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Spay or not?

Apples

New Born Pup
Joined
Sep 6, 2021
Messages
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Location
Netherlands
Here I am again, I just seem to be having bad luck lately with the guinea pigs and was wondering about any opinions from other piggy owners. It’s a long story because we have been seeing vets for over 2 years now, in short my thoughts are in the bullet points at the bottom of the post.

Bonkie (sow, teddy, turning 4 next month) started having a bald V-shaped spot on her back 2,5 years ago. She wasn’t itchy. We saw 2 local vets and the rescue, tried two different treatments for mites and 2 different treatments for fungal but nothing helped.

A change in diet seemed to help for half a year, but then the baldness returned around one year ago. We then saw our piggy-savvy vet that we had found in the meantime, but nothing was found so we agreed to do nothing for as long as she seemed an otherwise happy piggy.

Last fall she started slowly losing weight. Late October she had a very strong season, and a week later she started squealing when peeing. The vet suggested we start novacam to see what would happen, she then started leaving small piles of sludge after urinating but her weight stabilised. I made lots of videos around this time to keep track of Mara's recovery, and looking back I can see Bonkie's fur starting to regrow after starting the novacam when she happens to be in the frame.

Bonkie had an ultrasound early December, which showed healthy kidneys, a slightly thickened bladder wall, a tiny ovarian cyst and from what I understand a slightly opened uterus indicating an infection of the lining of the walls. We started antibiotics to treat the infection but Bonkie got very bloated from the antibiotics. She had to be admitted to the clinic three days in a row, and then I had to continue giving her metamotyl injections at home for two more days every 8 hours before switching to oral medication for another week.

We then started a course of fertagyl injections. There was a clear upturn after the second injection: she started gaining weight (from 885 then to 960 grams now a month later), her hair has regrown fully, she is more energetic, and the squeals when urinating have gotten much less frequent (only a few wees a week are now painful).

The vet suggested trying without the novacam after the third injection, which I tried for a few days. Those days she was less energetic, started biting her back and dropped in weight, so I started up the novacam again after 3 days.

I spoke to my vet this week, and she suggested a spay as the way forward. However, flank spaying is not common around here so she will make some calls next week to see where we can go for a flank spay.

However, now it’s the weekend I am starting to doubt this decision:
  • When she is on novacam she is a happy, energetic piggy. Still the leader of the group without a doubt, gaining weight, and only showing pain through a few squeaks a week (I counted 2 squeaks this week, their cage is right by the sofa on one side and the open-plan kitchen on the other so I can keep a very good eye on her)
  • Bonkie had a really bad reaction to the antibiotics
  • When she was bloated she had another injection other than metamotyl on two days as well, and she got very poorly precisely those nights. What if it was a reaction to that medicine?
  • The fertagyl course apparently has a success rate of around 80%, so again Bonkie is in the small group where things don’t go as they are supposed to.
  • If her body deals so badly with medicines, what will happen when she has to go under GA? And what if she needs antibiotics afterwards?
  • If we do go for the surgery, it will likely be a car drive of around 2 hours back home with a piggy who has just undergone surgery. Is this fair? Won’t she die feeling miserable on the way home?
  • Looking back the problems started 2,5 years ago already. Was she barbering because of a pain issue resulting in the baldness? If so, it is very slowly developing. Can’t we just continue with the novacam and would this possibly give her another year or so? By that time she will be a senior piggy and who knows what other health issues pop up by then.
  • If we do go for the surgery and she survives, she will be a senior piggy soon, so who knows what health issues will arise next. What if I put her through surgery only to have her die from something else a few months later?
In short: do you guys think it is fair to Bonkie to continue with novacam rather than surgery?
 
Here I am again, I just seem to be having bad luck lately with the guinea pigs and was wondering about any opinions from other piggy owners. It’s a long story because we have been seeing vets for over 2 years now, in short my thoughts are in the bullet points at the bottom of the post.

Bonkie (sow, teddy, turning 4 next month) started having a bald V-shaped spot on her back 2,5 years ago. She wasn’t itchy. We saw 2 local vets and the rescue, tried two different treatments for mites and 2 different treatments for fungal but nothing helped.

A change in diet seemed to help for half a year, but then the baldness returned around one year ago. We then saw our piggy-savvy vet that we had found in the meantime, but nothing was found so we agreed to do nothing for as long as she seemed an otherwise happy piggy.

Last fall she started slowly losing weight. Late October she had a very strong season, and a week later she started squealing when peeing. The vet suggested we start novacam to see what would happen, she then started leaving small piles of sludge after urinating but her weight stabilised. I made lots of videos around this time to keep track of Mara's recovery, and looking back I can see Bonkie's fur starting to regrow after starting the novacam when she happens to be in the frame.

Bonkie had an ultrasound early December, which showed healthy kidneys, a slightly thickened bladder wall, a tiny ovarian cyst and from what I understand a slightly opened uterus indicating an infection of the lining of the walls. We started antibiotics to treat the infection but Bonkie got very bloated from the antibiotics. She had to be admitted to the clinic three days in a row, and then I had to continue giving her metamotyl injections at home for two more days every 8 hours before switching to oral medication for another week.

We then started a course of fertagyl injections. There was a clear upturn after the second injection: she started gaining weight (from 885 then to 960 grams now a month later), her hair has regrown fully, she is more energetic, and the squeals when urinating have gotten much less frequent (only a few wees a week are now painful).

The vet suggested trying without the novacam after the third injection, which I tried for a few days. Those days she was less energetic, started biting her back and dropped in weight, so I started up the novacam again after 3 days.

I spoke to my vet this week, and she suggested a spay as the way forward. However, flank spaying is not common around here so she will make some calls next week to see where we can go for a flank spay.

However, now it’s the weekend I am starting to doubt this decision:
  • When she is on novacam she is a happy, energetic piggy. Still the leader of the group without a doubt, gaining weight, and only showing pain through a few squeaks a week (I counted 2 squeaks this week, their cage is right by the sofa on one side and the open-plan kitchen on the other so I can keep a very good eye on her)
  • Bonkie had a really bad reaction to the antibiotics
  • When she was bloated she had another injection other than metamotyl on two days as well, and she got very poorly precisely those nights. What if it was a reaction to that medicine?
  • The fertagyl course apparently has a success rate of around 80%, so again Bonkie is in the small group where things don’t go as they are supposed to.
  • If her body deals so badly with medicines, what will happen when she has to go under GA? And what if she needs antibiotics afterwards?
  • If we do go for the surgery, it will likely be a car drive of around 2 hours back home with a piggy who has just undergone surgery. Is this fair? Won’t she die feeling miserable on the way home?
  • Looking back the problems started 2,5 years ago already. Was she barbering because of a pain issue resulting in the baldness? If so, it is very slowly developing. Can’t we just continue with the novacam and would this possibly give her another year or so? By that time she will be a senior piggy and who knows what other health issues pop up by then.
  • If we do go for the surgery and she survives, she will be a senior piggy soon, so who knows what health issues will arise next. What if I put her through surgery only to have her die from something else a few months later?
In short: do you guys think it is fair to Bonkie to continue with novacam rather than surgery?

Hi

HUGS

I am very sorry. With ongoing problems with the womb (pyometra) a full spay is the one option where the problem can be removed at once but like with every operation, it is always very much a leap of faith. Nobody can give you any guarantees and there is never any peek ahead.

There is a general shift to rather operate from the back/flanks instead of from the belly; operation techniques evolve and that this is just one such development. It means less of a wound biting/gapping/infection risk. New vets are mainly trained in this method now. Just to put this aspect into its proper perspective.
It is always best to allow your vet to use the method they are happiest with because they will be working faster and more confidently, which can mean a shorter op and less potential problems with GA post-op complications.

Unfortunately, only you can make that decision; it is your privilege as the owner, as much as it can turn into a huge burden of responsilibity. There is no right or wrong whether you want to just live out her life such as it is or whether you want to buy her freedom from her major health problems but with a the chance that it may not come off.

Neither choice is easier. Terminal care has its very own taxing emotional and physical challenges as has a failed op; they are just very different, as I know myself from having gone either way with different piggies over the years.
I would recommend that you sleep on it and then listen to your heart of hearts because that is the way you can make peace easiest in the long term when head and heart eventually come together again after all the soul-searching and feeling paralysed from having to make your decision in blind faith.

You may find the chapter on terminal care in this guide here helpful for weighing up the various pros and cons:

My thoughts are with you. You are a very loving, caring and dedicated owner so this is ever so tough on you having to choose between a rock and a hard place without any guarantees.
 
I unfortunately had to make a similar decision for my angel baby Peaches. She was diagnosed with an inflamed uterus (pyrometra ) 2 years ago now. She had an emergency spay which didn’t go well post op and sadly she passed.

I 100% regret this vet as he was always rough with my pigs. Never did scans and just assumed a diagnosis. I only got a scan as there was a different vet in that caught it. He also sowed her wrong and clipped an organ when doing the spay. I did report but it was all excuses. Obviously, not all vets are like this and I have found amazing vets now that love and cherish my little pigs.

I went to this vet as the RSPCA charity in my city (UK) recommended this vet as he spayed their pigs with a 99% success rate 😒

Spays are 50/50 with pigs as they’re quite fragile little things.

Just know that; whatever you decide will be what’s best for your pig. As long as you have an experienced, attentive vet, you should be good. The pig is probably very lucky to have you as her owner. Always do research on the vets and procedure as well.

Best of luck
 
Thank you @Wiebke and @PipSqueak20 for your kind words and sharing your experiences ❤️ I'm sorry you lost Peaches...

I have decided to not go through with the spay at least for now, and this decision feels like a huge relief. We can try another round of fertagyl next month and I think I'll try to see if cystease can provide some relief for her bladder wall in the mean time.

I am lucky to have found a vet that I have full confidence in. The fact that they said they wouldn't perform the spay themselves because they hadn't had training in the method from the flanks and wanted to give Bonkie the best chances possible only makes me trust them more. And I can completely follow their reasoning for the surgery, but my gut feeling not to do it is just very strong.
 
Thank you @Wiebke and @PipSqueak20 for your kind words and sharing your experiences ❤️ I'm sorry you lost Peaches...

I have decided to not go through with the spay at least for now, and this decision feels like a huge relief. We can try another round of fertagyl next month and I think I'll try to see if cystease can provide some relief for her bladder wall in the mean time.

I am lucky to have found a vet that I have full confidence in. The fact that they said they wouldn't perform the spay themselves because they hadn't had training in the method from the flanks and wanted to give Bonkie the best chances possible only makes me trust them more. And I can completely follow their reasoning for the surgery, but my gut feeling not to do it is just very strong.

Follow your heart because you will be ultimately and for the long term more at peace with yourself if you feel so strongly. There is no right or wrong.

I have had successfully emergency spayed seemingly frail piggies, and they have sailed through it and lived for another 1-3 years but I have decided against an operation on some other cases where it felt better in the whole context (including the social one) to just let them live out their lives. It is a decision you need to make on its own merits every single time.

The crucial step is to listen to yourself and to be totally honest with yourself where your heart truly lies. This will also give you more inner strength to concentrate on making what time is left to share count and to concentrate on the quality of it rather than the length. Your piggy is not aware of your dilemma but they will appreciate the happy todays you share with them, as will you. Any time consciously lived will leave precious memories which stay with you forever.
 
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