Trying Again Tomorrow!.......

Storm1974

Storm1974

Junior Guinea Pig
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So, after a failed attempt at bonding (Because we stupidly didn't do it in a neutral enough territory the first time!) our recently bereaved Bramble, with Herbie Herbert, a week and three days ago, we are going to try again tomorrow in a TOTALLY neutral cage! They've been living side by side in separate cages since the failed bond and, after the initial teeth chattering for the first few hours, they have 'seemed' totally fine with each other living side by side, with only the odd rumble from Bramble (and lots of bar chewing from Herbie as if he's constantly trying to get Bramble's attention, but not 'seemingly' in an aggressive way!) and no other 'obvious' signs of aggression from either of them. But it's very awkward space wise for us, and ideally we'd like them to be living together, so tomorrow we're trying again.

We know that it might fail because of the first time, but we've got to try just once, and do it right this time!

So, please wish us LOTS of luck! Otherwise they will probably just be living side by side for ever, which will be a shame, especially as both the boys are only around 9 months old. 😟
 
I really hope they want to live together. Come on Bramble and Herbie Herbert play nicely. 🤞🏻🤞🏻
 
I realised, in the night, as I lay awake thinking about today (As you do!), that the TOTALLY new 'cage' that we are going to use today, probably isn't going to be that suitable to introduce them in! 😕 The reason is, because it's actually our new outdoor run that we bought recently and it will have a lid on it (Because it's a run, not a cage!) and we didn't really consider this aspect of it, because we just thought "we can't afford to buy another cage, so we will use what we have, that has never been used by either pig before", so we decided on the outdoor run. Problem is, if they start fighting it will be very hard to separate them if there's only a side entrance or something, to get them out of. We don't know exactly how this run opens, we just know it's big so thought it would have been good to use, without really considering how large/accessible the opening is!

So, our only other option is to use the smaller pen that we put them in (Separately) while we clean their cage. Obviously this won't be entirely neutral, so would it be better if we tried to put this pen into our bedroom (It would have to be on the bed, because there's no floor space around the bed - it's not a large room) to introduce them, or do you think it would be ok to just introduce them in the pen, in their usual room, or on the kitchen floor? Our place is so small it's really hard to find space to do these things! 😟

I do wonder if we should just try to forget about getting them to live together in the same cage, because although it would be a lot better for us (Space wise), they do 'seem' quite happy living side by side, though sometimes it does also 'seem' like they really want to be in the same cage......😕😕
 
What is the outdoor run?

Most wooden runs have hinged lids so can very easily be opened/left open during the bonding.

Metal runs usually do only have side doors which makes using them very hard anyway (I’d personally always avoid them for that reason but also because they aren’t always sturdy).

The room you do it in doesn’t actually matter - it can be the room they normally live in given they are caged (The only time you can’t do it in the room they/the original pig live in is if they free roam so the entire room will be seen as territory).
The important part is that you do not do it in their cage/normal territory.
 
Piggies&buns said:
What is the outdoor run?

Most wooden runs have hinged lids so can very easily be opened/left open during the bonding.

Metal runs usually do only have side doors which makes using them very hard anyway (I’d personally always avoid them for that reason but also because they aren’t always sturdy).

The room you do it in doesn’t actually matter - it can be the room they normally live in given they are caged (The only time you can’t do it in the room they/the original pig live in is if they free roam so the entire room will be seen as territory).
The important part is that you do not do it in their cage/normal territory.
Click to expand...

Yes it is a metal run..... 😕

1.8m Pet Rabbit Run Play Pen Guinea Pig Playpen Chicken Puppy Cage Hutch UKDC.. | eBay
 
Storm1974 said:
Yes it is a metal run..... 😕

1.8m Pet Rabbit Run Play Pen Guinea Pig Playpen Chicken Puppy Cage Hutch UKDC.. | eBay
Click to expand...


Unfortunately they aren’t all that great. You will need to use plenty of tent pegs to secure to the ground outside (might be problematic if your ground gets hard and dry in summer) as they don’t tend to have the weight/security to them that wooden ones do.

Catching them from it is probably going to be quite hard. I’d certainly not want to bond in it particularly given things didn’t go well between them last time.
 
Don't give up if it can work it's best for them. How about thoroughly cleaning one of your cages whilst one is in the run use vinegar, deodorising safe spray etc to eliminate any scents? Good luck 🤞
 
CTWC said:
Don't give up if it can work it's best for them. How about thoroughly cleaning one of your cages whilst one is in the run use vinegar, deodorising safe spray etc to eliminate any scents? Good luck 🤞
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This is what we did initially, when it didn't work..

I have a feeling that it was because Bramble still knew it was 'his' cage and that he was kind of shocked to see a totally strange male piggie in 'his' cage, so that's why he went crazy!
 
:agr:


Yes, bonding always needs to be done in neutral territory and not in the cage belonging to one piggy, whether it’s cleaned out or not. It’s still his territory.
It may still be that they simply aren’t compatible and no matter where you do the bonding it could fail but being in his cage initially won’t have helped matters
 
Could you make your kitchen floor area guinea safe? Just for bonding there was someone the other week who used a hallway area so the three sides were already closed off because of the walls 🤔
 
CTWC said:
Could you make your kitchen floor area guinea safe? Just for bonding there was someone the other week who used a hallway area so the three sides were already closed off because of the walls 🤔
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No, we are going to use the play pen.

Thanks anyway. 🤞
 
Piggies&buns said:
:agr:


Yes, bonding always needs to be done in neutral territory and not in the cage belonging to one piggy, whether it’s cleaned out or not. It’s still his territory.
It may still be that they simply aren’t compatible and no matter where you do the bonding it could fail but being in his cage initially won’t have helped matters
Click to expand...
Yes we have really considered this may be the case, even though they have lived together peacefully, side by side, for over a week now.
It's a totally different matter when they are actually in the same cage together.

Bramble ignores Herbie Herbert most of the time and when he does give him attention, it's not aggressive.
 
Storm1974 said:
Yes we have really considered this may be the case, even though they have lived together peacefully, side by side, for over a week now.
It's a totally different matter when they are actually in the same cage together.
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Yes it is different. My two separated boys live very happily side by side now but fought viciously previously (hence their separation).

Keep us posted on how it goes.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Yes it is different. My two separated boys live very happily side by side now but fought viciously previously (hence their separation).

Keep us posted on how it goes.
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Yes, that often happens, doesn't it.

It's actually made things better (For us) this morning, because my OH realised for the first time, that he doesn't actually have to move Herbie Herberts' cage off of the table and onto the floor, just to spot clean Brambles cage (Which is behind Herbies). So that's good, at least, if it doesn't work out with them!
 
Good luck!

Could you bond in a shower cubicle/bath? Or one of those cheap toddler paddling pools?
 
Ok, so we've just tried it and it didn't work! 😥

Within seconds of being in the pen, Herbie was teeth chattering, Bramble started rumbling (Which we know is normal) and then Herbie walked away. Bramble started to try and eat hay, but Herbie was so wound up, constantly teeth chattering, both had hair up and there was a little bit of hissing. Then they started the fur ball fight! So we had to throw the towel in (Literally) and I removed Bramble into the kitchen and held him, trying to calm him down, and they both carried on teeth chattering for a couple of minutes.

They're both back in their own cages now and while there was a bit more teeth chattering from Herbie through the bars, at Bramble, they have now both calmed down and Herbie is relaxing in his bed while Bramble is eating his hay. We kept Herbie on the floor in the pen for a few more minutes and then he started wheeking suddenly when my OH opened a plastic bag filled with their covers, because we needed to change Herbies bed, and Bramble started copying him as if in reply. So I do think they benefit from being near to each other and being able to communicate, but they just can't get on in the same territory. Maybe this is because of the first time when we made a bit of a mistake and so have ruined it for them, but I really do hope not! 😔 At least it will be a lesson learnt though, if that is, sadly the case. When we got Herbie from the rescue though, it was because his past owner (A breeder) had 'apparently' given him up because she couldn't bond him with any of her pigs, so maybe he is a problem pig to bond with any other, apart from females. We kind of didn't believe that story because Herbie is a Californian breed, but doesn't have any markings, he is just white. So we thought it 'may' have been because she couldn't sell him or breed from him, because he was pure white, but maybe that wasn't the case after all.

Anyway, the next big issue now, is trying to tame Herbie, because he was very difficult to catch AND hold. When we did manage to catch him in his cuddle cup and I took him out to stroke him, he was very wriggly and kept constantly headbutting my hand while I was trying to stroke him, (He had calmed down quite a bit after the failed intros, and was eating hay, so it probably wasn't because of that!) and so I had to put him back in his cage and he's been like this the (Very few) times we have tried to catch him, and hold him. He's going to need his nails cut soon as well! 😱😱
 
I've got 4 singles living as 2 pairs. I feel rather than not like each other it's more a question of trust sometimes. One pair lived together for 2.5 years before they fell out. The other 2 have never lived with another guinea pig as so are difficult to bond after many tries for them both living next to each other is a compromise that they seem happy with.
 
Piggies&buns said:
They still need interaction and companionship but the issue is that they cannot share a territory - so obviously living side by side solves that.
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piggieminder said:
I've got 4 singles living as 2 pairs. I feel rather than not like each other it's more a question of trust sometimes. One pair lived together for 2.5 years before they fell out. The other 2 have never lived with another guinea pig as so are difficult to bond after many tries for them both living next to each other is a compromise that they seem happy with.
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I would like to try and get at least Bramble another friend, at some point. He used to live fine with his brother until he died, though Bramble was always the 'underpig' with his brother, who was dominant but fair.

I don't believe Herbie has ever lived with another pig and maybe he does only like females, but that would mean that we'd have to get him neutered and that is a big risk with anesthetic. Also, at the moment, we don't have the room.
 
If you can't do the nails yourself there's no shame in getting it done at the vets. For multiple reasons I take my boys.
If he doesn't like head strokes (headbutting you), will he let you give him a chin rub? If you find the "sweet spot" some piggies (Mischievous Master Boris) can be almost hypnotised by this.
 
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