad About The Gorilla

Discussion in 'World News' started by Stayc1989, Jun 1, 2016.

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  1. Stayc1989

    Stayc1989 Teenage Guinea Pig

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    I think it's so sad that the gorilla who's enclosure the little boy got into has been shot. Yet another death of a precious animal because the enclosures should have been better protected to stop anything getting in or out. It was only last week that I read about the lions being shot at a zoo because a suicidal man climbed into their cage so they'd kill him! I can't believe there is no better security in zoos :(
     
  2. Beans&Toast

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    Yeah I was absolutely disgusted by that. The parents and zoo should be heavily fined. That little boy didn't just manage to fall in, he managed to get past several gates/obstacles before he got in, that poor animal died due to negligence. The zoo and the parents are getting absolutely slated for for happened, many animal experts have came out and said the behaviour that gorilla was showing was not agressive at all. It's just so tragic, that beautiful gorilla did nothing wrong.
     
    #2 Beans&Toast, Jun 1, 2016 at 10:05 AM
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  3. Tigermoth

    Tigermoth Teenage Guinea Pig

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    It certainly seems that zoos need to reconsider the configuration of their exhibits. It should not be possible for people to get in without being apprehended first. Reports seem to suggest that the child managed to get through pretty quickly.

    I think the zoo were damned whatever they did in terms of their response. A gorilla may or may not be being aggressive in that moment. Firstly that can change quickly, especially with a fuss happening around them. Secondly, even a gorilla being "kind" might be deadly to a small child! But if they had waited and the child had suffered serious harm or had been killed then they would have been slated for not having acted.

    And in terms of the parents. I'd be wary of judging if I wasn't there and didn't see. I remember vividly when my son was about 27 months. My other son was about 3 months old. We were at a NT house and walking with friends. I had my little one in a sling and my toddler was holding my hand. And then he took his hand away. No problem. I looked down to see him sprinting as fast as his little legs would go, down a slope. Toward a trout pond. I ran as fast as I could but my baby in the sling meant I couldn't see my feet, he was bouncing about and I couldn't run as fast as I wanted/needed. My friends spotted what was happening, they also began to run but he had a headstart by then. He covered probably about 75m and reached the water first. And disappeared over the side. A second or two later one of my friends got there and pulled him out. His trousers had caught on a metal sign and he was hanging by one leg over the water. It all happened so fast. One moment he had my hand, the next he could have drowned. I wasn't being negligent. I shouldn't have been fined. The time it took for me to register that he was on the run was long enough for him to have a head start I couldn't catch in the circumstances. And it didn't cross my mind with the pond a significant distance away across the lawn that I should have been clinging onto him at that point (nearer the pond and the river they still have to hold my hand and the kids are 10 and 8 now!)
     
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  4. Beans&Toast

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    Yes but being a significant distance away from a pond and being right up close to a gorilla enclosure are two very different things. I wouldn't be clinging on to my child in the first example, but several feet from a gorilla I wouldn't have taken my eyes off them. That animal died due to negligence, whether the enclosure was too easy to get into, which I doubt as that zoo has been open for over 30 years and this has never happened, or the parents weren't keeping a close enough watch on their child, but either way both the little boy and the gorillas safety were seriously compromised and there's no excuse for it.
     
  5. annaa

    annaa Junior Guinea Pig

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    What Tigermoth said - I also remember how quickly my son could disappear from my side, and seemingly vanish. I remember him disappearing in the supermarket aged about 3, I bent down to pick something up, look round and he'd gone. I assumed he had gone back to the toy aisle and calmly headed back there, no where to be seen. I had several members of staff running around the store with me for about 10 minutes before he was finally located.
    The Zoo is solely responsible for this, there is no way a 4 year old should have been able to get where he did.
    Once he was in the enclosure and the gorilla had him, I can't see how else the zoo was going to safely extract the child. Gorillas are dangerous animals - zoo keepers do not go in cages with them. He couldn't be tranquilised as it takes time to work and the risk that he would harm the child would be too high. There are experts who read the gorilla's behaviour differently and said he was reacting in a display manner (probably due to all the screams) - where gorilla's will usually drag and throw things around to display there strength. Could they risk him doing that to a 4 year old?
    A horrible tragic incident, that ended in the death of a beautiful animal and a probably majorly traumatised child. The Zoo must take full responsibility for this as it failed to ensure the safety of both its visitors and it's animals.
     
  6. Beans&Toast

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    I have plenty of experience of how quick children can vanish or get away from you despite being right next to them.
    But it seems a very different case given this wasn't just out and about or in a supermarket, this was right next to a gorilla enclosure, an animal that is 10 times stronger than the average adult. I personally don't think it's acceptable to say that he just got away. By law the zoo must meet certain safety requirements in regards to how safe their enclosures are, to avoid these things happening, so how long was this child unsupervised for this to happen? I'd expect a zoo to have adequate measures in place to protect both the people and the animals, but I'd still have my child very firmly in my grip if I was several feet from gorillas as theres always that small chance something could happen. I really do feel like this poor animal has been seriously let down, and I don't think it's fair to chalk it up to just a tragic accident, it should never have happened and it's just so sad.
     
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  7. Tigermoth

    Tigermoth Teenage Guinea Pig

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    My @Beans&Toast wasn't about the distance. It was about the speed. The enclosure should not have been accessible to a child that had an empty zoo and a morning to plan and climb in, let alone get in in that moment whilst surrounded by visitors, including his parents, because let's face it, there were other people around that could/should/might have seen and acted too, but in the frozen moment of "is that what I think it is, oh ****, it is..." he'd gone.

    It's a tragedy, but the right lessons need to be learned. And that to me doesn't include vilifying the parents. Nor the poor zookeeper that had to make that terrible decision (and what a hero, he was probably shaking like a leaf inside whilst he tried not to shoot the child, can you imagine those headlines?) but the planners, the ones that didn't put themselves in the shoes of a small person. I was at a safety day the other day talking about fire. It was interesting when they spoke about an area that had a great fire escape plan on paper. One day some one decided to have a proper drill, with people pretending to be unwell. Turned out their plan wasn't worth the paper it was written on because of factors surrounding the building. They modified it and now have a plan that works. But until they put themselves in the position they couldn't see real the problems beyond their fantastic theoretical plan. I wonder if when they design these things, does anyone get down on their hands and knees and look from the viewpoint of a toddler? You are supposed to do it to kid-proof your home, do they do it in public spaces? I wonder.

    I'm also going to put my hand up and say that I have been to zoosetc and not held my child's hand despite the animals being very close. I trusted that the zoo had the appropriate kind of enclosure to mean that I didn't need to. I might rethink that now.
     
  8. annaa

    annaa Junior Guinea Pig

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    But you expect the enclosures to be safe - to keep you at a safe distance from the animals. Would you really have a tight grip on your child's hand just because you were standing next to an enclosure with a moat that separates you physically from the animal in question (not like them being behind bars that children can an will put their fingers through)
     
  9. Beans&Toast

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    Personally I would. But that's not to say other people are bad parents if they didn't. But for me, no matter how safe the enclosure was, I'd still never assume that nothing can go wrong, there's always that small chance especially with small children who can be gone in a second. I just feel it's not acceptable that nothing comes of this. The enclosure may need to be even safer, but I feel the parents need to take responsibility too.
     
  10. Tigermoth

    Tigermoth Teenage Guinea Pig

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    I think watching their child get dragged through a moat by a gorilla and then see someone shoot it in front of their eyes and then the judgement of people that weren't there all around the world is probably punishment enough though. Don't you?
     
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  11. annaa

    annaa Junior Guinea Pig

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    And I didn't "chalk it up as a tragic accident" - but it is tragic, and should have been avoidable.
    The fact that a 4 year old did get through means the area around the enclosure was not fit for purpose. It doesn't matter how long a child is left unattended if the fence/wall/barrier whatever is too high for them to climb. There should have been no physical way that he could have got there.
     
  12. Stayc1989

    Stayc1989 Teenage Guinea Pig

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    Yes I also agree that the parents and zoo put the little boy and the gorilla in danger and someone should have to face the consequences of his death. Anything could have happened to that little boy it could have been much worse than climbing into a gorilla cage he could have been kidnapped or anything else. The security at this zoo should meet safety requirements,They are dangerous animals so should have been in a safe enclosure where no one could get in or out. It's outrageous that he actually got in! The same as the guy who went in with the lions and then they were shot. I think this guy should have to face the consequences of the lions death. He should be put in prison for what he did. Fair enough he was suicidal but obviously the zoo would see his life more worthy of saving than the lions so shot them! So thanks to this idiot 2 beautiful lions have died. So zoos need to step up their security because it's getting worse and there are some people out there that crave attention that could possibly climb into an animals enclosure just to get on the news and the poor animal will end up dead. It's so sad
     
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  13. annaa

    annaa Junior Guinea Pig

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    We've just accepted how easy it is to lose a child in the split second that they decide they want to run off and look at something else - what if the child had run back from looking at a less dangerous animal where you would be less inclined to keep a tight grip of their hand? You are scouring the zoo for them and the child is climbing into an enclosure.
    Zoos are family attractions and children get lost all the time. I just feel that the vilification and judging of the parents that has gone on is totally unfair - particularly when it could happen to any of us. Most of us just don't have children that are that desperate to get up close to the animals (or find that they are unable to do so because a properly designed enclosure should not allow it)
     
  14. Tigermoth

    Tigermoth Teenage Guinea Pig

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    Are we really saying that people that have a mental illness that drives them into a lion enclosure deserve prison? Is that really what I am reading? My word.
     
  15. annaa

    annaa Junior Guinea Pig

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    There was a lady who was attacked by a polar bear a few years ago when she climbed into their enclosure and swam over their pool to them. And another lady who was attacked by a male gorilla when she went into his enclosure - she had spent ages sitting in front of his cage staring at him, and thought they had a connection. I totally agree, the zoos have a responsibility to protect their animals against members of the public who do this.
     
  16. Stayc1989

    Stayc1989 Teenage Guinea Pig

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    He trespassed into the enclosure there fore should be prosecuted, I feel that it is very sad that it came to this situation but like I said there should be no way for people to get into the enclosures because things like this happen. And say they did actually kill him, no one would ever be able to go near them again so basically they were doomed from the moment he got in with them.
     
  17. Beans&Toast

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    @Tigermoth Personally, no I don't think it's punishment enough. This endangered animal had to die due to negligence. The zoo should not be solely responsible for this, a zoo is not a child's play area in which they should be able to run freely. I'd expect the zoo to have safe enclosures that meet legal requirements to keep both the visitors and animals safe, but I wouldn't take that to mean I could take my eyes of my child and expect they'll just be safe, as small children can get into anything or run faster than you can catch up with them, so I'd also be doing my part by making sure my child was next to me at all times given the circumstances.

    I don't think the parents should be vilified either, but some responsibly must be taken. This animal was shot dead and no one seems to be taking any kind of blame whatsoever. Did the zoo fail in making sure the enclosure wasn't safe enough? Did the parents not keep a close enough eye on their child? Either way I don't think this should be just one of those things that happened, some justice is needed, in my opinion.
     
    #17 Beans&Toast, Jun 1, 2016 at 12:01 PM
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
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  18. helen105281

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    Zoos shouldn't exist full stop.
     
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  19. Tigermoth

    Tigermoth Teenage Guinea Pig

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    You are right @Beans&Toast there needs to be some justice and accountability. The zoo had a duty of care to both visitors and animals and it failed both of them. I expect to be able to go the zoo and perhaps root about in my handbag for a handkerchief, tie my shoelace, or deal with one of the other kids and not find that my child has wriggled in to be with the animals whilst my back was turned. So I think we will have to agree to disagree on the parent side of things I'm afraid.
     
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  20. annaa

    annaa Junior Guinea Pig

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    I agree with @Tigermoth.
    For me the main responsibility for what happened MUST lie with the zoo, and they should be held accountable for it.
    With regards to the parents - there has not been enough information released about how he ended up on the wrong side of the enclosure. But the judgement that they were to blame because they weren't adequately watching their child for me is unjust. Had they done something stupid, like lift him over a fence/wall so they could take a photo of him in front of the gorillas - then yes, totally, they are responsible. But if he has shot off and wriggled through a hole somewhere/climbed a low fence in the second their backs were turned then no, I don't think they can be blamed. I just really hate the judging of people for something that could potentially happen to anyone.
     
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