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Dental Super Skinny Piggy With A Weird Crunchy Breathing Noise?

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Olivitree

Olivitree

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hey there peeps!

Been a long time, I've lost and gained guinea pigs since I have last posted on here, one very recently and I'm still kicking myself over it, I made silly mistakes. But, I had to think of my remaining guinea and she needed a friend.

So, I adopted Crumble, she's a gorgeous, but nervous Rex, we got her from a rescue and as soon as we got her home, we realised she had problems, I found lice and she also has a weird clicky grunty noise on occasion accompanying her breathing, I rushed her off to the vets the day after i got her, still feeling raw and not prepared to make the same mistakes twice. The vet said the noise wasn't anything to worry about, nothing heard in the chest. and the lice we are dealing with and those are dying off quickly.

I asked about her weight but he said "he wouldn't worry about an 850ish gram guinea pig" However, Crumble is a Rex and from what I checked up they are supposed to be a pretty large breed, bone structure wise she looks as big or bigger than my 1125 gram girl, I can feel her ribs individually and her spine is quiet prominent, none of it is externally visible as her fur is so fuzzy and wiry. Sadly she is currently still separated from Tabby as I'm seriously concerned about this weird crunchy breathing she does occasionally and I want to avoid passing it on to Tabby, it does disappear upon picking her up so its really awkward to try and work out what's going on.

But, my main concern is her weight, I'm going to take her to my usual vet as soon as I can, I haven't got my scales working so I can't see if she is gaining or losing weight at the moment.

Do any of you have any tips, suggestions or warnings about the crunchy breathing and on getting her weight up/reasons it may be down? Her attitude is strange for a herd guinea pig as well, she seems quite calm and even snuggles down almost snoozing on me despite seemingly being on edge, is this due to her lack of fat?
She feels warm(infact her ears are hot right now not sure if that is bad), seems quite sparky and interested in the world and is eating quite a bit drinking more than what I would consider normal but that may be due to how much hard food she is eating, but little and often rather than how Tabby eats which is scoff it all then sleep, but, I dont know her attitude is just so different from other guinea pigs i've had.

From what I gathered she was kept outside with about 10 other guinea pigs, she's quite a nervous guinea, but handles well enough, she doesn't panic unless there are weird noises or people move too quickly. The rescue hadn't had her long before I picked her up so they don't know much more than I do about her condition. She's about 3 or 4 years old

I'm hoping to get her to the vet in the next day or two again but I really want it to be with Jason my regular vet, he just knows guinea pigs so well and picks up on all the tiny things, he's always seemed to be the most knowledgeable vet I've visited.

Any advice on this situation would be amazing, I'm hoping the vet will be able to help me out rather than just brush it off like the last one but I want to get all the info I can and if anyone has experience with this kind of thing I would be very grateful to hear about it!
 
Poor little girl!

Best have the breathing checked again; it may just be a blocked nose. We have got a piggy savvy vet locator on the top bar if needed.
it doesn't sound like the "rescue" you got her from is up to scratch and has ever heard of quarantine, so you may need to conduct your own before you can introduce your piggies, unless your bereaved piggy is pining away acutely and not eating.
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/importance-of-quarantine.108034/

As your new piggy is older, it is likely that she is not going to put weight back on as quickly or as much as a younger one. Hip bones and spine are usually more prominent in older guinea pigs; the best way to check whether she is a good weight for her size is by checking the "heft" around the rib cage.
It is generally better to just put her on a good, nutritionally balanced diet that gives her all she needs than filling her up with empty calories. She may not put on weight quite as quickly, but it is much healthier and better for a longer life.
You may find these threads here helpul:
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk...or-a-balanced-general-guinea-pig-diet.116460/
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk...ng-ideal-weight-overweight-underweight.38805/

You can get cheap scales from any larger supermarket. What is relevant for you is the relative rather than absolute weight (i.e. whether your piggies are putting on weight or losing it between weigh-ins). For this purpose basic scales are perfectly OK.
 
Thanks very much!
I had a feeling her age might have something to do with it, but I think it may be a bit more than that, she did come from a potentially neglect background it sounds like she use to run free outside so I'm not sure how much attention would have been paid to her, but I think she must have been handled a bit as she's not completely terrified all the time.

She is definitely underweight, having felt her ribcage I can very clearly feel each individual rib, but her appetite is promising, I was worried this morning as I fed her last night and not even half the veggies were gone, but she seems to have come out of her hidey box to sit next to me and stuff her face now I've come home. She definitely isn't as veracious as my 5 year old lady though!

Do underweight guineas eat more slowly if they aren't use to so much food? She also seems to be cherry picking carrots, bell pepper, cucumber, fruit and hard food, could this be an indication she's craving food that would get her weight up?

I've also just noticed her droppings seem small and not jelly bean shaped like they should be, how dire is this? From what I've ready, she's not dehydrated unless she isn't processing water properly as she's been drinking plenty of water (is there a too much water mark?) so probably eating less than she should? I have a vet appointment for Tuesday, is that soon enough or should I look at this as more of an emergency and move it closer?


Edit: just cleaned out her bedding so I have a fresh "slate" and put a load of grass and a small handful of dandelion in so I can see how much she poos vs how much she eats.
 
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Olivitree said:
Thanks very much!
I had a feeling her age might have something to do with it, but I think it may be a bit more than that, she did come from a potentially neglect background it sounds like she use to run free outside so I'm not sure how much attention would have been paid to her, but I think she must have been handled a bit as she's not completely terrified all the time.

She is definitely underweight, having felt her ribcage I can very clearly feel each individual rib, but her appetite is promising, I was worried this morning as I fed her last night and not even half the veggies were gone, but she seems to have come out of her hidey box to sit next to me and stuff her face now I've come home. She definitely isn't as veracious as my 5 year old lady though!

Do underweight guineas eat more slowly if they aren't use to so much food? She also seems to be cherry picking carrots, bell pepper, cucumber, fruit and hard food, could this be an indication she's craving food that would get her weight up?

I've also just noticed her droppings seem small and not jelly bean shaped like they should be, how dire is this? From what I've ready, she's not dehydrated unless she isn't processing water properly as she's been drinking plenty of water (is there a too much water mark?) so probably eating less than she should? I have a vet appointment for Tuesday, is that soon enough or should I look at this as more of an emergency and move it closer?


Edit: just cleaned out her bedding so I have a fresh "slate" and put a load of grass and a small handful of dandelion in so I can see how much she poos vs how much she eats.
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Please have her back teeth checked by a piggy savvy vet; the eating symptoms in connection with the weight loss strongly points towards overgrown pre-molars and dental disease. It at all possible, could you get as far as the Cat&Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton where Simon Maddock is probably the best vet for dental problems in the whole country and one of the most experienced guinea pig vets anyway. He works in conjunction with @furryfriends Excellent Adventure Sanctuary, who I am tagging for you.
http://www.catandrabbit.co.uk/
http://www.teasnorthampton.co.uk/

I would very strongly recommend to start topping her up with hand feed. Our guide has recommendations for dental guinea pigs. Your supportive care can make a huge difference. https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/complete-hand-feeding-guide.115359/
 
Wiebke said:
Please have her back teeth checked by a piggy savvy vet; the eating symptoms in connection with the weight loss strongly points towards overgrown pre-molars and dental disease. It at all possible, could you get as far as the Cat&Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton where Simon Maddock is probably the best vet for dental problems in the whole country. He works in conjunction with @furryfriends Excellent Adventure Sanctuary, who I am tagging for you.

I would very strongly recommend to start topping her up with hand feed. Our guide has recommendations for dental guinea pigs. Your supportive care can make a huge difference. https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/complete-hand-feeding-guide.115359/
Click to expand...

I typically go to see Jason Burgess, he specialises in small animals and exotics, he's particularly good with guinea pigs and rabbits. I'll certainly get him to check her teeth but I'm not sure if I can make it as far as northhampton, more worried about her pooing at the moment as she doesn't seem bothered by the process of eating, just seems to stop for long breaks. How long should it typically take between eating and the first poo? (Including the ones she would re-ingest) struggling to find any info on this around the web.
 
Olivitree said:
I typically go to see Jason Burgess, he specialises in small animals and exotics, he's particularly good with guinea pigs and rabbits. I'll certainly get him to check her teeth but I'm not sure if I can make it as far as northhampton, more worried about her pooing at the moment as she doesn't seem bothered by the process of eating, just seems to stop for long breaks. How long should it typically take between eating and the first poo? (Including the ones she would re-ingest) struggling to find any info on this around the web.
Click to expand...

Her poos reflect what food is going in. Depending on how long this has been going on, her guts can have been affected and it may take a day at least to come through. Please start hand feeding and watering immediately. Good that you are planning to have her thoroughly checked over by a specialist vet!
 
Her poos have been smaller than normal since I got her, I took it as stress and not eating enough to begin with. Already mushing up food to hand feed her.

First poo came through, tiny and tear drop shaped, about normal wetness for a poo, doesn't smell bad or look oddly coloured. Shes not showing any signs of bloating or discomfort.

I'll see how had feeding goes, though she is back to eating grass again.

Thanks for being so patient with all my questions and loading me up with advice! Super stressful time when a guinea pig isn't quite right particularly so soon after losing a guinea :(
 
Olivitree said:
Her poos have been smaller than normal since I got her, I took it as stress and not eating enough to begin with. Already mushing up food to hand feed her.

First poo came through, tiny and tear drop shaped, about normal wetness for a poo, doesn't smell bad or look oddly coloured. Shes not showing any signs of bloating or discomfort.

I'll see how had feeding goes, though she is back to eating grass again.

Thanks for being so patient with all my questions and loading me up with advice! Super stressful time when a guinea pig isn't quite right particularly so soon after losing a guinea :(
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HUGS

I know and I really feel for you!

As Crumble is still eating somewhat by herself (which is an encouraging sign) and poos are still coming through. even though they are showing that not much has gone in yesterday or the day before, it is a matter of having her thoroughly checked and see whether there is an underlying issue or not. The stress of moving home may have made things worse.
 
She is taking to hand feeding really well, for her history I'm really surprised, I dont have to hold her face or anything, after one syringe full where she just sat there letting me put it in her mouth and put a little in at a time now she's chewing on it to get more. I really hope it isn't teeth problems I'm terrified of having guinea pigs put under, one of my first boars when I was really young went to get his teeth sorted and never recovered from the aesthetic. She's happily munching grass again and having a good groom after 4mls of mooshed up food and half a ml of water when she didn't fancy any more from the syringe. There are poos in the cage and they look a little bigger! Feeling encouraged, but I wont get too excited until she's got a bit more podge on her and her poos are a good size.
I'll be much happier once I've seen the vet and can hopefully rule out some things and maybe give me a more definite answer as to whats going on.
 
Olivitree said:
She is taking to hand feeding really well, for her history I'm really surprised, I dont have to hold her face or anything, after one syringe full where she just sat there letting me put it in her mouth and put a little in at a time now she's chewing on it to get more. I really hope it isn't teeth problems I'm terrified of having guinea pigs put under, one of my first boars when I was really young went to get his teeth sorted and never recovered from the aesthetic. She's happily munching grass again and having a good groom after 4mls of mooshed up food and half a ml of water when she didn't fancy any more from the syringe. There are poos in the cage and they look a little bigger! Feeling encouraged, but I wont get too excited until she's got a bit more podge on her and her poos are a good size.
I'll be much happier once I've seen the vet and can hopefully rule out some things and maybe give me a more definite answer as to whats going on.
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It was with her age in mind that I recommended Simon Maddock for dentals, as he is one of the few vet who will use anaesthetics only where absolutely necessary and as little as possible. Just see what is the matter with her first, but great that she is really keen on hand feed!
 
Wiebke has given you fantastic advice & if you can get her to Simon that would be great, as he really does know what he's doing as far as teeth are concerned! We could probably arrange a piggy train to get her from you down there is you are interested then you need to contact Stewybus who organises them & Debbie (Furryfriends) who Wiebke has already alerted to this thread. Both Wiebke & I have had/got Rex/Teddy piggies & yes they are usually porky pigs :) Daisy in my avatar is about 1.25 kg right now & her mum Petal is about 1.35 kg on a bad day lol :) Topping up her food by syringe feeding softened pellets or Critical Care/Recovery would help & monitoring poo output until you get her teeth looked at will help. Rexes by nature seem to be more laid back & easy to handle from the 4 I have had over the years, I have had Aby pigs who are pigs on springs in comparison! The breathing could be tooth related & needs investigating, or possibly could relate to heart problems. That would need an x-ray which Simon can do without anaesthetic I believe.
 
We have had fantastic success here with dental piggies due to Simon being able to, in most cases, do dental work without the need for GA. He sees guinea pigs from all over the UK. It does sound dental, in that you say she takes the syringe food so well and seems really hungry. Often dental piggies can have noisy breathing due to food getting lodged at the back of the mouth which happens when teeth are overgrown. I do offer temporary places here at the sanctuary, to enable piggies to get treatment from Simon and supportive care from myself. xx
 
I think it may definitely be dental, I put some fresh hay in and sat down to watch her properly to see what she would do with it today, she picked up a lot of bits then dropped them again and digging through it, her strange crunchy noise started up particularly badly the second I put the hay in. rather worryingly I think she's started depending on the hand feeding I'm doing as she's cut her eating back even further but is still very keen on the hand feeding.

Is it worth just cancelling the vet appointment with my usual vet and getting her over to Northampton or would it be a reasonable idea to chat to my vet first anyway so I can get an idea on how he'd handle the situation to avoid a stressful journey for Crumble if he does it a similar way that Simon would? I don't suppose anyone would know the rough price bracket for getting her teeth done if that is the problem so I can make sure I have the cash for it ready? (would be surprised/horrified if it cost more than I can afford at the moment, but worth having the info on hand)
 
Olivitree said:
I think it may definitely be dental, I put some fresh hay in and sat down to watch her properly to see what she would do with it today, she picked up a lot of bits then dropped them again and digging through it, her strange crunchy noise started up particularly badly the second I put the hay in. rather worryingly I think she's started depending on the hand feeding I'm doing as she's cut her eating back even further but is still very keen on the hand feeding.

Is it worth just cancelling the vet appointment with my usual vet and getting her over to Northampton or would it be a reasonable idea to chat to my vet first anyway so I can get an idea on how he'd handle the situation to avoid a stressful journey for Crumble if he does it a similar way that Simon would? I don't suppose anyone would know the rough price bracket for getting her teeth done if that is the problem so I can make sure I have the cash for it ready? (would be surprised/horrified if it cost more than I can afford at the moment, but worth having the info on hand)
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You can always ring up and ask the clinic for their fees. I would strongly recommend to book an appointment with Simon; it is well worth the stress of the trip! There are not many vets in this country that are experienced with guinea pig dentals. :(
 
I totally agree with Wiebke, Simon really is the best vet for dentals, I've just taken some piggies up to Doncaster today that were succedsfully treated by Simon & took one back part of the way down to Furryfriend's to have treatment at Simon's next week. This shows you how successful he is at treatments when guinea pig owners will send their pets down the length of the country to get them to him :) Personally I wouldn't risk seeing another vet first, you could end up doubling your costs when just seeing Simon is all you need to do to get your little guy sorted :)
 
I think dental may have become a secondary concern for a moment, the crunchy breathing hasn't stopped like it normally does and her breathing has become quite heavy (sides visibly rising and falling and head bobbing with each breath) I don't know if I'm just panicking over a stuffy nose due to still being on edge from my last guinea or not but seriously considering taking her in tonight. I need to pick my partner up right now but I'll probably be calling the vet as soon as I get back (probably about 30 mins to an hour) wise decision or am I just being easily worried? (will probably call vets regardless of responses to be honest. I am not a happy guinea mum about these developments!)
 
If you are worried I would get her seen tonight. Ask the vet to listen to her chest and if there is any fluid she will need a diuretic to clear it. If her nose is stuffy she may need a product called Bisolvon which clears mucous. It is possible that if she has dental issues she has become run down and is therefore more susceptible to respiratory infections. She may even have aspirated some food if she is struggling to eat. I would also ask the vet to check her heart.

Still follow up with an appointment with Simon though if you can.
 
crumble is with the vet now, on oxygen and antibiotics, going to have an xray to check for tumours as one lung sounds really bad, kidneys also not quite right. All this missed by the first vet, absolutely gutted. Should have gone with my usual instinct which is ALWAYS use Jason Burgess.
 
She didn't make it, we had to make the sad decision to put her to sleep this morning, her lungs were filling with fluid and breathing was suddenly becoming a real task for her, she wasn't responding to treatment and was rapidly going down hill, the vets said there was nothing more they could really do and I didn't want to see her suffocate to death. Absolutely devastated, but I'm glad I got to give her a week of a warmth, low stress, snuggles and one to one care rather than her dying in a rescue where her symptoms hadn't even been noticed. Absolutely stunning and great tempered pig, I'm so sad I didn't have the time with her to get to know her better and see her flourish in a friendship with Tabby.

Thank you everybody for your support and advice I really appreciated all of it, it's so fantastic to have a community here to ask for help.
 
I've just read your thread, I am so sorry for your loss, she was luckly to have received all your love and care in her last week, big hugs x
 
I have just read the whole thread, I'm so sorry for your loss. :hug:Please don't feel guilty, this is not your fault in any way, it is entirely the fault of that terrible rescue. Even if you took her to your usual vet straight away, considering how bad her condition was I don't think she would have had much of a chance anyway. You gave her the love and care she deserved in the last few days of her life, which the rescue will not have provided. If you hadn't adopted her, chances are she would still be alive, suffering unnoticed in that awful disgrace of a rescue. She could have suffered for several more days, even weeks, until finally passing due to her lungs entirely (or almost entirely) filling up with fluid. That would be quite a painful way to go. Because of you, she was able to pass peacefully and relatively pain-free.

Sadly some rescues know absolutely nothing about guinea pigs, let alone other animals. They should not be allowed to rescue animals.

Popcorn free, gorgeous little Crumble. :bye: xx
 
I am so sorry for your loss :( It soubds like it may have possibly been pneumonia which is very very hard to treat successfully & usually the outcome isn't good :( I am so sorry x
 
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