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Twinkle Died On The Operating Table....

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Vandamf

Vandamf

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hurting, , angry with myself and vet, and need advise before I blow my top in the general direction of the "responsible" "vet"

Twinkle had an abcess develop in her, quite large, dewlap. It was well defined, mobile and not attached. Not involved with teeth.

My lovely pig friendly lady vet suggest the best course was a light anaesthetic to explore and drain. Forward 5 hours and I get a call from an irish"trained" vet ( I have an issue with irish vet training) asking me to call the surgery. She started describing what they found, and that the abcess was quite "deep" and involved with tissues in the neck and then matter of factly said " and then she died" . She went on to say "well she was old" " and we did say there was an increased risk" which just made my blood boil

My issues are
1. I handed Twinkle to her care, not some giant ham fisted oaf that I only know from his (poor) reputation
2. Twinkle was a robust 1.3kg very happy pig, not a weakly old crone so dont fob me off with the all too easy " bad reaction to the anaesthetic" line
3. The plan was to drain and treat, not hack arround and remove half her throat (and ALL of her dewlap fat)
4. I brought her body home and opened the sutures. Despite being told to the contrary there was a LOT of blood. Dead animals dont bleed do they? It was un coagulated, is that normal?
5. Most perplexing was there were few stuctures left in her neck. It had been cleared right down to the trachea. No fat, no thymus no blood vessels. It looked like a classroom disection. I'm sure theyll say they tidied it up to give her back to me, but what the hell was he doing that deep. The trauma to the vagal nerve would be enough to stop the heart wouldnt it?

If any one with some medial knowledge could share before he calls me tomorrow id appreciate it. It was supposed to be drained !

I feel I've let her down very badly, very badly indeed. I should never have taken her. happy little pig this morning to this...aw god, I could kick his knee caps right now
 
I am so very sorry to hear this. This was not your fault you left her with a vet you trusted and deserve an explanation from her at least as to why someone else operated and why things went so wrong. Sorry I can't help over medical details but I'm sure someone who can will soon.
 
So sorry you have lost your baby.I understand your anger completely.Have no medical knowledge but just wanted to give you a virtual hug
 
BIG HUGS

I am so very sorry! It is always so upsetting when a beloved one dies in an operation, but even more so when it is a botch job. I am sure that you will put in a written complaint!

It is my understanding that whether you marsupialise/drain an abscess or decide to operate it out as it is depends on how close to the skin it is and whether it can be safely removed.

RIP Twinkle
 
I am ever so sorry this has happened! If you are wanting to take this further, you will need photographic evidence of her surgery site before you take her back to them. She will need to be stored in the practices chiller to preserve her little body. I am sure you can report the vet in question to the rcvs for it to be taken further.

I am so sorry again xx
 
Ive taken photos and have her (sealed and hygenically) stored in the fridge , much to my sons disgust, while I think what to do and wait to hear from the vet concerned. I hope he found his afternoon off today relaxing!

I'm not one for sueing or reporting generally, afterall it wont bring twinkle back. BUt they need to be a bit more open about what happened, sharpen up their practice and for g8ds sake dont let that man anywhere near a guinea pig as he clearly doesnt know what hes doing. Telling was the hushed silence and sideways glances from the practice staff as I waited to collect her.....

They want to guess where I'm going to stuff their £80 (yes, £80) bill.

Wiebke, do you mean a more superficial abcess would be surgically removed whereas a "deeper" one would be a candidate for marsupial/ draining?

Thanks for you well wishes. Still feeling a bit bereft

V
 
I am so so sorry that this has happened. RIP Twinkle. Hugest hugs to you x
 
Butter Cup said:
I'm so sorry that happened to Twinkle.
Are you going to sue?
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I doubt it. Less than 20% of complaints progress to hearing. Word of mouth is a powerful tool tho in a village setting .....
I'm sure they could argue a defense against any thing id say and just trot out the "increased anaesthetic risk in older gps" line. Its an easy smoke screen.

I'm quite good at strongly worded letters though. I'll wait and see what hes got to say for his sorry, badly trained bones tomorrow
 
I'm so sorry. I don't have anything to add but I think you at least need to make a complaint and see how they respond. Sweet dreams angel.
 
Have spoken to the vet and got the standard anesthetic risk platitude initially. I pointed out that potentiol for aneasthetic risk or no, no animal would fare well with the extreme invasive procedure he performed, that this was an otherwise healthy pig with a first presentation of absess and that a more conservative approach would be indicated and that he didnt consult with me and I did not give permission for invasive (unsuvivable) surgery.
He said flushing abcesses "never works" and that in his opinion surgery was her best option. I told him what I thought of his opinion and that it was the reason I would not have trusted twinkle to his care. He said he had consulted with the lady vet I first saw and thought surgical removal was what I wanted !
I reinterated that at the initial consultation what I had agreed to was a light anaesthetic to drain or remove if superficial as the abcess was well subscribed and mobile. He said the abcess was extensive with roots to the jaw which would implicate teeth and as I know that would have a poor prognosis any way. I asked if he had checked teeth - he hadnt. ( by now I think he is winging it)

He said that in any event these abcesses "Always return" and the chances werent good to which I responded that he gave her no chance at all with the route he took. He said sorry for the outcome and if I felt there had been "a breakdown in communication" (understatement) for my part I expressed no confidence in his knowlege or skill and that acted outside of my consent. I also asked that he does not operate on anyone elses guinea pig as he clearly does not have the experience. I said I would put all this in writing to the partners ( of which he is one) to make it a matter of record.

So where does that get us? precisely no where. I still have a dead guinea pig. Ive no doubt I will still get the bill and a resolve never to darken their door again.
Twinkle doesnt have that option

I still want to kick his kneecaps
 
You can contact the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons (RCVS) if you think it's appropriate.

I'm so sorry that you had to experience dealing with a poor vet. I've had the same and it's really an awful experience.
 
Thanks, but I really dont think that would fly. Its his veterinary opinion against my owners opinion. It would be more anguish for naught and I really need to start to feel better soon and move past this.

Feel pants atm. Hard to explian to any one how loosing a guinea pig, what ever the circumstances can make you feel so down. As my son said, youve got four others what you worried about. But then he is a crass and callow youth x
 
Vandamf said:
Have spoken to the vet and got the standard anesthetic risk platitude initially. I pointed out that potentiol for aneasthetic risk or no, no animal would fare well with the extreme invasive procedure he performed, that this was an otherwise healthy pig with a first presentation of absess and that a more conservative approach would be indicated and that he didnt consult with me and I did not give permission for invasive (unsuvivable) surgery.
He said flushing abcesses "never works" and that in his opinion surgery was her best option. I told him what I thought of his opinion and that it was the reason I would not have trusted twinkle to his care. He said he had consulted with the lady vet I first saw and thought surgical removal was what I wanted !
I reinterated that at the initial consultation what I had agreed to was a light anaesthetic to drain or remove if superficial as the abcess was well subscribed and mobile. He said the abcess was extensive with roots to the jaw which would implicate teeth and as I know that would have a poor prognosis any way. I asked if he had checked teeth - he hadnt. ( by now I think he is winging it)

He said that in any event these abcesses "Always return" and the chances werent good to which I responded that he gave her no chance at all with the route he took. He said sorry for the outcome and if I felt there had been "a breakdown in communication" (understatement) for my part I expressed no confidence in his knowlege or skill and that acted outside of my consent. I also asked that he does not operate on anyone elses guinea pig as he clearly does not have the experience. I said I would put all this in writing to the partners ( of which he is one) to make it a matter of record.

So where does that get us? precisely no where. I still have a dead guinea pig. Ive no doubt I will still get the bill and a resolve never to darken their door again.
Twinkle doesnt have that option

I still want to kick his kneecaps
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You could always refuse to pay the bill and say you will see him in court where you can call into question his ability to practise. Its what I would do, but I am a Credit Manager and accustomed to legal action.
 
You have real courage @Vandamf - confronting this man. Many others wouldn't.

I'm with @karonus. I would hold back on payment of the bill. The worst they could do is take it to court - and you could argue your case. The value is so low that even if they won they would not get any legal costs paid. Which means it would be time consuming and costly for them.

Twinkle was a much loved family member. Don't feel embarrassed to grieve her. It's what she deserves. Hugs x
 
I'm so sorry for your loss,I would take this further to prevent unexperienced vets pratising on cavies.i agree with koronus and vicki.this kind of practise would negligence if it was a human being.Ive enountered vets whom have big egos,but this is bad practise.
 
She was part of the family.I still miss all my past guinea pigs, rats, dogs, gerbils and hamsters.They all hold a place in my heart
 
Such a sad story, horrific for him to have made such a mess of things and it sounds like he had absolutely no right to. And how unapologetic too. I'm so sad to hear that you went through this. Please look after yourself and take your time to grieve Twinkle's passing. Take action against him if you feel you can to stop him being able to operate on guinea pigs, and you should not be expected to pay for this "treatment" but if you decide you have to move on for your own sake and not take action then no one can blame you, I'm so sorry for your loss. Hugs. <3
 
Gosh I am so so sorry you've had to endure this! :eek:
What an absolutely horrific thing for you to have to go through, I lost my dear Cash on the operating table under the hands of a highly experienced vet who did all she could and that was heartbreaking enough ... but what you have gone through is something else entirely.

They should have contacted you before going through with anything you had not already discussed or agreed with them!

I can understand if you wouldn't want to put yourself through any more trauma but this really is terrible and at the very least you shouldn't have to pay for the "treatment" poor Twinkle received.

My thoughts are with you x
 
Vandamf said:
Thanks, but I really dont think that would fly. Its his veterinary opinion against my owners opinion. It would be more anguish for naught and I really need to start to feel better soon and move past this.

Feel pants atm. Hard to explian to any one how loosing a guinea pig, what ever the circumstances can make you feel so down. As my son said, youve got four others what you worried about. But then he is a crass and callow youth x
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I'm so sorry that Twinkle died and in such sad circumstances. This struck a chord with me though, yes it is just your opinion as an owner, but there may be other complaints/issues and his poor management of Twinkle becomes part of a jigsaw. This depends on what you feel you need to do though, if you want to move on and let it rest then that is perfectly valid.
 
I'm really sorry you had to go through this. Some people treating animals and humans should have a little more of empathy...
Sending you big hugs lovely x
 
Vandamf said:
Ive taken photos and have her (sealed and hygenically) stored in the fridge , much to my sons disgust, while I think what to do and wait to hear from the vet concerned. I hope he found his afternoon off today relaxing!

I'm not one for sueing or reporting generally, afterall it wont bring twinkle back. BUt they need to be a bit more open about what happened, sharpen up their practice and for g8ds sake dont let that man anywhere near a guinea pig as he clearly doesnt know what hes doing. Telling was the hushed silence and sideways glances from the practice staff as I waited to collect her.....

They want to guess where I'm going to stuff their £80 (yes, £80) bill.

Wiebke, do you mean a more superficial abcess would be surgically removed whereas a "deeper" one would be a candidate for marsupial/ draining?

Thanks for you well wishes. Still feeling a bit bereft

V
Click to expand...

No. it is the other way round - a deep abscess can be operated our in one peace whereas a superficial one would leave too big a hole if it was removed with any skin attached and needs to be therefore left for draining.

I am very sorry for your upsetting experience, having lost guinea pig in operations myself, especially in the early years. :(
 
Tbag said:
They should have contacted you before going through with anything you had not already discussed or agreed with them!
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This exactly. I would also be interested to know why her care was passed over to a different vet without your knowledge. It's good practice to keep clients informed IMO, bad practice to take decisions without asking you first.
I doubt you will get anywhere with the surgery if he is one of the partners but I think you should definitely put in a complaint about this. Will you be changing vets?

I'm very sorry for your loss :(
 
Twinkle was the only one of my animals registered with this vet ( complicated reasons) but it was handy as they were a huge practice with 24 Hr. Cover. I will not be going again

They sent me a sympathy card which was a bit hard to swallow.......
 
Just to let you know that you can raise a concern with the rcvs and they collect facts from all parties. They will send you lots of information to advise what constitutes malpractice and how the concern will be dealt with. If they feel things aren't right then the matter goes to a panel for further consideration and that involves an impartial vet. It is all about whether the animal's welfare has been compromised. No action will bring Twinkle back and you will not get compensation but if you want the truth about what treatment should have been given or action to be taken against the vet by the rcvs then it may be worth investigating. I went through this process when my cat died after a routine dental. I must say it was very thoroughly investigated as the rcvs has to protect its reputation. I also wanted to put my mind at rest that I had done as much as I could for my cat. No action was taken against the vet ( it was complicated by an undetectable problem with my cats heart) but the vet was advised to keep better records and I am sure it made him aware that his actions can be scrutinised. Actually I didn't want him struck off - I just wanted the truth. I am very sorry to hear of your heartbreaking loss. RIP Twinkle x
 
I'm really sorry to hear this. It was tragic when my dog died. I know how your feeling. Please don't be angry with yourself it's not your fault, you were trying to help Twinkle not harm him. Hugs!
 
I'm so sorry for your loss. I would also be livid with the situation. Even in a good outcome I would be upset if the vet that I consulted with was not the vet performing the surgery, let alone with a bad outcome. ((HUGS)) to you, and I'm so sorry.
 
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